SD+SB in Middle Earth

[Keevan_Colton]

Hmmm, i don't recall gas masks in the original scenerio, are they something you gonna fashion MacGyver-style?

IIRC making basic gas masks was mentioned earlier....

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Hmmm, i don't recall gas masks in the original scenerio, are they something you gonna fashion MacGyver-style?

Gas masks don't necessarily need to be highly complex. A simple cloth hood with eyepieces that can attach to the uniform (and not in any necessarily complex fashion at that; buttons would suffice if there's an overlap of the fabric), and can be soaked in a substance appropriate for minimizing penetration by the particular threat substance, will considerably improve survivability for several hours at least.

We know there are certainly what are essentially herbal mixes which have proven effective against Nazgûl magic. Just saturate the hoods in those.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

The models I'm basing them on didn't even attach to the uniforms, so these wouldn't necessarily need to, either -- If you worried about the speed of placing them on, for example.

[Robert Treder]

I don't think much evolved, IIRC, it's a creationist world. C'mon, the sun is a chariot, not a ball of plasma. I'd need to find the Similrillian to see if it mentions exactly when the world was made..

If the only place the creation date is mentioned is in the Silmarillion, then it may be convenient to surmise that as with the Bible, the Silmarillion is simply wrong about the creation.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Electrolysis of water.....would also give us pure oxygen for use in scuba style ops

REmind me NEVER to dive with you.

You use compressed air in SCUBA diving. Anyone using oxygen will quickly discover that it becomes lethal to the human body once you pass 10m depth.

Nitrox is an exception, but you use a composite mix of Oxygen and Nitrogen that varies according to depth. Nitrox diving generally is for 40-70m depending on situation.

Go deeper and you want tri-mix, Nitrogen Oxygen and Helium in varied amounts.


Take this as a warning. NEVER EVER DIVE ON PURE OXYGEN.

Yeah, more than 20% oxygen would produce very nasty effects at even low depths. If you're diving hundreds of metres then usually it's heavy nitrogen around 90% and 3% oxygen, and maybe helium IIRC. But the point is, mucho oxygen is bad.

[Patrick Ogaard]

The models I'm basing them on didn't even attach to the uniforms, so these wouldn't necessarily need to, either -- If you worried about the speed of placing them on, for example.

If the gas attack in question is expected to be carried out with a nonpersistent agent that will not necessarily kill with the tiniest whiff, and is not going to be an eye irritant, then a simple emergency mask can be fabricated from a linen pouch, well-packed with activated charcoal and then sewn shut and worn before the mouth and nose like a surgical mask.

It won't be really fun to wear for any length of time, but what gas mask is? It also won't help against stuff like nerve or blister agents, but the Middle Earth baddies don't appear to have access to those sorts of things.

As a cheap response to minor gas threats, it could work, especially to supply locally recruited auxiliaries. I just would not trust it to keep anyone alive under a modern (20th to 21st century) gas attack. Against a nazgul or the like, though, I suspect that it would provide a decent margin of protection, especially if a second layer is sewn into the mask, that layer containing assorted magically potent herbs from Middle Earth (once the Wong Institute of Thaumaturgy has given its seal of approval and confirmed the potency of the herbs).

[The Duchess of Zeon]

I just discovered to my intense delight that I'm one of the top 200 on spacebattles; scratch my earlier disgust at not getting dragged along. Ooh... This going to be so much fun! Do we get jodhpurs and pith helmets? (NO, that is not a fetish. Really.)

Lessee. I'm rather a decent rider, and I wonder if you'll want me to try and form an irregular cavalry arm? Generally in medieval societies you have a level of nobility which aren't quite able to afford the full equippage. These people may be exploitable to create dragoons in our local area very early on, which would ease our scouting demands from the humvees. Those of us from among the base personnel who could keep up with them a-horse would gain respect (though I know I'd be working from a noticeable disadvantage as a woman) and could help us integrate with the local power structure somewhat.

Simultaneously we'd be able to use our agricultural advances to rather subtly threaten to subvert that power structure simply by their existence. Offering a solution to the nobility (IE: the beginnings of constitutional monarchy) would then let us navigate between the two forces. (Because we will be causing social upheaval.)

Would I have at least the equivlant to the contents of my library available in the base? I have A History of Greek Fire and Gunpowder by J.R. Partington open infront of me right now and it would be nice to have resources like that available.

