America, the Censored ...

[CarsonPalmer]

I wonder if there are dirty references in the bible...

The Song of Solomon comes to mind here.

[CaptainChewbacca]

I wonder if there are dirty references in the bible...

The Song of Solomon comes to mind here.

1. How beautiful are thy feet with shoes, O prince's daughter! the joints of thy thighs are like jewels, the work of the hands of a cunning workman.

2. Thy navel is like a round goblet, which wanteth not liquor: thy belly is like an heap of wheat set about with lilies.

3. Thy two breasts are like two young roes that are twins.

It gets better from there.

[bobalot]

Ah, it seems the moral conservetards are on the march again. You know what pisses me off? It's when moderates try and accommodate these guys and their bullshit demands.

I have been told so many times that we have to "make allowances" and "respect" their beliefs, which involves caving in to their demands everytime. When have these fuckwits ever made allowances or respected anybody else?

[Highlord Laan]

I wonder if there are dirty references in the bible...

The Song of Solomon comes to mind here.

That's "da wurd ov Gawd."

Therefore, it's always allowed in all it's "glory" since it is obviously Holy Writ and beyond reproach.

[General Zod]

I wonder if there are dirty references in the bible...

The Song of Solomon comes to mind here.

Even better, the fable of Lot depicts his daughters drugging and raping him. I'll bet they conveniently leave that part out of Sunday school teachings.

[Ted C]

Oh dreary, dreary me... I live in Nashville.

[Simon_Jester]

Fascinating that certain Christians are even more uneasy about sex than people back in Shakespeare's day.

Remember, Shakespeare lived before the Victorian era, and arguably before the Puritans became a major influence; prudishness in the English-speaking world got a major jump-start during the mid-1600s and again during the 1800s.

Can someone please explain what is it that the Shakespear bit actually implies? I just never was good with early modern English, so I just don't get what is it that the censors actually object to (besides, you know, everything that they are scared of).

I believe the first quote is a vigina joke, the second is a sex joke and the third is a penis joke. I'm not entirely positive though.

Yep. You got it right.

Shakespeare made a surprisingly large number of penis jokes.

They are really sucking the joy out of childhood. I was always SO amused by shakespeare in middle school because of the intellectual stimualtion dirty references. I have fond memories of trying to ambush the English teacher with poems that references genitalia (She would read submissions and sometimes didn't read them all the way through)

I wonder if there are dirty references in the bible...

Yes.

But you've got to remember that this isn't permanent. Shakespeare survived Bowdler easily; the idea that something like this will even make a noteworthy dent in the overall presentation of his works around the world is a joke. For every school that tries to censor it, there will be dozens that don't.

[UnderAGreySky]

Look up the term "bowdlerize". We often believe that the past was sexually puritanical, but that was largely a product of the incredibly puritanical 19th century, which was indeed more puritanical than the times preceding it.

Oh boy do I know what you're talking about. Between the British and the Mughals (Islamic raiders/conquerors), India went from the land of the Kama Sutra - this has stuff like "About females acting the part of Males" and "On the various ways of Striking, and of the Sounds appropriate to them" - to a country where kissing wasn't shown in the movies till ten years ago. Fifteen years back, this advertisement caused the biggest furore EVER*. It's only a testament to changing times that today no one would bat an eyelid at so-called risque stuff like this.

And I'd put more blame on the Brits than the Mughals, the latter did not reach the bottom half of India much. Even when they did, they let the local kings rule as long as fealty was paid. So yeah, I blame it on the Brits! Mostly

*They were also investigated by..... the Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Animals!

[Master of Ossus]

Even better, the fable of Lot depicts his daughters drugging and raping him. I'll bet they conveniently leave that part out of Sunday school teachings.

Repeatedly. On separate nights. I was sort of left wondering how frickin' drunk he was while this was going on.

[The Dark]

Fascinating that certain Christians are even more uneasy about sex than people back in Shakespeare's day.

