Serafine666 wrote:
While true, we have many indications that the GE by itself commands a resource base comparable to that of the Tyrannids but beyond just itself and its institutions can coopt a much larger resource base. They have the capability to drain the oceans of a presumably Earth-like world rapidly just to make an example of the inhabitants and a Base Delta Zero operation (sterilizing a planet, more or less) requires a relatively tiny fraction of their overall fleet strength (if I remember Mike's interpretation on his BDZ page, it takes 3-4 Star Destroyers but smaller ships can do it as well). I admit to having very limited familiarity with the Warhammer 40K universe but I don't recall that the Imperium of Man or any other major power has the capacity to fight its way to a planet that the 'Nids have conquered and are in the process of consuming and simply sterilize it of every living thing after carving apart the Hive Fleet.
Yes, the Empire has a massive resource and industrial base to draw on, but they typically do not utilize it to its full extent - not immediately anyhow. (There were certainly obvious limitations on them during the Galactic civil war. Its likely that a heavy wartime footing would disrupt galactic trade, which would have adverse effects on the industrial and econimc side of things). The real problem the Empire has is that for its size and industrial potential it is woefully under-militarized (rather like the US) - the military is more a political and economic force than it is a combat one - noone really could threaten the Empire in the SW galaxy, so what need for a large standing military? (Whereas the Imperium is under threat form myriad threats, and hence is much more militarized.)
Next: you only need one ISD to do a BDZ really (hell you probably could with one smaller warship too given enough time). A single Imperium ship can do their equivalent (Exterminatus) in a matter fo hours as well (timeframe specified for BDZ usually) with roughly similar effects (crust melted, atmosphere gone, etc.) Tyranid wrships aren't quite on par with Imperium warships, but numbers tend to be vastly greater. Given the fleet battle I recall during the Battle of Macreagge (hundreds of Imperial warships vs thousands of Tyranids) you could say they maybe have 1/10th the firepower at worst. And the Imperum HAS wiped out planets Tyrnaids have infected via virus bombardment or Cyclonic warheads (the latter of which can be brute force or technobabble) - most often by using small craft equipped with exterminatus munitions. (But then again the GE probably couldn't fight througha nd do a convntional BDZ since it takes time. At most it might do an alpha strike type attack via munitions or some such.)
The Tyrannids obviously are indifferent to massive losses but indications of the industrial scale the GE commands, their speed of travel versus that of the Tyrannids, and much better communications versus those of the WH40K universe seems to make a strong case for them being able to defeat the Tyrannids in a war of attrition since they can sterilize unimportant worlds that they lose (the GE doesn't seem to care about slaughtering billions to get at their enemy i.e. wiping out a planet as an interrogation tactic to get at the Rebellion) and use an ability to rapidly shift large amounts of reinforcements to kill a Hive Fleet and then assault the 'Nid forces occupying an important world. I'm not suggesting a walk-all-over-them-with-two-Star-Destroyers victory like would happen against the Federation but it seems that the balances that fall in the favor of the Galactic Empire would suggest that they would have vastly greater success against the Tyrannids than WH40K powers did, even to the point of convincing what remains to seek easier prey.
The Imperium has a masive advantage in mobility over the Tyranids too as a rule, but that doesnt help them. Mobility isnt so much the issue with the tyranids as their ability to coordinate on a galactic scale, their utter insensitivty to losses, and their tendancy to operate on scales of centuries or more. Yes, the Empire can more cooridnate rapidly to eradicate any single, indivudla Tyranid menace, but what happens if, for example, they used a variant of the splinter fleet tactic attacking simultaneously over a large area? The advantage of the Tyranids ultimately lies in the fact they'll keep coming back again and again until they get it right and try different tactics.
Now, moving on to the "Borg bio-wankery" factor (I'm just using the terminology; I know they have a rational and believable mechanism for adapting): the 'Nids apparently enjoy limitless tactical adaption, willing to lose a trillion bodies here and try something else there to adapt to that loss. The question, however, is time and competing adaption.
Why should time matter? The Tyranids are fine at operating over a period of centuries, and they really only need to consume a few worlds to gain enough material resources to "stay even" with their losses. Time is probably something the Tyranids have to worry about
least.