Incidently, the best combination of saltpetre, sulphur, and charcoal, easily achieved, is 75:12:13 (one could be more precise but it is not necessary). It is the mixing process in which the best precision is required.

We can use a water-powered ball mill in which to mix the powder, which will be mixed in water or a water/alcohol mix (It's possible to make small amounts with little more than wine, a pot, and some cheesecloth). The saltpetre would be crushed seperately and mixed in a seperate operation. After you've mixed the powder in the slurry, you dry it into cakes, and use a series of mechanically tripped wooden hammers (to avoid sparks) to beat it into grains. Then you tumble and screen them to achieve a uniform size and smoothness.

Though this process is relatively simple and can be accomplished using technology for the most part little removed from that the natives have available, we will want to build the first powder mills using very strict tolerances and safety procedures. If possible I would also want to build them away from the base, but for security reasons that may be impossible.

One thing I'm thinking of... Patrick: Do you think we can produce a blackpowder round for the M-14 with the same punch as at least the Gewehr 88? All of the guns should probably originally have been 30-06 if they're civilian M-14s, so we have that option of converting back if we want to produce blackpowder cartridges in that caliber over 7.62mm.

Good idea on the gas masks. The smaller we can make them the better. The problem is that we have to worry about blowback from our own gas usage - But I believe if we're using a Phosgene/Chlorine combination, then we'd only need the hoods specifically against Chlorine attacks.

Personally I'd still advocate flintlocks for ease of production, and to avoid overstraining our resources. Likewise, those people whom we want to field armies could then with relative ease and not an extreme amount of assistance requierd, copy production and do so. Perhaps we could produce some caplocks on a limited basis to give out as gifts for those we would want as friends, but don't necessarily trust enough to let them have a chance at imitating fully the production process? They'd also be reliant on us for a supply of caps, then, as the chemistry would be much harder to figure out than blackpowder.

I'd dismiss any ideas about Zeppelins or fixed wing aircraft. Let's not take about any of the humvees when we need them for both combat and agro-projects. OTOH, I would whole-heartedly support observation balloons. If a Nazzy shows up, the guy can use a parachute. Or we could make them barrage balloons and see if the wraiths like what happens when they blow up. Those might be nice over the base to discourage recon at altitudes beyond those at which our guns can range.

Some of us have at least read Clausewitz and Sun-Tzu, and perhaps even Jomini (I know Mike has read the greatest of the Chinese military masters, at least)? I think we should take lessons from the first two. Our aim is to destroy the Ring -- Let us be sure of accomplishing this. We can only do it through combat.

Why do we not try to deceive Sauron? Let's not make any plans after the Ring at first - Instead, let's build up a confederation of the various powers around us, improving their condition and establishing a network of alliances. We can bide our time and increase our power, and our influence with our allies. Sauron will think that our goal is to influence the Middle Earth to our own ideology and to gain the controlling role within that ideological bloc, as we are creatures who lust after power - humans - and so our interest is not in defeating him, but merely in jealously guarding what power we can find here on the Middle Earth.

Once events reach a certain point that we can measure and decide based on the knowledge of military and political affairs, and those of the Middle Earth, between us, then we can act, and we can do it with the maximal decisive power of our alliance structure. Because of the peaceful (or at least largely so) method in which we built our power, the precise strength and capabilities we hold shall be largely concealed, and Sauron, distracted by the Ring, would have little capability to prepare his forces besides.

Naturally this presupposes we have enough distance between our facility and the center of events, to avoid being caught in affairs. If we are thrust straight into them, our time lessens. We will have to act faster, to use propaganda against Sauron, and Mike's suggestion of an action against Saruman at the one year date, becomes ideal.

Thoughts?

[Cpt_Frank]

One thing I'm thinking of... Patrick: Do you think we can produce a blackpowder round for the M-14 with the same punch as at least the Gewehr 88? All of the guns should probably originally have been 30-06 if they're civilian M-14s, so we have that option of converting back if we want to produce blackpowder cartridges in that caliber over 7.62mm.

The ammo wouldn't have enough power with ordinary blackpowder to cycle the action properly.

[Keevan_Colton]

I just discovered to my intense delight that I'm one of the top 200 on spacebattles; scratch my earlier disgust at not getting dragged along. Ooh... This going to be so much fun! Do we get jodhpurs and pith helmets? (NO, that is not a fetish. Really.)

