Special Election to Replace Late Sen. Kennedy

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Special Election to Replace Late Sen. Kennedy

Post by Nova Andromeda »

-The special election to replace late Sen. Kennedy is almost over. For the last week or so the Democrat, Coakley, has been polling close to the Repblican, Brown. For Mass., arguably the most liberal state in the U.S., to come close to sending a republican to the Senate to replace Sen. Kennedy (one of the very few actual progressives) would be shocking if it were not for the fact that it only takes a few minutes of listening to Coakley triangulate to know she'd be just like every other sellout democrat and just like Obama: all talk and in the end the progressives get the shaft. Personally, I hope Coakley loses, the democrats are forced to use reconciliation to pass anything, and the progressives are treated to something other than anal rape.

-You can find coverage and details @ WBUR.

WBUR - By MONICA BRADY-MYEROV wrote:Dems Question Why Brown Is Gaining On Coakley

BOSTON — Republican Scott Brown’s campaign language has the aura of a revolutionary crusade. His election corps is called the Brown Brigade, he talks about red invading the blue state and he calls his fundraisers “money bombs.”

State Republican Party Chairwoman Jennifer Nassour gives Brown a lot of credit for energizing Republicans. “When you see someone with such a great positive attitude about what he’s doing and when people keep tell you, ‘God you have an uphill battle,’ and you walk in with a smile on your face and say, ‘I can do this,’ you start to make people believe that you can do it,” she said.

Coupled with his celebrity magazine good looks — he was Cosmopolitan’s sexiest man in 1982 — and friendly personality, Brown has become a true contender to Democratic Attorney General Martha Coakley.

Democrats have themselves to blame for giving Republicans hope, said long-time Democratic strategist Michael Goldman, at Government Insight Group. “I think it was easy to believe post the primary that the Brown camp was never going to get the kind of traction or attention that would force her to engage,” he said.



Vicki Kennedy listens to Martha Coakley after she formally endorsed Coakley in the race for her late husband Sen. Edward M. Kennedy's U.S. Senate seat on Thursday, Jan. 7. (Elise Amendola/AP)
So Coakley coasted. She opened two field offices to Brown’s nine across the state. He’s been out every day on the campaign trail; she virtually disappeared over the holidays. He was the first to mount TV ads and held his own in the debates.

Early on, Democrats let Brown define himself, Goldman said, as “a really swell fellow, basically a moderate Republican — maybe even a conservative Democrat — when in fact this person has been and is an extremely conservative Republican, far to the right of anyone we’ve elected in this state.”

Here are some of Scott Brown’s positions: He favors the death penalty. He is against gay marriage. He questions whether global warming is man-made or natural. He does not believe waterboarding is torture. He says he supports Roe v. Wade but he has not promised to protect abortion rights, and he’s been endorsed by the anti-abortion group Massachusetts Citizens for Life.

Ron Kaufman, former White House director and Republican National Committeeman for Massachusetts, said Brown’s climb in the polls should be credited to his stance on issues voters care about.

Voters are “upset with health care, they are upset with spending, they are upset with huge deficits, they are upset with terrorism and they are in sync with where Scott Brown is on issues and where she’s not,” Kaufman said.

But in recent polls, voters say they see Coakley as the best candidate to handle issues such as taxes, the economy and health care. So that gets back to campaign strategy to explain why she’s not dominating the race.

For instance, Democrats should have reacted strongly when Brown compared himself with President John F. Kennedy, said Steve Grossman, former chair of the state Democratic Party. But Grossman said they did not get the wake up call until some recent polls showed a close race.

Then, Grossman said, the Coakley campaign realized: “Oh my goodness, we may have taken a little too much for granted and it’s time for us to get to work.”

There was another surprise this week when Brown raised $1.3 million in one day of online fund-raising. Now, Sen. John Kerry is sending e-mails to supporters nationwide calling the race a “dead heat” and asking for help.

In their hearts and in their internal polling, Democrats know it would be almost impossible for the so-called “Kennedy seat” to go to a Republican. But now they are upping their involvement in the final days of this campaign to make sure.
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Re: Special Election to Replace Late Sen. Kennedy

Post by SirNitram »

We have an AG against a man who is..

