Cloning and Force Sensitivity

[Solauren]

Do you really think Thrawn would prefer to have the empire go down for 10 years before resurfacing?

The Empire still had 25% of it's resources left when he left the Hand. The New Republic wasn't being that aggressive.
He probably didn't expect the Empire to go into the crapper as quickly as it did. (Alot of that has to do with the Emperor's Resurrection, which Thrawn had no idea about).

[Thanas]

So you really are of the opinion Thrawn left the empire leaderless on purpose for a decade?

[Solauren]

So you really are of the opinion Thrawn left the empire leaderless on purpose for a decade?

On Purpose? No.

By accident, Yes.

Remember, he went to great lengths to keep the Smuggler's out of the war, and to keep the Noghiri subjectated.

If the Smuggler's hadn't entered the war, the Republic would have been crushed during Thrawn's 'final battle'.
If the Noghiri hadn't turned, Thrawn would have survived, no matter what the outcome of the battle.

In short; Thrawn didn't see his own death coming. Ironically like Palpatine.

[Thanas]

So you really believe Thrawn set his backup to ten years out of choice. Uh-huh.

[Solauren]

So you really believe Thrawn set his backup to ten years out of choice. Uh-huh.

Possibly. People have been known to do odd things.

It's also possible that's the quickest a Chiss can be cloned without it having sever health problems.

The fact is, we can't say for sure why Thrawn choose 10 years as a cloning time. We do, however, have enough evidence to say it's "Odd".

[Thanas]

So you really believe Thrawn set his backup to ten years out of choice. Uh-huh.

Possibly. People have been known to do odd things.

It's also possible that's the quickest a Chiss can be cloned without it having sever health problems.

The fact is, we can't say for sure why Thrawn choose 10 years as a cloning time. We do, however, have enough evidence to say it's "Odd".

There is nothing to suggest that Chiss are so vastly different from humans. You are grasping at straws. The far easier explanation is that high-quality clones take time, which is at least partly supported by canon. Yours is a fantasy.

[Solauren]

So you really believe Thrawn set his backup to ten years out of choice. Uh-huh.

Possibly. People have been known to do odd things.

It's also possible that's the quickest a Chiss can be cloned without it having sever health problems.

The fact is, we can't say for sure why Thrawn choose 10 years as a cloning time. We do, however, have enough evidence to say it's "Odd".

There is nothing to suggest that Chiss are so vastly different from humans. You are grasping at straws. The far easier explanation is that high-quality clones take time, which is at least partly supported by canon. Yours is a fantasy.

really?

Then please explain the squadron of Baron Fel clones that helped Han Solo + Lando at the end of the Hand of Thrawn Duology? You know, the ones that ended up with his personality and farming skills as well?

Those were 'vat grown' clones, complete with Flash-imprinting, put in place before Thrawn was killed.

You know, the ones that were maintaining their own Tie Interceptors, had all of Fel's traits and personality and skills.

That's not 'a limited skill set'. That's a damn right near-perfect duplication of the original.

[Thanas]

really?

Then please explain the squadron of Baron Fel clones that helped Han Solo + Lando at the end of the Hand of Thrawn Duology? You know, the ones that ended up with his personality and farming skills as well?

Those were 'vat grown' clones, complete with Flash-imprinting, put in place before Thrawn was killed.

You know, the ones that were maintaining their own Tie Interceptors, had all of Fel's traits and personality and skills.

That's not 'a limited skill set'. That's a damn right near-perfect duplication of the original.

Actually flying a TIE, maintaining it and farming are all very limited skill sets, which have nothing to do with personality. As for them having the same personality as the Original Fel, I doubt they really had all his memories etc. Clearly not on par with "leading an empire".

And you still have to prove that they are cloned the same way as the rest, considering their limited appearances and small number.

Your argument basically boils down to: Thrawn somehow thinks that the empire will be better off without leading him and will not disintegrate to nothingness in 10 years, despite losing 75% of its territory in just five years and a rapid disintegration in the last two years. Or, he is too stupid to manage to reset a timer, when this is the same guy who had enough times to personally lead single-ship engagements while coordinating an offensive.

Right.

