Pre-SOTU state of play, by Politifact.

N&P: Discuss governments, nations, politics and recent related news here.

Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital

Post Reply
User avatar
SirNitram
Rest in Peace, Black Mage
Posts: 28367
Joined: 2002-07-03 04:48pm
Location: Somewhere between nowhere and everywhere

Pre-SOTU state of play, by Politifact.

Post by SirNitram »

Non-partisan group Politifacts is very good at keeping the spin out.(A Pulitizer I think was WELL earned). So let's view their rundown on Obama's Promises in the time of the State Of The Union.

Promises Kept: 91.
Compromise: 33.
Broken: 15
Stalled: 87
In The Works: 275
N/A(Listed as not yet rated): 2.

Rundown of each category here: Link

Comments, critiques?
Manic Progressive: A liberal who violently swings from anger at politicos to despondency over them.

Out Of Context theatre: Ron Paul has repeatedly said he's not a racist. - Destructinator XIII on why Ron Paul isn't racist.

Shadowy Overlord - BMs/Black Mage Monkey - BOTM/Jetfire - Cybertron's Finest/General Miscreant/ASVS/Supermoderator Emeritus

Debator Classification: Trollhunter
User avatar
Big Phil
BANNED
Posts: 4555
Joined: 2004-10-15 02:18pm

Re: Pre-SOTU state of play, by Politifact.

Post by Big Phil »

The 91 kept promises are far outweighed by the handle of promises he's failed (so far) to keep or on which he has compromised or quit. Regardless of the specific promises, however, Obama's biggest failure to date is his inability to actually govern, and the inability of the Democrats to act like the party actually in the majority. They wasted all of the energy from the 2008 campaign on bickering and attempts at compromise, and now the country is entering 2010 depressed, feeling hopeless about the Democrats, and in some cases considering voting Republican or not voting at all in the 2010 elections, all because the Democrats are perceived as having given up on a number of issues important to Americans. Such a fucking waste... :roll:
In Brazil they say that Pele was the best, but Garrincha was better
User avatar
Garibaldi
Youngling
Posts: 119
Joined: 2009-03-31 12:52am
Location: The heart of Italia

Re: Pre-SOTU state of play, by Politifact.

Post by Garibaldi »

Obama's biggest failure to date is his inability to actually govern, and the inability of the Democrats to act like the party actually in the majority
While I don't think Obama has been nearly as aggressive as he ought to have been, and the Democratic Party is dysfunctiona joke, let's not lose sight of the fact that it is in fact the Republican Party which is making governance impossible. Even if Obama was whip-cracking the Dems around like they were Kunta Kinte and keeping them 100% in line (which would be impossible under the best of circumstances) it's difficult at best to govern in an environment where there is a radical minority party doing everything in their power to obstruct even the most basic functions of the government. Part of their failure is in fact a failure of the system itself.
User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 21559
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Pre-SOTU state of play, by Politifact.

Post by The Romulan Republic »

SancheztheWhaler wrote:The 91 kept promises are far outweighed by the handle of promises he's failed (so far) to keep or on which he has compromised or quit.
He is one fourth of the way through his first term. Faced with statistics that show 91 promises kept to 15 broken and 33 compromised, all you can say is that Obama hasn't done everything in his first year? :roll:

I'm disappointed with Obama too, but I never expected him to do everything in one year. I think that while some of the disappointment with Obama is justified, a lot of it is due to unrealistic expectations people had when in came in. People who interpreted "change" as "create their version of Utopia in his first hundred days."

He has a bad situation and four years to deal with it. Let him use them.
User avatar
Crossroads Inc.
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 9233
Joined: 2005-03-20 06:26pm
Location: Defending Sparkeling Bishonen
Contact:

Re: Pre-SOTU state of play, by Politifact.

Post by Crossroads Inc. »

The Romulan Republic wrote:
SancheztheWhaler wrote:The 91 kept promises are far outweighed by the handle of promises he's failed (so far) to keep or on which he has compromised or quit.
He is one fourth of the way through his first term. Faced with statistics that show 91 promises kept to 15 broken and 33 compromised, all you can say is that Obama hasn't done everything in his first year? :roll:

I'm disappointed with Obama too, but I never expected him to do everything in one year. I think that while some of the disappointment with Obama is justified, a lot of it is due to unrealistic expectations people had when in came in. People who interpreted "change" as "create their version of Utopia in his first hundred days."

He has a bad situation and four years to deal with it. Let him use them.
Oh please.. this isn't a matter of him doing everything in the first year, it is a matter of him doing ANYTHING in the first year. Everything that has come up has been a fucking waste cause he can't get the people in the House together.
Praying is another way of doing nothing helpful
"Congratulations, you get a cookie. You almost got a fundamental English word correct." Pick
"Outlaw star has spaceships that punch eachother" Joviwan
Read "Tales From The Crossroads"!
Read "One Wrong Turn"!
User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 21559
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Pre-SOTU state of play, by Politifact.