Lessee. I'm rather a decent rider, and I wonder if you'll want me to try and form an irregular cavalry arm? Generally in medieval societies you have a level of nobility which aren't quite able to afford the full equippage. These people may be exploitable to create dragoons in our local area very early on, which would ease our scouting demands from the humvees. Those of us from among the base personnel who could keep up with them a-horse would gain respect (though I know I'd be working from a noticeable disadvantage as a woman) and could help us integrate with the local power structure somewhat.

Simultaneously we'd be able to use our agricultural advances to rather subtly threaten to subvert that power structure simply by their existence. Offering a solution to the nobility (IE: the beginnings of constitutional monarchy) would then let us navigate between the two forces. (Because we will be causing social upheaval.)

Would I have at least the equivlant to the contents of my library available in the base? I have A History of Greek Fire and Gunpowder by J.R. Partington open infront of me right now and it would be nice to have resources like that available.

Incidently, the best combination of saltpetre, sulphur, and charcoal, easily achieved, is 75:12:13 (one could be more precise but it is not necessary). It is the mixing process in which the best precision is required.

We can use a water-powered ball mill in which to mix the powder, which will be mixed in water or a water/alcohol mix (It's possible to make small amounts with little more than wine, a pot, and some cheesecloth). The saltpetre would be crushed seperately and mixed in a seperate operation. After you've mixed the powder in the slurry, you dry it into cakes, and use a series of mechanically tripped wooden hammers (to avoid sparks) to beat it into grains. Then you tumble and screen them to achieve a uniform size and smoothness.

Though this process is relatively simple and can be accomplished using technology for the most part little removed from that the natives have available, we will want to build the first powder mills using very strict tolerances and safety procedures. If possible I would also want to build them away from the base, but for security reasons that may be impossible.

One thing I'm thinking of... Patrick: Do you think we can produce a blackpowder round for the M-14 with the same punch as at least the Gewehr 88? All of the guns should probably originally have been 30-06 if they're civilian M-14s, so we have that option of converting back if we want to produce blackpowder cartridges in that caliber over 7.62mm.

Good idea on the gas masks. The smaller we can make them the better. The problem is that we have to worry about blowback from our own gas usage - But I believe if we're using a Phosgene/Chlorine combination, then we'd only need the hoods specifically against Chlorine attacks.

Personally I'd still advocate flintlocks for ease of production, and to avoid overstraining our resources. Likewise, those people whom we want to field armies could then with relative ease and not an extreme amount of assistance requierd, copy production and do so. Perhaps we could produce some caplocks on a limited basis to give out as gifts for those we would want as friends, but don't necessarily trust enough to let them have a chance at imitating fully the production process? They'd also be reliant on us for a supply of caps, then, as the chemistry would be much harder to figure out than blackpowder.

I'd dismiss any ideas about Zeppelins or fixed wing aircraft. Let's not take about any of the humvees when we need them for both combat and agro-projects. OTOH, I would whole-heartedly support observation balloons. If a Nazzy shows up, the guy can use a parachute. Or we could make them barrage balloons and see if the wraiths like what happens when they blow up. Those might be nice over the base to discourage recon at altitudes beyond those at which our guns can range.

Some of us have at least read Clausewitz and Sun-Tzu, and perhaps even Jomini (I know Mike has read the greatest of the Chinese military masters, at least)? I think we should take lessons from the first two. Our aim is to destroy the Ring -- Let us be sure of accomplishing this. We can only do it through combat.

Why do we not try to deceive Sauron? Let's not make any plans after the Ring at first - Instead, let's build up a confederation of the various powers around us, improving their condition and establishing a network of alliances. We can bide our time and increase our power, and our influence with our allies. Sauron will think that our goal is to influence the Middle Earth to our own ideology and to gain the controlling role within that ideological bloc, as we are creatures who lust after power - humans - and so our interest is not in defeating him, but merely in jealously guarding what power we can find here on the Middle Earth.

Once events reach a certain point that we can measure and decide based on the knowledge of military and political affairs, and those of the Middle Earth, between us, then we can act, and we can do it with the maximal decisive power of our alliance structure. Because of the peaceful (or at least largely so) method in which we built our power, the precise strength and capabilities we hold shall be largely concealed, and Sauron, distracted by the Ring, would have little capability to prepare his forces besides.