We're not talking about a power that uses a few massive war machines (I don't seem to recall that the Imperium has tens of thousands of Titans) and then relies on smaller war machines and super-infantry but one that relies on a full spectrum of combined-armed warfare with a supporting technical apparatus to develop weapons that can take advantage of the see-saw nature of Tyrranid adaption.
I'm not getting your point here. The Imperial Guard is at least s competent and diversified militariliy as the Imperial Army and Stormtroopers, probably more so given the differences in operation (IE the Imperium is at war. The GE can at best be charitably called conducting peacekeeping duties.) And yes there are at least tens of thousands of titans. Thousands of Forge Worlds exist, and your average Legion has dozens of titans of all types. But Titans aren't the only "high end" ground force - there are ordinatus, numerous kinds of superheavies, etc. Superheavies have a fair fraction of Titan grade firepower themselves (especially shadowswords, which are comparable to SPHA-Ts quite easily. Juggernauts would be comparable to a Baneblade.)
As NecronLord pointed out, they adapt by weakening traits that are ineffective and strengthening traits that are effective but from what little we see if Star Wars ground combat, the 'Nids would be forced to adapt to an enemy whose weaknesses are more fluid than those of WH40K adversaries.
"more fluid"? WTF does that mean?
The Orks rely on great numbers and cobbled-together technology; the Imperium relies on its supersoldiers; the Imperial Forces have numbers and large modern-esque war machines; the Tau are hypertechnical and rely primarily on their pulse rifles and auxiliaries.
The Orks rely on numbers, persistance, great and innate durability, and a varied and unpredictable technological base. They do in fact have some technological abilities that match or exced the Imperium (Teleporters for example. The Third armageddon war had them using teleporters over inteerstellar distances)
The Imperium is a combined arms force - space marines are only one part. There's the Guard, the PDF, the Titan Legions/SKitarri forces, the Sisters of Battle, the Storm Troopers, Naval troopers and armsmen, etc.
The Imperials (the GE I presume you mean) are largely a peacekeeping force. The Imperial Army has in fact supplanted the GAR and while it retains much of their vehicle capability the infantry capability has downgraded (they use partial body armor for example). The Stormtrooper legions maintain much if any of the qualtiative 'infantry' advantage, but they're more a shock/space based assault force (Boarding ops and such.) and are oftne meant to work in conjunction with other forces. They are most akin to 40K "Storm troopers" in doctrine if anything. The GE keeps forces as diverse as the Imperium though (the Navy, COMPNOR and even intel have their own military forces.)
The Tau rely on technology (use of drones and AI as well as standardizing the quality of their troops to a greater extent than the Imperium) and auxiliaries to bolster their low numbers and to make up shortcomings (IE Kroot as infiltrators and CQB specialists). They rely mainly on light infantry/skirmisher type of warfare with an emphasis on mobility, range and firepower, particularily employed from surprise. As I've said, within those parameters they are VERY capable but outside of them they suck ass (hence the need for Auxiliaries.)
A 'Nid force in for the long haul can plausibly adapt its sliding scale to meet each of these but the GE seems to be hypertechnical, enjoy great numbers, have armored soldiers with a variable loadout, and a whole load of various war machines of various sizes and capabilities which include mortars, thickly-armored transports with heavy assault weaponry, transports that can crawl up and down sheer cliffs (the AT-MT), TIE fighters adapted to act like light tanks, and a varying grade of weaponry power including AI-driven war machines that are incapable of biological emotion (even moving up to World Devastators that wander around eating everything which could easily include 'Nids). Again, I'm not arguing "instant victory, Tyrannids suck balls" but that the GE seems to enjoy characteristics unlike most of not all WH40K adversaries that the 'Nids deal with in canon.
The GE has a number of advantages it could employ, yes. Whether or not it would however is the question. AS I've pointed out in the past repeatedly, the GE is NOT a very militarized socity despite being very dictatorial - the GE tends to rely on other means to ensure domination (Corporate and political influence among others) - the military is just there to act as a deterrent/big stick or act in political roles.
Then again it can be said the Imperium could do some crazy shit too if it "pulled out all the stops" - that doesnt mean doing so is plausible for iether Imperium or GE (it tends to neglect a wide many factors. Such as why the GE still bothers with organic armies at
all.)
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- PeZook