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Thank you for ignoring what I just posted.

91 promises kept. Maybe you have a problem with the credibility of the source for that number. But in that case, present your evidence. Don't just ignore it.

And the House isn't the problem so much as the Senate is.
User avatar
SirNitram
Rest in Peace, Black Mage
Posts: 28367
Joined: 2002-07-03 04:48pm
Location: Somewhere between nowhere and everywhere

Re: Pre-SOTU state of play, by Politifact.

Post by SirNitram »

Crossroads Inc. wrote:Oh please.. this isn't a matter of him doing everything in the first year, it is a matter of him doing ANYTHING in the first year. Everything that has come up has been a fucking waste cause he can't get the people in the House together.
House actually passes alot of his bills. You're thinking the Senate, which the GOP has, sadly, successfully overturned the Constitutional requirement of a simple majority by their ridiculous tactics. The Senate, as alot of people say, is where good bills go to die.

Frankly, though, I take exception at your opinion of nothing worthwhile passing. The EPA finally declaring greenhouse gases harmful, the SEC now requiring disclosure of public companies on their enviromental impact, the Credit Card Bill of Rights, the Fed's ban on overdraft at ATMs and debit cards(Going into effect soon!), and his negotiations for a new nuclear reduction treaty with RUssia.. Aren't wasted effort. Nor is the Matthew Sheppard Act, expanded to include gender identity. THat was huge, especially the expansion. And me, personally can name more, but I love me research initiatives.
Manic Progressive: A liberal who violently swings from anger at politicos to despondency over them.

Out Of Context theatre: Ron Paul has repeatedly said he's not a racist. - Destructinator XIII on why Ron Paul isn't racist.

Shadowy Overlord - BMs/Black Mage Monkey - BOTM/Jetfire - Cybertron's Finest/General Miscreant/ASVS/Supermoderator Emeritus

Debator Classification: Trollhunter
User avatar
Big Phil
BANNED
Posts: 4555
Joined: 2004-10-15 02:18pm

Re: Pre-SOTU state of play, by Politifact.

Post by Big Phil »

I don't care about the numbers of piddly promises kept; there were a few BIG things he said he would do that he hasn't done yet. I'd be satisfied if there were at least a reasonable plan to complete it in place, but all we're getting is flowery speeches and empty promises.

1. End the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan - there's a "plan" for getting out, but I have as much confidence in that plan as I would of George W. Bush successfully running a sports team.

2. Healthcare - he spent all of 2009 acting like a Senator rather than the President. Instead of saying "healthcare must address these things" he kept silent while Democrats and Republicans alike developed a bill that pretty much only serves to screw over the American public while enriching the health insurance companies.

3. Fix the economy/Wall Street - Obama talks a good game about benefiting Main Street rather than Wall Street, but it's only Wall Street being paid millions of dollars in bonuses using taxpayer money while Main Street continues to suffer job losses.

4. Balance the budget - despite spending money like a drunken sailor, neither Obama nor the Democrats have done anything to either increase revenues/taxes or cut expenses. Instead they're content to perpetually run trillion dollar deficits and pray to the gods that the economy will turn around to bail them out. What happened to Obama's vaunted "eliminate the Bush era tax cuts" pledge? That's a pretty major one that everyone not a Republican would happily support, and yet it hasn't happened.
In Brazil they say that Pele was the best, but Garrincha was better
User avatar
SirNitram
Rest in Peace, Black Mage
Posts: 28367
Joined: 2002-07-03 04:48pm
Location: Somewhere between nowhere and everywhere

Re: Pre-SOTU state of play, by Politifact.

Post by SirNitram »

4. Balance the budget
I'm going to give him some credit for this for two reasons:

Reinstation of PAYGO, so we can finally begin to repair the damage of Bush's era, when, as the GOP said, SOP was not to pay.

Recession. Big one. One not going away. Hoover was a failure in the Great Depression because he straddled the 'balance the budget' canard and humped it vigorously.
Manic Progressive: A liberal who violently swings from anger at politicos to despondency over them.

Out Of Context theatre: Ron Paul has repeatedly said he's not a racist. - Destructinator XIII on why Ron Paul isn't racist.

Shadowy Overlord - BMs/Black Mage Monkey - BOTM/Jetfire - Cybertron's Finest/General Miscreant/ASVS/Supermoderator Emeritus

Debator Classification: Trollhunter
User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 21559
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Pre-SOTU state of play, by Politifact.

