Global Warming or Global Cooling?

[Korgeta]

Let me explain, to me there are two flaws with the name of global warming. The first is that despite the threat we hear from politicians and environmentalists about the world heating up the first thing many will think and keep with is SO WHAT? In the UK last year for example everyone had wonderful scorching summers, record temperatures. This was linked to global warming and was used as a tag by the media making the concept of global warming something not to be feared or worried and if you had wonderful weather because people say it's by global warming then are you going to say it's a bad thing? The second point is that global warming has been tagged many times with quote claiming it would be the start of something sudden and drastic for years on. For example Dr David Viner of the climate research unite said at 2000 that snow would be:

'a very rare and exciting event' in Britain in the coming years.

Forward to 2009-10 and I am sick to death of three weeks of constant snow piling up two feet outside my house, if this was a rare occurrence then it was something given it has been the coldest weather for 30yrs.

Then we do have the claims of late about climate temperatures being manipulated that overshadowed Copenhagen. It's not that global warming is flimsy evidence, the world has heated up at times but it has also cooled down. The world is quite turbulent, but despite claims the world is heating up, the warmest point in recent years has not been 2008 but 1998. Though Is global warming a poor way to term and illustrate the problem? Just as the 'black hole' gives the idea that the black hole is a one dimensional universal drain that sucks in via one way?

Of course global warming neglects one aspect. Global cooling.

Global Cooling or the Ocean Cycle Theory differs from global warming in that the cause of it cannot be blamed on man because the basis of manmade pollution is that we are contributing global warming by not cooling it. Instead the warmth and cooling of the planet is down to the ocean cycles and not directly of carbon emissions. There seems to be evidence pointing to global cooling. 1915-1940 the world enjoys a 25yryr warm period. Late 40's to 70's witness a drop in temperatures. 1980-2007 the world begins to heat up, at this moment the belief of global warming is occurring and will continue to occur.

It's a question of what you believe, or what is likely to be the case, could global warming itself just be a theory with more scaremongering then facts?

I'll let you all debate on this.

[Thanas]

Let me ask you a question in return:

Are you an idiot?

[Korgeta]

Ouch, too good for a private message was it. Ok I apolgise for basing this out of the BBC link here

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8299079.stm

And a few other newspapers talking about global warming, climate change and global cooling. Again am sorry for bringing in a subject that was going to hurt your brain cells.

[SirNitram]

Ah, a retard convinced there's still some kind of argument or discussion on the subject.

A handy graph for consultation.

From Nasa

Doesn't look like there's anything but warming, huh?

As for the scientific consensus, the lowest scores were by.. Petroleum Geologists and meterologists. Let's see, one of those has a direct monetary interest in opposing it!

Of course, climatologists, the people who study the matter, see it as happening at.. 97%. Wow!

In short: You are a worthless sack of trolldung. Please walk on.

[Sinewmire]

The "global cooling" effect, as you call it, in the Uk is caused by interference to the gulf stream, a consequence of the melting icecaps, isn't it?

England is on a similar longitude/latitude to Canada and Norway, remember.

I appreciate "some geography lecture I half remember from several years ago" isn't exactly an accredited scientific source. I'd love to hear from someone who knows more about this than me.

[Guardsman Bass]

Let me explain, to me there are two flaws with the name of global warming. The first is that despite the threat we hear from politicians and environmentalists about the world heating up the first thing many will think and keep with is SO WHAT? In the UK last year for example everyone had wonderful scorching summers, record temperatures. This was linked to global warming and was used as a tag by the media making the concept of global warming something not to be feared or worried and if you had wonderful weather because people say it's by global warming then are you going to say it's a bad thing? The second point is that global warming has been tagged many times with quote claiming it would be the start of something sudden and drastic for years on. For example Dr David Viner of the climate research unite said at 2000 that snow would be:

'a very rare and exciting event' in Britain in the coming years.

So you're taking an off-the-cuff remark by a climate scientist as some literal proof? You are an idiot. It's all about the trends in global mean temperature rise (which itself conceals a wide variety of local climactic changes), and if you look at the data, at least seven of the ten years in the 2000s were among the top ten hottest years on record.

Forward to 2009-10 and I am sick to death of three weeks of constant snow piling up two feet outside my house, if this was a rare occurrence then it was something given it has been the coldest weather for 30yrs.

There's such thing as climactic variety. Again, the key word is "trend".

Then we do have the claims of late about climate temperatures being manipulated that overshadowed Copenhagen. It's not that global warming is flimsy evidence, the world has heated up at times but it has also cooled down. The world is quite turbulent, but despite claims the world is heating up, the warmest point in recent years has not been 2008 but 1998. Though Is global warming a poor way to term and illustrate the problem? Just as the 'black hole' gives the idea that the black hole is a one dimensional universal drain that sucks in via one way?

