The thread for this election has moved on into other tangents, so I thought I'd make a new thread for this piece of news. This is the first analysis I've seen that actually has real numbers instead of just wild guesses.
About 15% of Massachusetts citizens between the ages of 18-29 turned out to vote.
...
47.8% of young Massachusetts citizens voted in the 2008 presidential elections, according to CIRCLE’s analysis. Seventy-eight percent of under-30 voters in Massachusetts chose Barack Obama in the 2008 general election; 20% chose John McCain.
While national youth turnout was very strong in 2008 (when 52% of young American citizens voted), youth turnout in the 2009 Virginia and New Jersey Gubernatorial races was poor (17% and 19%, respectively), and even lower in Massachusetts this Tuesday. “Three state elections do not necessarily make a national trend, but there is clearly an issue right now with youth turnout and enthusiasm,” said CIRCLE director Peter Levine. “It will be interesting to see the turnout of young voters in November’s mid-term elections.”
There has been a lot of discussion about what caused Coakley's defeat in such a liberal state. This certainly looks like it was one of the chief sources. That staggering drop easily accounts for the 5% she lost by. It's well known that young people are more progressive then older people, so if Democrats don't get that number up they are in for a hard time come the midterms, and even harder in 2012.
So it was down to the GOTV plans. I thought they were just blowing smoke up...well, their own asses when they were saying that's what it was going to come down to. I figured the blame could be laid on the shitty campaigning, but I guess they fucked it up end to end.
Around here there isn't a big focus on GOTV, I have campaigned in three provincial elections (well, more, but I've been old enough to do something useful on my own for three) and all we did was arrange for rides and call people up on election day, but that was just an extension of the regular campaign phone calls, and a service for the elderly. It's not really considered a separate thing. It seems like it is considered a separate thing in US campaigns, although I may be mistaken here.
Or, at the very least find a way to actually motivate people to vote. Seriously.
It's entirely cultural. Some countries have very high levels of voter participation, even of young voters (Israel for example) while others have low levels of voter participation, like in America.
Compulsory voting is a staggeringly bad idea, for easy to see reasons.
It would be interesting to see an "opt out" system for voting, but that would require a wireless system of some sort. ("Do you wish to vote Y/N" popping up on your eyeball)
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How is this a surprise for anyone? I thought it was an accepted fact that state and local elections generate a far lower voter turnout than national elections as a matter of course.
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The Grim Squeaker wrote:Compulsory voting is a staggeringly bad idea, for easy to see reasons.
Considering Australia has compulsory voting with no real problems, I'm not seeing how it is necessarily a "staggeringly bad idea". Though you could argue our system is opt out, you have to show up at a booth and sign your name, but no one can stop you putting in a blank ballot.
I don't however think that compulsory voting will do much to change America's severely flawed political system.
The Grim Squeaker wrote:Compulsory voting is a staggeringly bad idea, for easy to see reasons.
Considering Australia has compulsory voting with no real problems, I'm not seeing how it is necessarily a "staggeringly bad idea". Though you could argue our system is opt out, you have to show up at a booth and sign your name, but no one can stop you putting in a blank ballot.
I don't however think that compulsory voting will do much to change America's severely flawed political system.
So that's a ~91% real participation rate in the electoral process.
Sure, there are way worse issues in America than non-compulsory voting, but the fact is that certain lobbies have the ability to mobilise the masses (most notably right wing fundamentalists) and control a voting bloc in that regards. Such issues also exist in Australia, but are mitigated by the fact that because everyone votes, groups are not over or under represented.
I want people to vote but I will never support mandatory voting. It is their right to be apathetic. They can just watch their opinions get ignored when they don't vote.
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Alyeska wrote:I want people to vote but I will never support mandatory voting. It is their right to be apathetic. They can just watch their opinions get ignored when they don't vote.
Or they can become progressives and watch their opinions get ignored even when they do.
Quite frankly, It's perfectly understandable for some people to be apathetic about voting in the normal political climate.
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Why should young voters even give a damn, when they know full well that any progress that gets made will just be amended into nothingness or completely blocked and trashed by the massive rich-wing geriatric vote?
With the gigantic block of bleating voters that is the boomer population, theres no point. May as well just keep working to keep your head above water and hope for an early mass die-off.
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Alyeska wrote:I want people to vote but I will never support mandatory voting. It is their right to be apathetic. They can just watch their opinions get ignored when they don't vote.
Their opinions get ignored when they do vote, because other greater voting blocs are mobilised by certain lobbies.
Elections become a matter of how much money can be spent on getting people to the voting booth. I believe it also encourages the use of focusing on divisive issues such as gay marriage , abortion, etc. in order to get certain people riled up and wanting to vote. Compulsory voting mitigates these problems. Australia spends far less per capita on each elections and certain voting blocs generally do not have disproportionate influence.
BTW, why is it peoples "right" to be apathetic? Citizenship has rights and responsibilities. One of those responsibilities in Australia is to spend a few hours on two fucking days every 3-4 years and vote on the direction that the country will be taking.
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I don't have a problem with compulsory voting, but I do think that it would require either vote by mail or more polling places/longer hours. In the last presidential election, I had to show up at the opening time, and I still was late to work.
bobalot wrote:BTW, why is it peoples "right" to be apathetic? Citizenship has rights and responsibilities. One of those responsibilities in Australia is to spend a few hours on two fucking days every 3-4 years and vote on the direction that the country will be taking.
The concept of a democracy, especially a free democracy is built upon that of choice. Compulsory voting is not a choice. I want to vote, but I do not wanted to be forced to vote. I would strongly consider not voting if it became mandatory. That is how much compulsory voting disturbs me.