Naturally this presupposes we have enough distance between our facility and the center of events, to avoid being caught in affairs. If we are thrust straight into them, our time lessens. We will have to act faster, to use propaganda against Sauron, and Mike's suggestion of an action against Saruman at the one year date, becomes ideal.

Thoughts?

As regards your library, you do get to bring one backpack of stuff....if you intend to indulge in cavalry combat I suggest you look at the armour I said I'd take in my backpack.....

[Keevan_Colton]

I just discovered to my intense delight that I'm one of the top 200 on spacebattles; scratch my earlier disgust at not getting dragged along. Ooh... This going to be so much fun! Do we get jodhpurs and pith helmets? (NO, that is not a fetish. Really.)

Lessee. I'm rather a decent rider, and I wonder if you'll want me to try and form an irregular cavalry arm? Generally in medieval societies you have a level of nobility which aren't quite able to afford the full equippage. These people may be exploitable to create dragoons in our local area very early on, which would ease our scouting demands from the humvees. Those of us from among the base personnel who could keep up with them a-horse would gain respect (though I know I'd be working from a noticeable disadvantage as a woman) and could help us integrate with the local power structure somewhat.

Use of such a mobile force of the locals would indeed aid us greatly, cavalry as well has the great advantage of giving us a mobility not tied directly to fuel supplies...we could also perhaps enlist some in a "ranger" like capacity to scout/deliver messages over distance. A courier network would be of great use to us to co-ordinate our allies....and I doubt fashionig radios for all of them would be terribly practical.

Simultaneously we'd be able to use our agricultural advances to rather subtly threaten to subvert that power structure simply by their existence. Offering a solution to the nobility (IE: the beginnings of constitutional monarchy) would then let us navigate between the two forces. (Because we will be causing social upheaval.)

If you dont join us....
I must say, I like it....

Would I have at least the equivlant to the contents of my library available in the base? I have A History of Greek Fire and Gunpowder by J.R. Partington open infront of me right now and it would be nice to have resources like that available.

You do get to bring a backpack of stuff....a few people propossed brining a laptop loaded down with info from the net....but printed copies of critical and incredibly useful information would be a very good precaution.

Incidently, the best combination of saltpetre, sulphur, and charcoal, easily achieved, is 75:12:13 (one could be more precise but it is not necessary). It is the mixing process in which the best precision is required.

We can use a water-powered ball mill in which to mix the powder, which will be mixed in water or a water/alcohol mix (It's possible to make small amounts with little more than wine, a pot, and some cheesecloth). The saltpetre would be crushed seperately and mixed in a seperate operation. After you've mixed the powder in the slurry, you dry it into cakes, and use a series of mechanically tripped wooden hammers (to avoid sparks) to beat it into grains. Then you tumble and screen them to achieve a uniform size and smoothness.

Though this process is relatively simple and can be accomplished using technology for the most part little removed from that the natives have available, we will want to build the first powder mills using very strict tolerances and safety procedures. If possible I would also want to build them away from the base, but for security reasons that may be impossible.

I think with most of our endeavours we would be best to 'canabalise' local tech to create it.

One thing I'm thinking of... Patrick: Do you think we can produce a blackpowder round for the M-14 with the same punch as at least the Gewehr 88? All of the guns should probably originally have been 30-06 if they're civilian M-14s, so we have that option of converting back if we want to produce blackpowder cartridges in that caliber over 7.62mm.

If nothing else some other intresting alternatives to rifles can be fashioned using black powder....rockets combined with what we can cook up chemically would be most intresting....

Good idea on the gas masks. The smaller we can make them the better. The problem is that we have to worry about blowback from our own gas usage - But I believe if we're using a Phosgene/Chlorine combination, then we'd only need the hoods specifically against Chlorine attacks.

Its always good to be protected against what you are throwing around lest some bright spark throw it back. Gas masks would be a must in my opinion during any deployment of chlorine etc....after all we cannot totally discount magical intervention as regards winds....hope for the best, plan for the worst.

Personally I'd still advocate flintlocks for ease of production, and to avoid overstraining our resources. Likewise, those people whom we want to field armies could then with relative ease and not an extreme amount of assistance requierd, copy production and do so. Perhaps we could produce some caplocks on a limited basis to give out as gifts for those we would want as friends, but don't necessarily trust enough to let them have a chance at imitating fully the production process? They'd also be reliant on us for a supply of caps, then, as the chemistry would be much harder to figure out than blackpowder.