1) A teabagger.
2) In 2008, implied Obama was born out of wedlock.
3) Posed nude.
4) Voted against full paid leave for those on Red Cross duty, saying the state couldn't afford it, then voted for a taxpayer subsidized golf course.
5) Doesn't cover his campaign staff with medical care.

Oi.

As for predictions: If Brown wins, the 'centrist' democrats collectively shit their pants and immediately vote with the GOP.
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Re: Special Election to Replace Late Sen. Kennedy

Post by Nova Andromeda »

SirNitram wrote:We have an AG against a man who is..

1) A teabagger.
2) In 2008, implied Obama was born out of wedlock.
3) Posed nude.
4) Voted against full paid leave for those on Red Cross duty, saying the state couldn't afford it, then voted for a taxpayer subsidized golf course.
5) Doesn't cover his campaign staff with medical care.

Oi.

As for predictions: If Brown wins, the 'centrist' democrats collectively shit their pants and immediately vote with the GOP.
-Confirming that Brown is a typical northeastern republican: disgusting scum. However, he'd only be there for 3 yrs. I'd rather have him play some Lieberman games for 3 years and then get an actual progressive in the next primary than have another sellout democrat with who'll be in office for the next 40 years. A strong message also needs to be sent that the progressive base of the democratic party won't be there for you no matter what.
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Re: Special Election to Replace Late Sen. Kennedy

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Nova Andromeda wrote:
SirNitram wrote:We have an AG against a man who is..

1) A teabagger.
2) In 2008, implied Obama was born out of wedlock.
3) Posed nude.
4) Voted against full paid leave for those on Red Cross duty, saying the state couldn't afford it, then voted for a taxpayer subsidized golf course.
5) Doesn't cover his campaign staff with medical care.

Oi.

As for predictions: If Brown wins, the 'centrist' democrats collectively shit their pants and immediately vote with the GOP.
-Confirming that Brown is a typical northeastern republican: disgusting scum. However, he'd only be there for 3 yrs. I'd rather have him play some Lieberman games for 3 years and then get an actual progressive in the next primary than have another sellout democrat with who'll be in office for the next 40 years. A strong message also needs to be sent that the progressive base of the democratic party won't be there for you no matter what.
Actually, a likelier result, as SirNitram pointed out, is that all the centrist Democrats see this as a Republican come back and take a hard swing to the Right to avoid being voted out. This, combined with the loss of the filibuster-proof majority, means the GOP can block anything the Democrats try to pass. With the possible result that Obama is voted out in 2012, and we get best case scenario someone like Huckabee and worse case scenario someone like Palin for President.

As for your criticisms of Obama, while I wish he'd done more, I also think he's more to the Left than you believe. Its just that he's dealing with an obstructionist Congress and is perhaps a bit too timmid. Of course, you're free to oppose him and the Democrats if you really think he's so terrible, but just keep in mind that the price could well be handing the country back to the GOP for a round of screwing that'll make the Bush years look tame.
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Re: Special Election to Replace Late Sen. Kennedy

Post by MKSheppard »

SirNitram wrote:We have an AG against a man who is..
You forgot he owns a timeshare.
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Re: Special Election to Replace Late Sen. Kennedy

Post by Serafine666 »

SirNitram wrote:We have an AG against a man who is..

1) A teabagger.
2) In 2008, implied Obama was born out of wedlock.
3) Posed nude.
4) Voted against full paid leave for those on Red Cross duty, saying the state couldn't afford it, then voted for a taxpayer subsidized golf course.
5) Doesn't cover his campaign staff with medical care.

Oi.