[Solauren]

Actually, I'm arguing Cloning Force Sensitives, and that rapid cloning is possible even with complex patterns.

Quite frankly, Thrawn's 10 year timer on his clone is a Thrawn choice. Could be a requirement for his species, could be Thrawn's choice, could be the Emperor remotely screwing with him (whatever).

Incidently, I agree with you, a 10 year growth cycle on the back-up clone of the leader of the Empire is rather foolish if not required.

Shall we get back to the main arguement of if it's possible to rapid-clone force users, and imprint them?

If so, here's my support on that.

- - -

I never thought Karen Travis would actually prove useful for something.

In Star Wars: Betrayal, Darth Vader kills an Emperor's Hand named Sa Cuis (in approximately 19 BBY).
2 Years later in 17BBY, Vader is training Sa Cuis's adult clones in Lightsaber combat and the Force.

This is after the Emperor had established his Spaati Cloning Facility on Coruscant's second moon.
(Now, I haven't read Betrayal, so if there is anything in there to suggest that the clones were grown outside of the facility, or in a non-flash imprinting manner, please, enlighten me.)

There were also the pre-clone War Kamino grown clones, X1 and X2 (Star Wars Battlefront: Elite Squadron I believe), clones of Jedi Knight Falon Grey.

Combine that with the fact the Luuke Skywalker clone was created on Mount Tantis, and had Force-abilities (admittantly, the extent of which and circumstances of the Luuke clone were unique, thanks to C'boath).

Thrawn was also experimenting with cloning force users, including Kam Solusar.

More telling, is there was a Jedi Enclave on Tattooine that had Cloning Equipment in it. (Galaxy of Fear: Clones)

After the Battle of Yavin, while searching for Luke, Vader entered the remains of the enclave, was injuried by a trap, and the cloning facility within cloned Vader.

The cloning technique was not perfect (it somehow acquired a Flash-like imprint of Vader without him actually getting into a Flash-Scanner), and Vader tore the Clone apart when he revisited a short time later (about 5 - 6 months later. Hard to know without a definative dated timeline).

For more detailed information, start here
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Cloning

Anyway
There is a lot of canon evidence to support the growing of Force-Sensitive clone (C'boath, Sa Cuis, the Emperor, Falon Grey, Luke, Vader), and the clones themselves being Force-Sensitive.

There is canon evidence to support it's possible to rapid grow and Flash-imprint a force sensitive clone (possibly C'boath, Luke, Vader, possibly Sa Cuis)

The question would be, is it a good idea to rapid-and flash clone Force-Sensitives?

- - -

[Crown]

So you really believe Thrawn set his backup to ten years out of choice. Uh-huh.

Believe? No. Flat out know because it was explicitly stated in canon by the only two characters who witnessed the clone inside it's cylinder? Yes. It was on a 10year countdown, not a 10 year gestation.

[Thanas]

So you really believe Thrawn set his backup to ten years out of choice. Uh-huh.

Believe? No. Flat out know because it was explicitly stated in canon by the only two characters who witnessed the clone inside it's cylinder? Yes. It was on a 10year countdown, not a 10 year gestation.

To my knowledge, the countdown did not say whether it was gestation or not. Do you have a quote?

[Crown]

So you really believe Thrawn set his backup to ten years out of choice. Uh-huh.

Believe? No. Flat out know because it was explicitly stated in canon by the only two characters who witnessed the clone inside it's cylinder? Yes. It was on a 10year countdown, not a 10 year gestation.

To my knowledge, the countdown did not say whether it was gestation or not. Do you have a quote?

Nope, but what I do have was their supposition that 'he [Thrawn] reset the timer once every 10 years', you?

Look the point is this; we know there was a timer, we know it was set for 10 years, we can either assume that the clone was like all his other clones in Waayland (forget the name here) Mt Tantis with Yslamari on it's back and able to be popped out in 20 days, or it was already grown and left in stasis for 10 years and ready to be defrosted like Austin Powers every 10 years. Or it was grown slowly for 9.9 years and if he came back to 'reset the timer' the clone would ... what be flushed? Go into stasis?

In the absence of any evidence from you for the contrary I choose to believe that the clone followed the SOP for all the other ones he grew, which requires less of any other suppositions to be true.