Flintlocks ought to be more than sufficent to arm our local armies with, we do after all want to maintain our own firepower advantage.

I'd dismiss any ideas about Zeppelins or fixed wing aircraft. Let's not take about any of the humvees when we need them for both combat and agro-projects. OTOH, I would whole-heartedly support observation balloons. If a Nazzy shows up, the guy can use a parachute. Or we could make them barrage balloons and see if the wraiths like what happens when they blow up. Those might be nice over the base to discourage recon at altitudes beyond those at which our guns can range.

I dont think zepplins should be dismissed totally...they would be created without canabalizing a hummer....fixed wing aircraft however are out......I agree that observation ballons could be useful....

Some of us have at least read Clausewitz and Sun-Tzu, and perhaps even Jomini (I know Mike has read the greatest of the Chinese military masters, at least)? I think we should take lessons from the first two. Our aim is to destroy the Ring -- Let us be sure of accomplishing this. We can only do it through combat.

Why do we not try to deceive Sauron? Let's not make any plans after the Ring at first - Instead, let's build up a confederation of the various powers around us, improving their condition and establishing a network of alliances. We can bide our time and increase our power, and our influence with our allies. Sauron will think that our goal is to influence the Middle Earth to our own ideology and to gain the controlling role within that ideological bloc, as we are creatures who lust after power - humans - and so our interest is not in defeating him, but merely in jealously guarding what power we can find here on the Middle Earth.

Once events reach a certain point that we can measure and decide based on the knowledge of military and political affairs, and those of the Middle Earth, between us, then we can act, and we can do it with the maximal decisive power of our alliance structure. Because of the peaceful (or at least largely so) method in which we built our power, the precise strength and capabilities we hold shall be largely concealed, and Sauron, distracted by the Ring, would have little capability to prepare his forces besides.

Naturally this presupposes we have enough distance between our facility and the center of events, to avoid being caught in affairs. If we are thrust straight into them, our time lessens. We will have to act faster, to use propaganda against Sauron, and Mike's suggestion of an action against Saruman at the one year date, becomes ideal.

Thoughts?

The last part there is a good analysis of how things are likely to go down as regards Sauron....he's not the type to think anyone would do things differently from what he would.....as someone mentioned before Sun-Tzu would consider this scenario a dream come true.

[Typhonis 1]

A simple two man ballon on a rope tether would allow us a greater field of view if only over our own base.A zepplin would be useful in many ways ,long range transport , survellance , scaring the shit out of the locals , and combat .

[Keevan_Colton]

A simple two man ballon on a rope tether would allow us a greater field of view if only over our own base.A zepplin would be useful in many ways ,long range transport , survellance , scaring the shit out of the locals , and combat .

A diplomatic envoy arriving from the sky will certainly get the point across that we are a power you really ought to stop and listen to....

[Patrick Ogaard]

The simple hood gas mask idea is also a good one, and obviously ultimately a much safer solution than my little emergency mask. Everyone should obviously be issued an emergency mask as soon as such are fabricated, with the masks being replaced on a regular basis, perhaps every three to six months. At that point, the powdered charcoal and linen of old emergency masks will work fine as fire starters.

For a locally made gas hood, the obvious answer is canvas (if available), or leather if not, but only if there is nothing better available. There should be something better available. The goggles that should be included as helmet accessories could then be integrated into the hood. The medical clinic should have cyanoacrylates (superglue) and various other useful medical adhesives on hand, otherwise one simply uses the patch kits for the cold weather and/or rain gear.

The base is supposed to be supplied with a plentiful store of uniforms and modern body armor, and if the stocks are US military-derived, that pretty much has to include all sorts of good stuff. I would expect the stores of uniform materials to be composed primarily of sets of TA-50, the standard issue gear for soldiers. A sample can be found under http://www.lewis.army.mil/ncoa/list%20ta50.htm

The remainder of the uniform stores I would expect to be composed of perhaps a thousand sets of temperate woodland BDUs in assorted sizes, a a thousand sets of thermal underwear, twice that number of sets of regular underwear, four thousand pairs of socks, two thousand pairs of gloves with glove liners, a thousand assorted berets and uniform caps, spare ponchos by the pound, and a thousand toasty warm watch caps.