As for predictions: If Brown wins, the 'centrist' democrats collectively shit their pants and immediately vote with the GOP.
You forgot one:
6) Has campaigned primarily on a promise to block healthcare reform if elected.
Even if Brown doesn't win, a heart-stopper like this, where the state that gave the Senate one of its strongest voices for healthcare reform just barely misses electing someone from the opposite political party who vows to prevent healthcare reform, could do substantial political damage; plausible or not, Republicans would argue that Brown didn't win because he was a political sidenote in an extremely Democratic state but add that even a strongly Democratic state must be turning against healthcare reform if so many of them vote for a senator promising to halt it. Again, whether that's a plausible argument or not, it could be very alluring to "moderates" nervous about their election prospects.
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Re: Special Election to Replace Late Sen. Kennedy

Post by SirNitram »

MKSheppard wrote:
SirNitram wrote:We have an AG against a man who is..
You forgot he owns a timeshare.
I don't mind timeshares. Unless that's his residence for claiming residency for MA.
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Re: Special Election to Replace Late Sen. Kennedy

Post by SCRawl »

I'm watching the returns right now. It's within a few thousand votes, with 7% reporting, with Brown leading. Is there a Kennedy running as an independent, or have 1243 morons forgotten that Ted isn't running this time?

Edit: Yeah, okay, there's another Kennedy in the race.
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Re: Special Election to Replace Late Sen. Kennedy

Post by Tanasinn »

Personally, I hope Coakley loses, the democrats are forced to use reconciliation to pass anything
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Re: Special Election to Replace Late Sen. Kennedy

Post by SirNitram »

Coakly just conceded, via MSNBC. Oh well. Half-assed reform would've been something, but it looks like game over.
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Re: Special Election to Replace Late Sen. Kennedy

Post by Nova Andromeda »

SirNitram wrote:Coakly just conceded, via MSNBC. Oh well. Half-assed reform would've been something, but it looks like game over.
-Actually, there are a couple diff. plans for health reform to still be passed. The House can pass the Senate bill as it is or they can do reconciliation. Besides, reform was killed by Obama (although there is some debate as to whether it was because he's a dino or because he's a coward). Frankly, a dead healthcare bill is far better than that zombie bill they have put together in the Senate.
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Re: Special Election to Replace Late Sen. Kennedy

Post by ray245 »

Nova Andromeda wrote:
SirNitram wrote:Coakly just conceded, via MSNBC. Oh well. Half-assed reform would've been something, but it looks like game over.
-Actually, there are a couple diff. plans for health reform to still be passed. The House can pass the Senate bill as it is or they can do reconciliation. Besides, reform was killed by Obama (although there is some debate as to whether it was because he's a dino or because he's a coward). Frankly, a dead healthcare bill is far better than that zombie bill they have put together in the Senate.
Except that this would only result in the conservative gaining even more voice in the Senate, as well as resulting in the blue dogs deciding to side with the Republicans even more.
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Re: Special Election to Replace Late Sen. Kennedy

Post by MKSheppard »

Who would have thought a year ago, Ted Kennedy would die, and his seat would go to a Republican Challenger who's winning like 53-46 with 75% of the vote counted?

Truly, we live in the end times.

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Re: Special Election to Replace Late Sen. Kennedy

Post by SirNitram »

Nova Andromeda wrote:
SirNitram wrote:Coakly just conceded, via MSNBC. Oh well. Half-assed reform would've been something, but it looks like game over.
-Actually, there are a couple diff. plans for health reform to still be passed. The House can pass the Senate bill as it is or they can do reconciliation. Besides, reform was killed by Obama (although there is some debate as to whether it was because he's a dino or because he's a coward). Frankly, a dead healthcare bill is far better than that zombie bill they have put together in the Senate.
I think the those who would've gained coverage through medicaid, subsidies, and such would disagree. I also think anyone honestly worried about the deficit would disagree, as this reduced it.
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Re: Special Election to Replace Late Sen. Kennedy

Post by Vympel »

This just in, the Democrats are fucking useless. Couldn't hold Ted Kennedy's seat. What a joke.
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Re: Special Election to Replace Late Sen. Kennedy

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Nova Andromeda wrote: -Actually, there are a couple diff. plans for health reform to still be passed. The House can pass the Senate bill as it is or they can do reconciliation. Besides, reform was killed by Obama (although there is some debate as to whether it was because he's a dino or because he's a coward). Frankly, a dead healthcare bill is far better than that zombie bill they have put together in the Senate.
If the health care bill is truly dead, it wasn't killed by Obama. It was killed by assholes in Congress like Lieberman. Like it or not, Obama is not a dictator. He cannot force Congress to pass jack shit if they don't want to.
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Re: Special Election to Replace Late Sen. Kennedy