Post by The Romulan Republic »

SancheztheWhaler wrote:1. End the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan - there's a "plan" for getting out, but I have as much confidence in that plan as I would of George W. Bush successfully running a sports team.
He never promised he was going to leave Afghanistan. He promised he would make it a priority (unlike Bush), and he's done that.
2. Healthcare - he spent all of 2009 acting like a Senator rather than the President. Instead of saying "healthcare must address these things" he kept silent while Democrats and Republicans alike developed a bill that pretty much only serves to screw over the American public while enriching the health insurance companies.
He did make that one big speech where he outlined what he wanted, and it sounded pretty good to me. For that matter, the Bill that came out of the House wasn't that bad. The main problem lies in the Senate, and the fact is, while Obama could have been more vocal and insistent, he cannot force 60 Senators to vote the way he wants.
3. Fix the economy/Wall Street - Obama talks a good game about benefiting Main Street rather than Wall Street, but it's only Wall Street being paid millions of dollars in bonuses using taxpayer money while Main Street continues to suffer job losses.
Not entirely fair, unless you are going to completely dismiss Obama's claims of jobs saved through the stimulus programs.
4. Balance the budget - despite spending money like a drunken sailor, neither Obama nor the Democrats have done anything to either increase revenues/taxes or cut expenses. Instead they're content to perpetually run trillion dollar deficits and pray to the gods that the economy will turn around to bail them out. What happened to Obama's vaunted "eliminate the Bush era tax cuts" pledge? That's a pretty major one that everyone not a Republican would happily support, and yet it hasn't happened.
Well, there is the new spending freeze.
User avatar
Count Chocula
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1821
Joined: 2008-08-19 01:34pm
Location: You've asked me for my sacrifice, and I am winter born

Re: Pre-SOTU state of play, by Politifact.

Post by Count Chocula »

If you look at the "Promises Kept" listing, there are a few in there that are actually good; the "send two brigades to Afghanistan" one is a plus.

However, the "Promises Broken," "Promises Stalled," and "Promises in the Works" columns are filled with much more substantitive issues than those kept. Really, how many Americans really give a fuck about Promise # 174? And, as a larger consideration, why the fuck did he make so many promises to so many different factions? Trying to fulfill them all means that he will most likely piss off dozens of factions in his own party, much less the Republican. For a guy whose campaign mantra was the amorphous "Hope And Change," he made a lot of specific commitments that will inevitably bite him on the ass. The Politifact link is informative, no doubt, but it would be nice if at least a WAG was made regarding the scale and impact of the "promises" he made. Maybe a weighted estimate of the impact of one promise kept, postponed, etc. on the totality of his promises? At least try to quantify the impact.

From what I can see, he's kept the easy one-signature promises and postponed the contentious ones. The disarray that is currently the Democratic party seems to support that conclusion.
Image
The only people who were safe were the legion; after one of their AT-ATs got painted dayglo pink with scarlet go faster stripes, they identified the perpetrators and exacted revenge. - Eleventh Century Remnant

Lord Monckton is my heeerrooo

"Yeah, well, fuck them. I never said I liked the Moros." - Shroom Man 777
User avatar
Oskuro
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2698
Joined: 2005-05-25 06:10am
Location: Barcelona, Spain

Re: Pre-SOTU state of play, by Politifact.

Post by Oskuro »

I'm a bit out of the loop but, wouldn't the most important promises, the ones with greater impact and thus more controversial, be the ones made harder to fulfill by the opposition?

I'm personally tired of how people get tunnel vision when it comes to politics, only caring about blaming the current government about what ails them, without taking notice of the actions and consequences of previous governments, or the actions of the oppossing parties.
The worst part is that these gut reactions is what parties like the GOP capitalize on, instead of offering alternative solutions, they focus on making people hate their opponents, and it is very sad how often this technique works.
unsigned
User avatar
Stargate Nerd
Padawan Learner
Posts: 491
Joined: 2007-11-25 09:54pm
Location: NJ

Re: Pre-SOTU state of play, by Politifact.

Post by Stargate Nerd »

Blaming Republicans and the Senate for healthcare stalling is pretty convenient, but last I remember Obama didn't do jack to convince or pressure Lincoln, Landrieu, Nelson or Lieberman to support a decent healthcare reform bill. Lieberman said as much on TV after the whole Medicare Buy In debacle.

As for this list, yes Obama is an improvement on Bush. But on all the most important things like financial regulation, healthcare reform, global warming etc. he utterly failed.
User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 21559
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Pre-SOTU state of play, by Politifact.

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Stargate Nerd wrote:Blaming Republicans and the Senate for healthcare stalling is pretty convenient, but last I remember Obama didn't do jack to convince or pressure Lincoln, Landrieu, Nelson or Lieberman to support a decent healthcare reform bill. Lieberman said as much on TV after the whole Medicare Buy In debacle.
Maybe, but I'm going to take anything Lieberman says on the matter with a big fucking grain of salt.
As for this list, yes Obama is an improvement on Bush. But on all the most important things like financial regulation, healthcare reform, global warming etc. he utterly failed.
He still has at least three more years. To say that he has failed one quarter (or one eighth) of the way through is a bit premature to me.
Post Reply