"If the facts are on your side, pound on the facts. If the law is on your side, pound on the law. If neither is on your side, pound on the table."
"The captain claimed our people violated a 4,000 year old treaty forbidding us to develop hyperspace technology. Extermination of our planet was the consequence. The subject did not survive interrogation."
In Australia, you are compelled to vote, but you don't have to actually VOTE given that you can not tick anything, or just write a message on it, or whatever you want to do. You are under no compulsion whatsoever to do anything more then turn up, and frankly, I just don't see that as anything more then the slightest imposition. I frankly do not understand why people in some nations all but freak out at the idea of being required to turn up and vote, even if they have the right to vote for no-one at all...
Perhaps there could be a conscientious objector status for opting out of compulsory voting, but one would be required to file it much as one would for opting out of military service during a draft. Either way, every citizen should have to make the effort, to vote or to formally request being allowed not to vote. They then might as well vote for what they believe rather than not voting due to sheer apathy, and those that decline to vote for reasons of personal belief have the option.
Chris OFarrell wrote:Frankly I don't see what the fuss is.
In Australia, you are compelled to vote, but you don't have to actually VOTE given that you can not tick anything, or just write a message on it, or whatever you want to do. You are under no compulsion whatsoever to do anything more then turn up, and frankly, I just don't see that as anything more then the slightest imposition. I frankly do not understand why people in some nations all but freak out at the idea of being required to turn up and vote, even if they have the right to vote for no-one at all...
And to reiterate - it seems that some people just like to have the rights of citizenship, with none of the responsibilities. That argument is about as retarded as the idiots who say that they shouldn't have to pay taxes because they don't get welfare etc.
Jason L. Miles wrote:I don't have a problem with compulsory voting, but I do think that it would require either vote by mail or more polling places/longer hours. In the last presidential election, I had to show up at the opening time, and I still was late to work.
I don't get why this is the case in the USA. Having to wait more than a few minutes to vote is unheard of in Europe (as far as I know). It seems odd that it can't organise itself any better.
What about people who know nothing about the issues going out and voting? I would think that people who are completely clueless would tend to vote Republican/conservative anyway.
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Chris OFarrell wrote:Frankly I don't see what the fuss is.
In Australia, you are compelled to vote, but you don't have to actually VOTE given that you can not tick anything, or just write a message on it, or whatever you want to do. You are under no compulsion whatsoever to do anything more then turn up, and frankly, I just don't see that as anything more then the slightest imposition. I frankly do not understand why people in some nations all but freak out at the idea of being required to turn up and vote, even if they have the right to vote for no-one at all...
And to reiterate - it seems that some people just like to have the rights of citizenship, with none of the responsibilities. That argument is about as retarded as the idiots who say that they shouldn't have to pay taxes because they don't get welfare etc.
Your laws on voting compulsion make that argument a joke. Voting is mandatory, except it isn't because you don't actually have to vote for anyone. But damn it we are going to make you waste your time and come to the polls to vote for no one! So, are you in favor of changing Australian law and making voting mandatory by the absolute strictest possible means?
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"The captain claimed our people violated a 4,000 year old treaty forbidding us to develop hyperspace technology. Extermination of our planet was the consequence. The subject did not survive interrogation."
Aly, don't be an ass. Australia's system makes a null vote a deliberate act of protest, not an act of apathy. Can you honestly say that you believe the category of 'can't be arsed going to the polls/can't make it to the polls because the US can't be bothered to put it on a weekend/make it a holiday' has 100% overlap with the 'hate all candidates' category?
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White Haven wrote:Aly, don't be an ass. Australia's system makes a null vote a deliberate act of protest, not an act of apathy. Can you honestly say that you believe the category of 'can't be arsed going to the polls/can't make it to the polls because the US can't be bothered to put it on a weekend/make it a holiday' has 100% overlap with the 'hate all candidates' category?
If you allow people to make a null vote while maintaining the guise of mandatory voting, its a fucking joke. It is not mandatory voting. It is mandatory polling. And I still don't support it. I consider voting like free speech. You are not required to exercise it, but you still have it.
People should vote, but I will not force them to.
"If the facts are on your side, pound on the facts. If the law is on your side, pound on the law. If neither is on your side, pound on the table."
"The captain claimed our people violated a 4,000 year old treaty forbidding us to develop hyperspace technology. Extermination of our planet was the consequence. The subject did not survive interrogation."
So what's the point of an election if there are significant numbers who don't vote, and grumble quietly about nothing changing and becoming more apathetic? The cyclic logic seems to be not hitting some squarely enough.
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Jason L. Miles wrote:I don't have a problem with compulsory voting, but I do think that it would require either vote by mail or more polling places/longer hours. In the last presidential election, I had to show up at the opening time, and I still was late to work.
I don't get why this is the case in the USA. Having to wait more than a few minutes to vote is unheard of in Europe (as far as I know). It seems odd that it can't organise itself any better.
Not enough money spent to staff polling places, not enough polling places, not enough voting machines, stupid ass voting procedures that make you go to three stations (at least here in my county) before you can get to vote, so even if you have enough voting machines, the bottleneck is at the stupid sign in sheet.
Basically, we don't devote enough money to the process, so we can't do it right. And throw in Hawaii's issue (not having enough money to run the election) and you have a REALLY stupid system that actually does better the lower the turnout.
There is no reason (from the perspective of the election organizations) to have a better turn out, in fact, I suspect they privately want more anemic ones than the Mass special election. I would be interested to see turnout results for special elections in the state where everyone votes by mail.