Post by Nova Andromeda »

ray245 wrote:
Nova Andromeda wrote:
SirNitram wrote:Coakley just conceded, via MSNBC. Oh well. Half-assed reform would've been something, but it looks like game over.
-Actually, there are a couple diff. plans for health reform to still be passed. The House can pass the Senate bill as it is or they can do reconciliation. Besides, reform was killed by Obama (although there is some debate as to whether it was because he's a dino or because he's a coward). Frankly, a dead healthcare bill is far better than that zombie bill they have put together in the Senate.
Except that this would only result in the conservative gaining even more voice in the Senate, as well as resulting in the blue dogs deciding to side with the Republicans even more.
-Compromise w/ the 'blue dogs' was one of the major reasons the health care bill was gutted. If they go with reconciliation they don't need to gut the bill to satisfy just one senator like Lieberman.
-Democrats have a history of passing or helping to pass gutted 'reform' bills and half measures after 'compromising' everything away. One thing the Democrats haven't tried is to vigorously fight for and pass real reform.
-Personally, I don't see a problem with letting the 'blue dogs' kill good progressive bills that the public strongly supports (like universal health care). It only provides fodder for running more progressive candidates in the future.
-On another note, most voters voted for either Brown or Coakley. That's not the message I wanted to be sent to the democrats. I wanted to see a large number of protest votes: votes for anyone other than the two major candidates.
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Re: Special Election to Replace Late Sen. Kennedy

Post by Nova Andromeda »

The Romulan Republic wrote:
Nova Andromeda wrote: -Actually, there are a couple diff. plans for health reform to still be passed. The House can pass the Senate bill as it is or they can do reconciliation. Besides, reform was killed by Obama (although there is some debate as to whether it was because he's a dino or because he's a coward). Frankly, a dead healthcare bill is far better than that zombie bill they have put together in the Senate.
If the health care bill is truly dead, it wasn't killed by Obama. It was killed by assholes in Congress like Lieberman. Like it or not, Obama is not a dictator. He cannot force Congress to pass jack shit if they don't want to.
-If that were true he would not have come out in vigorous defense of party traitors like Lieberman while condemning Dean and other progressives. Face it, Obama's actions strongly support the hypothesis that he never actually supported universal health care, a public option, etc.
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Re: Special Election to Replace Late Sen. Kennedy

Post by ray245 »

Nova Andromeda wrote: -Democrats have a history of passing or helping to pass gutted 'reform' bills and half measures after 'compromising' everything away. One thing the Democrats haven't tried is to vigorously fight for and pass real reform.
And that will happen now?
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Re: Special Election to Replace Late Sen. Kennedy

Post by Nova Andromeda »

SirNitram wrote:
Nova Andromeda wrote:
SirNitram wrote:Coakly just conceded, via MSNBC. Oh well. Half-assed reform would've been something, but it looks like game over.
-Actually, there are a couple diff. plans for health reform to still be passed. The House can pass the Senate bill as it is or they can do reconciliation. Besides, reform was killed by Obama (although there is some debate as to whether it was because he's a dino or because he's a coward). Frankly, a dead healthcare bill is far better than that zombie bill they have put together in the Senate.
I think the those who would've gained coverage through medicaid, subsidies, and such would disagree. I also think anyone honestly worried about the deficit would disagree, as this reduced it.
-The current bill leaves a broken system on life support, but it's still doomed to failure somewhat further down the road. However, you would have paid for that relatively minor reform by spending all the desire for reform and giving massive gifts to the insurance industry at the expense of the middle and lower class. Frankly, that's a terrible deal.
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Re: Special Election to Replace Late Sen. Kennedy

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Nova Andromeda wrote: -If that were true he would not have come out in vigorous defense of party traitors like Lieberman while condemning Dean and other progressives. Face it, Obama's actions strongly support the hypothesis that he never actually supported universal health care, a public option, etc.
Possibly, but it still might have gone the same way even with Obama denouncing Lieberman and so on. At the end of the day, Congress has to hold the bulk of the blame.

