America, the Censored ...

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America, the Censored ...

Post by Darth Wong »

Two incredible stories in one day:

http://www.thestar.com/entertainment/th ... peare?bn=1
Outraged Nashville censors try to gut TO's Shakespeare
O Romeo! Bard makes Dixie blush
By Richard Ouzounian Theatre Critic
Published On Tue Jan 26 2010

When Shakespeare wrote in Hamlet "There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so," he must have had the city of Nashville in mind.

Toronto's Classical Theatre Project presented Romeo and Juliet in the capital of Tennessee to an enthusiastic audience of 1,000 students and teachers Monday afternoon, but the performance was almost derailed Sunday night by a group of self-appointed censors who found the Bard of Avon a bit too racy for Music City, U.S.A.

David Galpern, artistic director of the theatre company, was taken aback when confronted with requests for a series of cuts to Shakespeare's text and a general "toning down" of the bawdier elements in the show.

"We've performed this for 100,000 people in Canada without a single complaint from a teacher or student. Why should it suddenly change here?" he said on the phone from Nashville Monday.

Since it was founded in 2001, the acclaimed company has become Canada's largest producer of classical theatre for youth and has played to more than 350,000 students. The production of Romeo and Juliet being performed in Nashville was nominated for a Dora Award in 2009.

Most of the worries were about the sexuality explicit in the script and how it was brought to accurate life by the group, especially in scenes involving the ribald Mercutio.

Charles Roy, co-founder of the company, admitted there was an element of bawdry in some of the passages, but, as he pointed out, "If Mercutio doesn't offend the Nurse with his line about the bawdy hand of the dial being upon the prick of noon and she doesn't try to exit in protest, then what happens to the rest of the play?"

Despite the worries of some of the staff of the Program Services for Education department at the Tennessee Performing Arts Centre about the content they saw at Sunday night's dress rehearsal, their director, Sherri Leathers, remained steadfastly committed to the show.

"The performance I saw ... was awesome, as I always knew it would be," said Leathers.

She had come up to see the theatre group in Canada and was so impressed that she lobbied extensively to get them to perform in Tennessee and was anxious that everything should go right.

"Sherri has been totally supportive and we value everything she's done for us," volunteers Roy.

"We're guests here and we don't want to fight a cultural war," adds Galpern, "but at what point are we starting to betray the work itself?"

After much discussion, they decided to present the show as planned and Monday's audience was, by and large, enthusiastic.

Danielle Moffitt, 18, from Goodpasture Christian School, said, "The sexuality was a good thing, the way they addressed it openly back then, not like now."

On the flip side, a woman who identified herself as Val, a home-school teacher from Hermitage, "struggled being here with my son. The sexuality was too much. Our children need to be more pure."

Several other teachers echoed her opinion.

No matter how the rest of the week's performances go, it seems the Toronto company has already fulfilled one of its missions, which Galpern sums up. "We want them to think Shakespeare is the furthest thing from boring."
LINES NASHVILLE THEATRE STAFF WANTED CUT

SAMPSON: Ay, the heads of the maids, or their maidenheads;

take it in what sense thou wilt.

Act I, Scene 1

MERCUTIO: This is the hag, when maids lie on their backs,

That presses them and learns them first to bear,

Making them women of good carriage:

Act I, Scene 4

MERCUTIO: ... the bawdy hand of the dial is now upon the prick of noon.

Act 2, Scene 4
http://www.thestar.com/news/world/artic ... onary?bn=1
U.S. school bans the dictionary
Cathal Kelly
Staff Reporter

A Southern California school board has pulled the Merriam-Webster dictionary off its shelves after a parent complained about the entry “oral sex.”

The collegiate-level dictionary was being used in grade four and five classrooms. The school now promises to begin a thorough scouring of the dictionary for other offensive entries.

“It’s hard to sit and read the dictionary, but we’ll be looking to find other things of a graphic nature,” Menifee Union School District spokesperson Betti Cadmus told the local The Press-Enterprise newspaper.

Merriam-Webster defines oral sex as “oral stimulation of the genitals.”

The dictionaries were originally intended for use by children working at advanced reading levels. Now the California town, pop. 70,000, looks like the staging ground for a First Amendment battle.