Aside from the fact that the above may not be correct (if I recall correctly, the "hottest 1998" bit comes from one set of data, and may be contradicted by others), as I pointed out, the trend is towards higher temperatures. Again, seven of the ten years from 2000-2009 were in the top ten hottest years on record.

Global Cooling or the Ocean Cycle Theory differs from global warming in that the cause of it cannot be blamed on man because the basis of manmade pollution is that we are contributing global warming by not cooling it. Instead the warmth and cooling of the planet is down to the ocean cycles and not directly of carbon emissions. There seems to be evidence pointing to global cooling. 1915-1940 the world enjoys a 25yryr warm period. Late 40's to 70's witness a drop in temperatures. 1980-2007 the world begins to heat up, at this moment the belief of global warming is occurring and will continue to occur.

If you actually bothered to read up on what the climate scientists themselves are saying instead of just re-posting bullshit, then you would know that they actually have a good idea why there was a drop from the 1940s to the 1970s. It involves the cutback on aerosols being emitted by industry and society into the air as part of anti-pollution actions.

It's a question of what you believe, or what is likely to be the case, could global warming itself just be a theory with more scaremongering then facts?

I'll let you all debate on this.

We've debated about this countless times.

[J]

Sunspots people, sunspots. We're freezing our butts off due to a lack of sunspots.
At least, that's what the latest crackpot theory going around claims.

[FSTargetDrone]

Forget telling the general public about "trends." Idiot newsreaders and scientifically-illiterate mouth-breathers around the watercooler look at each other with a smirk and say, "Global warming? There's 2 feet of snow out there! What do scientists know!"

[weemadando]

SNIP

Yes fuckface. Because all of the world is in the Northern Hemisphere. It's not like Australia is undergoing a catastrophic drought and record setting heatwaves that get hotter and longer each summer.

And of course, it's not like Asia, Africa and South America aren't facing similar issues.

No. Because it's snowing outside your fucking door, it must mean that there's no problem. Moron.

[D.Turtle]

I don't think I have to add anything to that...

[Alyrium Denryle]

Let me explain, to me there are two flaws with the name of global warming. The first is that despite the threat we hear from politicians and environmentalists about the world heating up the first thing many will think and keep with is SO WHAT? In the UK last year for example everyone had wonderful scorching summers, record temperatures. This was linked to global warming and was used as a tag by the media making the concept of global warming something not to be feared or worried and if you had wonderful weather because people say it's by global warming then are you going to say it's a bad thing? The second point is that global warming has been tagged many times with quote claiming it would be the start of something sudden and drastic for years on. For example Dr David Viner of the climate research unite said at 2000 that snow would be:

'a very rare and exciting event' in Britain in the coming years.

Forward to 2009-10 and I am sick to death of three weeks of constant snow piling up two feet outside my house, if this was a rare occurrence then it was something given it has been the coldest weather for 30yrs.

Then we do have the claims of late about climate temperatures being manipulated that overshadowed Copenhagen. It's not that global warming is flimsy evidence, the world has heated up at times but it has also cooled down. The world is quite turbulent, but despite claims the world is heating up, the warmest point in recent years has not been 2008 but 1998. Though Is global warming a poor way to term and illustrate the problem? Just as the 'black hole' gives the idea that the black hole is a one dimensional universal drain that sucks in via one way?

Of course global warming neglects one aspect. Global cooling.

Global Cooling or the Ocean Cycle Theory differs from global warming in that the cause of it cannot be blamed on man because the basis of manmade pollution is that we are contributing global warming by not cooling it. Instead the warmth and cooling of the planet is down to the ocean cycles and not directly of carbon emissions. There seems to be evidence pointing to global cooling. 1915-1940 the world enjoys a 25yryr warm period. Late 40's to 70's witness a drop in temperatures. 1980-2007 the world begins to heat up, at this moment the belief of global warming is occurring and will continue to occur.

It's a question of what you believe, or what is likely to be the case, could global warming itself just be a theory with more scaremongering then facts?

I'll let you all debate on this.

First, the better term is global climate change, or even climate chaos.

That said moron, the trend is in average temperatures. It also increases variance in temperatures in some areas. Take Fairbanks Alaska for example. The area experiences massive temperature swings depending on time of year because it is in central alaska and has no climate mediation from ocean currents. However the average temperature has gone up in summer causing the permafrost trees are rooted into melt... taking the perma out of permafrost.

In the UK, the Gulf Stream mediates winter climates via warm water. It keeps English Winters mild. However the salt water of the Gulf Stream will submerge under the fresh water lens from melting ice caps, and this effect will disappear. You will have warmer summers thanks to the overall effect (potentially) but winters will become positively Canadian because you will lack the nice balmy tropical water coming up from the Gulf of Mexico.