If the standard issue TA 50 equivalent for task force members includes a complete set of MOPP gear, everyone in the taks force will be covered when it comes to NBC protection, at least for the first several years.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

The remainder of the uniform stores I would expect to be composed of perhaps a thousand sets of temperate woodland BDUs in assorted sizes, a a thousand sets of thermal underwear, twice that number of sets of regular underwear, four thousand pairs of socks, two thousand pairs of gloves with glove liners, a thousand assorted berets and uniform caps, spare ponchos by the pound, and a thousand toasty warm watch caps.

If the standard issue TA 50 equivalent for task force members includes a complete set of MOPP gear, everyone in the taks force will be covered when it comes to NBC protection, at least for the first several years.

You take all the fun out of it, but the MOPP gear is considered standard issue I believe (One of our military members can probably confirm that) - so, depending on clarification.. It's certainly worth the drab of the uniforms. Pity, though. If one is risking death, one should at least be well-dressed (Zouaves, perhaps? Ah well, 'tis a pity, but not a fatal one).

[The Duchess of Zeon]

The ammo wouldn't have enough power with ordinary blackpowder to cycle the action properly.

That's what I'm worried about. Patrick? As an alternative, mayhaps cocoa powder is not beyond our technological capabilities and could make a compromise that would operate the M-14s passably.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

As regards your library, you do get to bring one backpack of stuff....if you intend to indulge in cavalry combat I suggest you look at the armour I said I'd take in my backpack.....

I'd probably try to take books that weren't considered pertinent as to be included in the library but I still thought necessary - Assuming I knew the content of the library in advance. Armour is too heavy and we can make or buy it there. I wouldn't want more than a half-plate besides, and probably not even that.

Hrmm. One thing I'd find enough room for would be a book of music for military marches, drum rolls, and bugle calls. Another on flag signals would also be good. That sort of thing will be very important if we're going to be training any allies to operate effectively, since they won't have radios.

As for assignments: We ultimately won't have control over those ourselves (and the only advantage cavalry has in a straight-up fight is in running away, anyway, so I wouldn't worry over it - And we, in turn, would only have that if we ditched the armour, since the Middle Earth has way more cavalry than we would), though an arm of dragoons will be useful if we have the luxury of the personnel for it. As I've figured - 200 + 75 + total Military personnel is our grand total. It would be nice if we could figure out what exactly that is; it may likely be enough for those who have the appropriate riding skills to form the core of an eventual larger mounted scouting group, however.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

A diplomatic envoy arriving from the sky will certainly get the point across that we are a power you really ought to stop and listen to....

True, but we would realistically be limited to building blimps if we wanted powered flight. Zeppelins are huge - The WWI ones easily reached the same size in dimensions as battleships - and even if much smaller, would require massive and in some cases very complex resources, nevermind enough fabric that we'd need to be establishing trading ties with the equivlant of medieval Burgundy or something.

Their accuracy in bombing was also pathetic. Their greatest successes were in a less than half a dozen raids on London. Most of the rest of the time they killed cattle and blew craters into fields, and that's during the entire course of WWI with a large number operating. Of course, we could bomb during daylight and much lower, but it's just not the greatest platform.

For one we could actually build, the bombload and range would also be negligible. I just think the idea in general would be expending resources towards a very uncertain end, and one that could be explosively lost if a Ringwraith got lucky. They might be more durable than largely thought -- But they're still pretty vulnerable, all things said.

[Keevan_Colton]

As regards your library, you do get to bring one backpack of stuff....if you intend to indulge in cavalry combat I suggest you look at the armour I said I'd take in my backpack.....

I'd probably try to take books that weren't considered pertinent as to be included in the library but I still thought necessary - Assuming I knew the content of the library in advance. Armour is too heavy and we can make or buy it there. I wouldn't want more than a half-plate besides, and probably not even that.

Hrmm. One thing I'd find enough room for would be a book of music for military marches, drum rolls, and bugle calls. Another on flag signals would also be good. That sort of thing will be very important if we're going to be training any allies to operate effectively, since they won't have radios.

As for assignments: We ultimately won't have control over those ourselves (and the only advantage cavalry has in a straight-up fight is in running away, anyway, so I wouldn't worry over it - And we, in turn, would only have that if we ditched the armour, since the Middle Earth has way more cavalry than we would), though an arm of dragoons will be useful if we have the luxury of the personnel for it. As I've figured - 200 + 75 + total Military personnel is our grand total. It would be nice if we could figure out what exactly that is; it may likely be enough for those who have the appropriate riding skills to form the core of an eventual larger mounted scouting group, however.