“If a public school were to remove every book because it contains one word deemed objectionable to some parent, then there would be no books at all in our public libraries,” said Peter Scheer, executive director of the California First Amendment Coalition, told The Press-Enterprise. “I think common sense seems to be lacking in this school.”

The decision has divided parents. While some supported the idea of an “age appropriate” reference book, others saw the decision in terms of free speech.

“Censorship in the schools, really?” Emanuel Chavez, the parent of second- and sixth-grade students, said to the Press Enterprise. “Pretty soon the only dictionary in the school library will be the Bert and Ernie dictionary.”
Way to go, guys! American Christians ... building a bridge to the 19th century.
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Re: America, the Censored ...

Post by Vastatosaurus Rex »

Fascinating that certain Christians are even more uneasy about sex than people back in Shakespeare's day.
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Re: America, the Censored ...

Post by Samuel »

On the flip side, a woman who identified herself as Val, a home-school teacher from Hermitage, "struggled being here with my son. The sexuality was too much. Our children need to be more pure."
Can someone explain the thinking behind this attitude? I'm a little rusty, but isn't associating knowledge and dirty language with impurity completely ridiculous? Or is this just code for "it makes me uncomfortable"?
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Re: America, the Censored ...

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Samuel wrote:Can someone explain the thinking behind this attitude? I'm a little rusty, but isn't associating knowledge and dirty language with impurity completely ridiculous? Or is this just code for "it makes me uncomfortable"?
Christians believe that children are made perfect and pure, innocent and in a state of grace as per the image of God, but then they become corrupted by our sinful worldly society.

Seriously, I know that sounds really silly, but that's pretty much precisely what they believe. Of course, many of them wouldn't come out and put it in those terms, but that's the mentality that underlies much of their thinking on child-related issues whether they admit it or not.

Scientists, on the other hand, understand that children are born animals, just like the rest of us, and they need to be educated and conditioned in order to become civilized members of society. There's a huge clash of world-views between science and Christian doctrine when it comes to human nature at its most fundamental level. Of course, science has the advantage of overwhelming objective evidence on its side, but Christianity has ... well, it just knows it's right.
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Re: America, the Censored ...

Post by Darth Wong »

Vastatosaurus Rex wrote:Fascinating that certain Christians are even more uneasy about sex than people back in Shakespeare's day.
Look up the term "bowdlerize". We often believe that the past was sexually puritanical, but that was largely a product of the incredibly puritanical 19th century, which was indeed more puritanical than the times preceding it.
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"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

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Re: America, the Censored ...

Post by Vastatosaurus Rex »

Darth Wong wrote:Christians believe that children are made perfect and pure, innocent and in a state of grace as per the image of God, but then they become corrupted by our sinful worldly society.
I don't know as many Christians as you do, Wong, so you may be right, but I had the impression that they believed the opposite: humans are born evil, because of Original Sin, and need to be redeemed via a proper Christian upbringing. Perhaps it depends on the theology/philosophy of the particular sect.
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Re: America, the Censored ...

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Vastatosaurus Rex wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:Christians believe that children are made perfect and pure, innocent and in a state of grace as per the image of God, but then they become corrupted by our sinful worldly society.
I don't know as many Christians as you do, Wong, so you may be right, but I had the impression that they believed the opposite: humans are born evil, because of Original Sin, and need to be redeemed via a proper Christian upbringing. Perhaps it depends on the theology/philosophy of the particular sect.
The idea of children being born in a "state of grace" is an extremely popular way of rationalizing the otherwise horrifying idea that newborn babies who die before they can understand theology are condemned to eternal suffering. In short, it's a work-around for a huge design flaw in Christian doctrine.

In any case, look around you and read Christian arguments on child-rearing. It's all about "protecting" and "shielding" them from society.
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Re: America, the Censored ...

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The irony, of course, is that Nashville is the seat of Country and Western Music, long known for it's drinkin', whorin', cheatin', gamblin', murderin' themes. Frequently all of them in the same song.
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Re: America, the Censored ...

Post by Vastatosaurus Rex »

Broomstick wrote:The irony, of course, is that Nashville is the seat of Country and Western Music, long known for it's drinkin', whorin', cheatin', gamblin', murderin' themes. Frequently all of them in the same song.
But that's part of their glorious Southern heritage, so they don't care about it as much as what some dead guy across the sea wrote.
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Re: America, the Censored ...