And in any case, none of the above would prove that Obama is against Universal Health Care. It could just be that he's overly cautious.
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Re: Special Election to Replace Late Sen. Kennedy

Post by Nova Andromeda »

ray245 wrote:
Nova Andromeda wrote: -Democrats have a history of passing or helping to pass gutted 'reform' bills and half measures after 'compromising' everything away. One thing the Democrats haven't tried is to vigorously fight for and pass real reform.
And that will happen now?
-Have you noticed how even at SDnet, this bastion of liberal/progressive supporters, there is such resistance to even the mention that the Democrats grow a spine? It seems that every time there is a choice between: 'real reform and a fight' and 'sewage reform and less fight' the 2nd option is taken and even defended as 'necessary' at SDnet. Even if the Democrats continue down the road of 'compromising' everything into sewage (as many in this thread seem to suggest is the best option) it will only lead to the Republicans getting back into power after the public becomes disallusioned with Democrat ineffectualism (that's EXACTLY what's happened tonight btw). If the Democrats had fought for 'real reform' there wouldn't be such outrage at them and they probably would have taken this election easily.
-Anyhow, it doesn't seem to really matter since we are where we are. Sadly, I didn't get a large protest vote. It appears we're all just screwed by the moron public spinless and Democratic party.
-What do you guys recommend progressives do (aside from bend over and take it)?
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Re: Special Election to Replace Late Sen. Kennedy

Post by Nova Andromeda »

The Romulan Republic wrote:
Nova Andromeda wrote: -If that were true he would not have come out in vigorous defense of party traitors like Lieberman while condemning Dean and other progressives. Face it, Obama's actions strongly support the hypothesis that he never actually supported universal health care, a public option, etc.
Possibly, but it still might have gone the same way even with Obama denouncing Lieberman and so on. At the end of the day, Congress has to hold the bulk of the blame.

And in any case, none of the above would prove that Obama is against Universal Health Care. It could just be that he's overly cautious.
-I submit that 'overly cautious' was his decision (a bad strategy as I've always said) and that still makes it his fault.
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Re: Special Election to Replace Late Sen. Kennedy

Post by Count Chocula »

Hey, political death for progressives is okay by me. One Woodrow Wilson in a country's lifetime is bad enough, much less a progression (progressive?) of them. Frankly, I'm wallowing in Schadenfreude (captialized for mucho emphasis) over the Dems' loss of the most prominently progressive Senatorial seat they've had over the last 40 years. To a guy who posed for Cosmo as their 1982 "America's Sexiest Man" winner, and who drives a (gasp) pickup truck!!!

In Massachusetts!?!?!?! Truly the world has turned upside down.

It's apparent that Brown drew a lot of disappointed Democrats and Independents under his wing. The election may provide food for thought for Republicans as well, who may reach the (IMO correct) conclusion that "conservatives" like Bush or Snowe aren't who their constituents want representing them. Brown ran on a pretty narrow platform, with one object being to block in the Senate this turd of health care "reform" bill that's been negotiated in private, Democrat-only meetings, and that a majority of Americans don't want.

The fact that he's won in the bluest of blue states tells me that the Democrats have fucked up by the numbers and are losing voters at a rapid rate. In other news, a couple states down, New Jersey (blue state but just middlin') just got Republican Chris Christie for a governor. If Jersey's pattern continues, they'll have three more Republican governors before swapping for a Dem.

November's elections should be...interesting. So much for James Carville's "40 More Years" bloviating.
The Romulan Republic wrote:If the health care bill is truly dead, it wasn't killed by Obama. It was killed by assholes in Congress like Lieberman. Like it or not, Obama is not a dictator. He cannot force Congress to pass jack shit if they don't want to.
If Obama, as seems to be the case, turned the job of healthcare takeover evisceration reform over to Reid & Pelosi and then stood back, its current floundering says little good about either his judgment or his ability to whip his party into realizing his (and, supposedly, their) goals.
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Re: Special Election to Replace Late Sen. Kennedy

Post by Andrew J. »

Woodrow Wilson was a capital-p Progressive of the early twentieth century; he and his policies (such as support of segregation and the banning of miscegenation) have relatively little to do with what most people would consider "progressive" today.
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