My armour suggestion was actually an adaptation of modern materials for a rather nice brigande style armour.....
Using a mix of kevlar (or the spectra fibreglass weave I recall from someplace), high impact plastics and padding a very effective armour beyond the capabilities of what we could pick up locally can be made.....
the spectra-fibreglass mix has incredible cut resistance, and the high inpact plastics can deal very well with stabs, add the padding to help with impacts and you have excelent armour for use against melee armed foes....

I still wouldnt take it against bodkin arrows, but against swords, spears and axes it would provide far better protection than a standard bullet proof vest or comporable local armour (in terms of weight and mobility).

[The Duchess of Zeon]

My armour suggestion was actually an adaptation of modern materials for a rather nice brigande style armour.....
Using a mix of kevlar (or the spectra fibreglass weave I recall from someplace), high impact plastics and padding a very effective armour beyond the capabilities of what we could pick up locally can be made.....
the spectra-fibreglass mix has incredible cut resistance, and the high inpact plastics can deal very well with stabs, add the padding to help with impacts and you have excelent armour for use against melee armed foes....

I still wouldnt take it against bodkin arrows, but against swords, spears and axes it would provide far better protection than a standard bullet proof vest or comporable local armour (in terms of weight and mobility).

The problem is repairing it, unfortunately.

[Typhonis 1]

one I used Zepplin to describe a powered airship with a frame be it large or small and two what kind of accuracy do you need to drop napalm on Orcs marching along? Since we are going to be "Magically" transported to ME we could ask that those with major medical problems ,like Yosimite Bear and his need for insulin , be cured before we arrive.

[SWPIGWANG]

I think the best method is to just blitzkrieg. Get the Fellowship set up in weeks and rush in with 150 hummer of death. It shouldn't be too difficult to outrun most opposition and shoot/chemical weapon the rest. Orks on foot just don't have the mobility to stop a hummer force reguardless of numbers if we move fast and decisively.

Maybe we can bring parts for aircraft and blitz with that.

[Patrick Ogaard]

It might not be necessary to use blackpowder in the taskforce's own weapons. Blackpowder is better used in the weapons of local auxiliaries and for demolitions (plus fougasses near the base walls and wall-mounted falconets to protect the base). The facility is supposed to have a well-stocked medical lab and a fully functional chemistry lab with supplies.

Given that set of labs and the library full of "pertinent books," it should be possible to produce nitrocellulose. A good chemist (AKA one who doesn't blow him or herself up) with access to the library, lab and supplies should be able to produce nitrocellulose of the required purity and composition. Then someone has to come up with a way of producing safe primer explosives and one of the gun afficionado handloaders in the taskforce will have to come up with a way of duplicating a Boxer centerfire priming cartridge. With that, and the inevitable bullet molds that one or more of those gun bunnies will bring along, making replacement munitions should be entirely workable.

The one big problem with blackpowder weapons is that the material produces serious fouling in the weapon very quickly, and that fouling is mildly corrosive. Practically all the assault and battle rifles that have been listed so far, including the M14, tap part of the propellant gas to power the reloading cycle of the weapon. That means that even a short firefight would quickly foul one of those semiautomatic weapons into temporary uselessness.

[Typhonis 1]

Nitrocellul;ose comes from Nitroglycerine doesnt it? and in WW2 they use cooking grease to get Glycerine from didnt they? I think 10% glycerine from bad grease but not sure

[Darth Wong]

Hmmm, i don't recall gas masks in the original scenerio, are they something you gonna fashion MacGyver-style?

I seriously doubt that the Nazgul black breath has a greater range than an assault rifle, so this is a moot point. I would be far more terrified of an A-10 warthog than some idiot with a knife coming out of the clouds on a dragon. Besides, I would like to hear an explanation of how Aragorn was able to attack several of these clowns with a sword if they're so dangerous.

[Darth Wong]

I think the best method is to just blitzkrieg. Get the Fellowship set up in weeks and rush in with 150 hummer of death. It shouldn't be too difficult to outrun most opposition and shoot/chemical weapon the rest. Orks on foot just don't have the mobility to stop a hummer force reguardless of numbers if we move fast and decisively.

Beware foolhardy aggressiveness. A set of barricades made out of large rocks could stop a Hummer advance cold in its tracks. Military success does not come from overconfidence.