Also, there is more to global warming than nice weather. have you considered what will happen to global food chains, particularly in the ocean? Patterns of nutrient upwellings will change, algae wont be able to survive the change in temperature or the increase Ph of a CO2 saturated ocean and they will die. Both of these will fuck up everything from fish stocks to terrestrial nutrient cycles. Rainfall patterns will change, and in a way that right now is unpredictable. Ocean levels will rise, inundating densely populated coastal areas and turning fresh water estuaries into salt marshes.

This will happen too fast for the organisms to adapt, and we will be in for a world of hurt as a result of the cascading effects.

[Shinova]

But no, because I'm here in California and it's been raining for days straight in Summer!! So global warming is a hoax!!



(A dude actually said the above on youtube)

[bobalot]

In today's weather news, Hurricane Retard has started to batter Stardestroyer.net

[Edi]

Korgeta, I suggest you take a good look at how the mechanisms involved work. If you're brave enough, go read through this debate on another board. The relevant posts there are #30, #33, #35, #43 and #47. Especially 30, 33 and 47.

They address all of the commonly held bullshit from climate change deniers, especially their lies about CO2 levels and their exaggerations about the significance of water vapor compared to CO2.

[Hillary]

Phew, thanks Korgeta - I am truly grateful to you for reassurring me that global warming is a myth. I was getting worried there.

I am glad that you've pointed out that you can determine the truth of climate change from 3 weeks of a cold snap on a tiny island in the North Atlantic and can happily ignore the heatwaves being suffered by a much larger area of the globe.

One of the most annoying things about my fellow countrymen is that they laugh at the stupid Americans for being so insular, when they themselves are just as bad - and with a much smaller range of vision. At least in America you have a pretty large land mass to be insular about.

And Korgeta - it's not a question of what you believe, it's a question of evidence and the evidence points one way.

[Genii Lodus]

Sunspots people, sunspots. We're freezing our butts off due to a lack of sunspots.
At least, that's what the latest crackpot theory going around claims.

I've heard that one from my dad. I'm not sure how absence of dark, colder patches on the sun's surface is meant to make the Earth cooler though. He's also stopped using Google because they were hiding the evidence of ClimateGate...

[Mayabird]

Sunspots people, sunspots. We're freezing our butts off due to a lack of sunspots.
At least, that's what the latest crackpot theory going around claims.

I've heard that one from my dad. I'm not sure how absence of dark, colder patches on the sun's surface is meant to make the Earth cooler though. He's also stopped using Google because they were hiding the evidence of ClimateGate...

The sun is very slightly more luminous during sunspot periods (the sunspots are slightly more than counterbalanced with the appearance of prominences and other thingies on the sun whose names I forget that occur at the same time as sunspots) and then they repeat something they read somewhere about the Little Ice Age and the few sunspots seen therefore no global warming. Despite the oceans being the warmest ever measured, and water is a much greater reservoir of heat than the land, and other things that have already been mentioned.

[Shaun]

How much do sun sports affect total solar irradiance? Hardly anything. It's always the people whose physics knowledge is even less than a man whose first name is Jack and surname is Shit that think global warming is due to sun spots.

And has anyone else ever noticed that it's almost always lay people who come up with all these bullshit theories rather than scientists or engineers? S'true. And what's worse is that these people seem to think that scientific debate is conducted via quote mining and link spamming rather than the actual mechanisms causing the actions; whoever can find the most quotes from someone who is apparently a scientist and the most links to a newspaper article about there being some sort of doubts wins.

[bobalot]

Any money this retard will run away from this thread like a bitch?

[Surlethe]

Hey bobalot, stop vulturing. It's annoying as hell and you're not contributing a damn thing.

[Surlethe]

Sunspots people, sunspots. We're freezing our butts off due to a lack of sunspots.
At least, that's what the latest crackpot theory going around claims.

I've heard that one from my dad. I'm not sure how absence of dark, colder patches on the sun's surface is meant to make the Earth cooler though. He's also stopped using Google because they were hiding the evidence of ClimateGate...

The sun is very slightly more luminous during sunspot periods (the sunspots are slightly more than counterbalanced with the appearance of prominences and other thingies on the sun whose names I forget that occur at the same time as sunspots) and then they repeat something they read somewhere about the Little Ice Age and the few sunspots seen therefore no global warming. Despite the oceans being the warmest ever measured, and water is a much greater reservoir of heat than the land, and other things that have already been mentioned.

At least that makes sense; the Sun is by far the single biggest force acting on the climate. The argument for AGW is, and has been, that the introduction of additional CO2 into the atmosphere will lead to ceteris paribus warming: if the sun cools down slightly, all bets are off. Of course, the solar cycle is just that - cyclic, so we'll see warming in the long run, but IIRC climatologists predicted slight global cooling this past decade because of solar dimming.