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It's also a matter of expectations. We've all seen some variation on the theme of a kid being raised as some sort of avatar of their mother or father. When that kind of parent says "my son" or "my daughter," what they're really saying is "the younger, stronger, better version of me, who will go on to do all the things I was too inept and stupid and venal to do."

And that kind of parent isn't usually well-disposed toward rebellion, or things that might inspire defiance. Profanity and knowledge fit on both counts; profanity implies disrespect for tradition, and knowledge implies certainty in the face of authority figures telling you otherwise.
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Re: America, the Censored ...

Post by Serafina »

Actually, christians believe BOTH things:

Children are, as all humans, sinners before god because of the original sin.
But their character is also innocent, so they need to be protected from the sinful world.

It's pretty self-contradictionary, but that should hardly be a surprise.
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Re: America, the Censored ...

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Partly, but not entirely. If you recall older times, you'll notice that children weren't really seen as people. They're seen as children. The notion lives on in our language, and is certainly not extinct in our culture at large. "It." The child. Das Kind. Barnet. Et cetera. Not until it becomes a real human does "it" become "he" or "she", and gain agency, the unpredictable free will.

Thus there's no mental disconnect. The child is not, in an emotional context, a stinking filthy sinner. But when "it" ceases to be an "it", the Innocence evaporates.
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Re: America, the Censored ...

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Vastatosaurus Rex wrote:
Broomstick wrote:The irony, of course, is that Nashville is the seat of Country and Western Music, long known for it's drinkin', whorin', cheatin', gamblin', murderin' themes. Frequently all of them in the same song.
But that's part of their glorious Southern heritage, so they don't care about it as much as what some dead guy across the sea wrote.
No, actually they DO care about it - there a plethora of small churches in that region that forbid listening to ALL radio, TV, movies, and music precisely to avoid any possible contagion from the outside world. You just don't hear or read much about them, as they are quite reclusive. I know about them largely because some of my in-laws are involved with such cults. They are also exactly the sort of folks who'd react in horror to sexual innuendo in Shakespeare.
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Re: America, the Censored ...

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Why does it bother me so much that the article referred to "Val" as a "home school teacher" instead of "parent"? The title seems somehow unwarranted. Just because she's home-schooling her kid doesn't really make her a "teacher" in my mind. That somehow denotes a professional title and implication of qualifications to me.
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Re: America, the Censored ...

Post by Zixinus »

Can someone please explain what is it that the Shakespear bit actually implies? I just never was good with early modern English, so I just don't get what is it that the censors actually object to (besides, you know, everything that they are scared of).
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Re: America, the Censored ...

Post by Samuel »

Zixinus wrote:Can someone please explain what is it that the Shakespear bit actually implies? I just never was good with early modern English, so I just don't get what is it that the censors actually object to (besides, you know, everything that they are scared of).
I believe the first quote is a vigina joke, the second is a sex joke and the third is a penis joke. I'm not entirely positive though.
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Re: America, the Censored ...

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Zixinus wrote:Can someone please explain what is it that the Shakespear bit actually implies? I just never was good with early modern English, so I just don't get what is it that the censors actually object to (besides, you know, everything that they are scared of).
This isn't a professional job at the least, as I'm not overly familiar with the play, but:
SAMPSON: Ay, the heads of the maids, or their maidenheads;/ take it in what sense thou wilt.
= "the heads of the virgins, or their virginities; interpret it as you like".
MERCUTIO: This is the hag, when maids lie on their backs, / That presses them and learns them first to bear, / Making them women of good carriage: / ... the bawdy hand of the dial is now upon the prick of noon."
"This is the hag, when young women lie on their backs" - well, it's not so much implied as stated outright.
"...that presses them and teaches them to endure? (uncertain as to context here)" = that instructs them in proper behaviour, and teaches them good bearing
"The vulgar hand of the dial" (referring to a clock, or simply the time) "points to the cock of noon".

Yeah. I can see why this and sexual repression does not make for the best of bedfellows.
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Re: America, the Censored ...