Look up the term "bowdlerize". We often believe that the past was sexually puritanical, but that was largely a product of the incredibly puritanical 19th century, which was indeed more puritanical than the times preceding it.

The middle class was incredibly puritanical in the 19th century. The upper and lower classes still tended to be rather "loose." It just happens that most of the literature extant from that time period was written by and/or for the middle class, so their views are the best represented in what's studied today.

[Questor]

Why does it bother me so much that the article referred to "Val" as a "home school teacher" instead of "parent"? The title seems somehow unwarranted. Just because she's home-schooling her kid doesn't really make her a "teacher" in my mind. That somehow denotes a professional title and implication of qualifications to me.

Exactly, but the home schoolers (and in the US, private schools) think anyone can teach. They even form these "cooperatives" where one parent who didn't fail science in high school will try to teach science, and another will try to teach history, and so on.

It's the train wreck.

[Patrick Degan]

Sorry what? You want Romeo and Juliet but without the sexuality? For your next trick are you going to demand they put on a Mid Summer Night's Dream without any reference to magic and fairies?

Oh, but Fundies are quite capable of asking for precisely that —"magic and fairies" actually being works of The Devil™.

[Hillary]

Shakespeare made a surprisingly large number of penis jokes.

Not really that surprising when you consider Shakespeare was writing for the whole of society, not just the elite. I very much doubt he'd have been thought of as high-brow in his day. We also have to take into account the society Willie (did you see what I did there ) existed in - sex was not the great hang up that it is now.

On the OP, I've always wondered how these mad Christians deal with the number of religious paintings that involve nakedness. Do they insist that someone stick fig leaves over the offending parts?

[Questor]

Shakespeare made a surprisingly large number of penis jokes.

Not really that surprising when you consider Shakespeare was writing for the whole of society, not just the elite. I very much doubt he'd have been thought of as high-brow in his day. We also have to take into account the society Willie (did you see what I did there ) existed in - sex was not the great hang up that it is now.

On the OP, I've always wondered how these mad Christians deal with the number of religious paintings that involve nakedness. Do they insist that someone stick fig leaves over the offending parts?

Amazingly, yes.

da Volteraa (I'm not sure if I'm spelling that right) painted over the genitalia in the Sistine Chapel. His nickname was breeches painter, I think.

[Surlethe]

In any case, look around you and read Christian arguments on child-rearing. It's all about "protecting" and "shielding" them from society.

Which sources are you basing this on?

[PeZook]

On the OP, I've always wondered how these mad Christians deal with the number of religious paintings that involve nakedness. Do they insist that someone stick fig leaves over the offending parts?

Dude, there's a 400 year old statue of Neptune in Gdańsk, in the middle of the old town. It showed Neptune as a completely naked man until the prudes demanded he be covered.

The result is this.

They literally thought nothing of devastating a historical piece of art to satisfy their own sensibilities. Oh my God, a greek penis! Quick, cover it! Think of the children!

[K. A. Pital]

It looks even worse now, as if he was sticking his penis into some sort of... tail? Ugh.

[PeZook]

It looks even worse now, as if he was sticking his penis into some sort of... tail? Ugh.

They literally drilled a hole in the statue's genitals and drove a huge-ass bolt through it to secure the tail (you can see it on the photo). The original tail was cut off and replaced with a plaster replica.

If anybody but the city did it, it would be considered grievous vandalism. Man...

[Darth Wong]

In any case, look around you and read Christian arguments on child-rearing. It's all about "protecting" and "shielding" them from society.

Which sources are you basing this on?

Are you being deliberately obtuse or something? Ever heard of Moral Majority? Focus on the Family? Have you ever bothered reading any of their position papers on "indecency" in the media? Have you ever seen any Christian group's comments on pornography or sexuality in the media? Hey, which groups have historically been pushing abstinence-only sex education in the US? Oh wait, I know! It's the fucking Bible thumpers again!

Are you just trying to jerk yourself off on the idea of being a contrarian, even when it's almost impossible to defend the opposing viewpoint without being a raving fundie moron?

[Sinewmire]

On the flip side, a woman who identified herself as Val, a home-school teacher from Hermitage, "struggled being here with my son. The sexuality was too much. Our children need to be more pure."

I'd got the opposite meaning from this, Mike - I immediately thought "Oh look, someone who supports home schooling is trying to save their children from living their lives. What a surprise."

What next, they'll be asking for disgusting words like Genital and Muslim to be removed from the dictionary too? I'd make a further joke about removing integral things from shakespeare, but Plekhanov nailed it.

Sorry what? You want Romeo and Juliet but without the sexuality? For your next trick are you going to demand they put on a Mid Summer Night's Dream without any reference to magic and fairies?

I think you mean Satanism and Demons, Plekhanov

[JME2]

** reads article **

You know, there are days I fucking hate this country.

[Simon_Jester]

Again, this sort of thing really is the actions of a lunatic fringe, albeit a broad fringe. The real danger is coming from other directions; the religious censors have already pretty much lost the culture wars except in the heart of what used to be their territory.

Exactly, but the home schoolers (and in the US, private schools) think anyone can teach. They even form these "cooperatives" where one parent who didn't fail science in high school will try to teach science, and another will try to teach history, and so on.
It's the train wreck.

Better that they form co-ops than that each is left to their own devices... better still that they actually enforce certification on home schoolers. That really ought to fall under the same category as deciding not to give your child medicine because vaccines are the work of the Devil; you shouldn't get to decide whether your child needs to understand math and science above a sixth grade level.

[Vendetta]

It looks even worse now, as if he was sticking his penis into some sort of... tail? Ugh.

They literally drilled a hole in the statue's genitals and drove a huge-ass bolt through it to secure the tail (you can see it on the photo). The original tail was cut off and replaced with a plaster replica..

So in order to satisfy the sexually prudish, they gave him a Prince Albert?

[Surlethe]

In any case, look around you and read Christian arguments on child-rearing. It's all about "protecting" and "shielding" them from society.

Which sources are you basing this on?

Are you being deliberately obtuse or something? Ever heard of Moral Majority? Focus on the Family? Have you ever bothered reading any of their position papers on "indecency" in the media? Have you ever seen any Christian group's comments on pornography or sexuality in the media? Hey, which groups have historically been pushing abstinence-only sex education in the US? Oh wait, I know! It's the fucking Bible thumpers again!

Oh, you were talking about the Christians' positions on indecency in the media, not child-rearing. Forgive me for getting the wrong fucking impression when you said that evangelical beliefs on child-rearing are all about protecting and shielding thim from society. It's almost as though you somehow thought the vast majority of Christian arguments on child-rearing are about isolation from society.

[Darth Wong]

Are you being deliberately obtuse or something? Ever heard of Moral Majority? Focus on the Family? Have you ever bothered reading any of their position papers on "indecency" in the media? Have you ever seen any Christian group's comments on pornography or sexuality in the media? Hey, which groups have historically been pushing abstinence-only sex education in the US? Oh wait, I know! It's the fucking Bible thumpers again!

Oh, you were talking about the Christians' positions on indecency in the media, not child-rearing. Forgive me for getting the wrong fucking impression when you said that evangelical beliefs on child-rearing are all about protecting and shielding thim from society. It's almost as though you somehow thought the vast majority of Christian arguments on child-rearing are about isolation from society.

You're determined to be quite the pedantic little shit-slinger, aren't you? I had no idea that when I said Christian attitudes on child-rearing were all about protecting their innocence from the sins of the world, you would idiotically interpret the words "all about" literally, to mean that Christians have no opinions on any other aspect of child-rearing at all. Or perhaps you're just too full of yourself to admit that you stuck your foot in your mouth.