Post by Plekhanov »

So these parents are fine with their kids seeing a play with a good deal of violence and which culminates in a joint suicide of a youngish teenage couple so long as it doesn't have any dick jokes in it?
On the flip side, a woman who identified herself as Val, a home-school teacher from Hermitage, "struggled being here with my son. The sexuality was too much. Our children need to be more pure."
Sorry what? You want Romeo and Juliet but without the sexuality? For your next trick are you going to demand they put on a Mid Summer Night's Dream without any reference to magic and fairies?
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Re: America, the Censored ...

Post by xerex »

Zixinus wrote:Can someone please explain what is it that the Shakespear bit actually implies? I just never was good with early modern English, so I just don't get what is it that the censors actually object to (besides, you know, everything that they are scared of).

the first lines make more sense if you take a bigger excerpt.
SAMPSON
women, being the weaker vessels,
are ever thrust to the wall: therefore I will push
Montague's men from the wall, and thrust his maids
to the wall.......I will be cruel with the
maids, and cut off their heads.
GREGORY
The heads of the maids?
SAMPSON
Ay, the heads of the maids, or their maidenheads;
take it in what sense thou wilt.
GREGORY
They must take it in sense that feel it.
SAMPSON
Me they shall feel while I am able to stand: and
'tis known I am a pretty piece of flesh.
he's talking about about killing Monatague's men and then being cruel to the women . Both by killing them or raping them as he sees fit.
Which once untangled, much misfortune bodes:
This is the hag, when maids lie on their backs,
That presses them and learns them first to bear,
Making them women of good carriage:
This is she--
this part of a much longer piece

Romeo says he had a dream (likely a sex dream) Mercutio responds that dreams lead to despair and sex leads to pregnancy and young girls get old.
Nurse
Is it good den?
MERCUTIO
'Tis no less, I tell you, for the bawdy hand of the
dial is now upon the prick of noon.
Nurse
Out upon you! what a man are you!
he's being rude to her saying the hands of a clock at noon look like an erect penis.
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Re: America, the Censored ...

Post by Srelex »

What's ironic that frankly all this stuff they're making a fuss of will likely fly over the heads of anyone they could consider 'too young' to be aware of sexual or its implications. Hell, I'm sure it'd fly over the heads of some older people, considering that Shakespeare is basically gibberish to some.
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Re: America, the Censored ...

Post by CaptainChewbacca »

Any student in Tennessee who correctly identifies what 'maidenhead' refers to should get an automatic A in english, because they're clearly paying attention.
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Re: America, the Censored ...

Post by Edi »

The dictionary bit is especially idiotic, because the word being objected to is rather innocuous and considered far less vulgar than fuck, cunt, sodomy, cunnilingus etc that appear in a dictionary.

Never mind the whole idea of banning a book that explains the meanings of words, but when they can't even get it straight within the framework of their insanity...
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Re: America, the Censored ...

Post by CaptainChewbacca »

Edi wrote:The dictionary bit is especially idiotic, because the word being objected to is rather innocuous and considered far less vulgar than fuck, cunt, sodomy, cunnilingus etc that appear in a dictionary.

Never mind the whole idea of banning a book that explains the meanings of words, but when they can't even get it straight within the framework of their insanity...
Does MW Dictionary actually have the c-word in it? I was (for some reason) under the impression that certain profanities were just left out.
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Re: America, the Censored ...

Post by General Zod »

CaptainChewbacca wrote:
Edi wrote:The dictionary bit is especially idiotic, because the word being objected to is rather innocuous and considered far less vulgar than fuck, cunt, sodomy, cunnilingus etc that appear in a dictionary.

Never mind the whole idea of banning a book that explains the meanings of words, but when they can't even get it straight within the framework of their insanity...
Does MW Dictionary actually have the c-word in it? I was (for some reason) under the impression that certain profanities were just left out.
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Re: America, the Censored ...

Post by Themightytom »

“Censorship in the schools, really?” Emanuel Chavez, the parent of second- and sixth-grade students, said to the Press Enterprise. “Pretty soon the only dictionary in the school library will be the Bert and Ernie dictionary.”
Woah Woah! We don't TALK about those two its awkward... they ahd to move to seperate rooms it was unseemly...

They are really sucking the joy out of childhood. I was always SO amused by shakespeare in middle school because of the intellectual stimualtion dirty references. I have fond memories of trying to ambush the English teacher with poems that references genitalia (She would read submissions and sometimes didn't read them all the way through)

I wonder if there are dirty references in the bible...

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