The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Eighty One Up

[Mr Bean]

Damn, angelic market bombings. Where did they get the c4, where did they get the plans. And how had they gotten the nerve so quickly to contact start this up.

Another thought occurred to me reading last week. Before Michael-lan kept everyone's favorite Demon in a box to prevent anyone from contacting him and using his mind to open a portal into heaven. Now that he's active they can repeat the Demios(sp?) trick of using everyone's favorite Gorgon to lock in on him and pop open a portal into heaven. If he's out in the camp's I don't think he's going to be shielded 24/7.

[Stuart Mackey]

Heavens internal shenanigans are interesting, still for a coup plotter, a days work is never done (excepting Fiji, where coups are postponed for rugby games)

[Simon_Jester]

"Come up to periscope depth. Prepare to snort." The spirits sitting on ben Shoshan's shoulder were screaming warnings again but without charged batteries, his submarine was completely helpless. "Navigation, set course for Gibraltar and maximum snorting speed. Engines, run the diesels as soon as the snort is up and get those batteries charged. Communications, get through to Tel Aviv, find out what is going on and why."

This is going to be interesting: I wonder whether the various fleets in the Mediterranean will give them a chance to surrender.

I can't guess; anger says "fill them full of torpedoes before they can blink," while common sense says "we need to know what the hell happened, and how to stop it from happening twice?"

"Arrgggh. My head." His voice was suffused with suffering... "Truly The Lord of All was right in saying that indulgence brings grave punishment." Lemuel's voice was cracked with the force of his hangover."

Given angelic physiology, he must have been on a bender of, well, Biblical proportions... Wow.

[Darmalus]

This is going to be interesting: I wonder whether the various fleets in the Mediterranean will give them a chance to surrender.

I can't guess; anger says "fill them full of torpedoes before they can blink," while common sense says "we need to know what the hell happened, and how to stop it from happening twice?"

Even if they blow them up on sight, they can still pick them up when they appear in hell.

Besides, didn't they use up their entire load of weapons? While boarding would be dangerous, aren't they limited to ramming or running now?

[Jamesfirecat]

Given that the "lost" sub has launched ALL of its nukes (we're sure of that right?) I think its reasonably likely that they'll be given a chance to surrender rather than just shot full of holes at first chance given that its not like they can do any further real damage (I mean they could torpedo some ships but that is about it), so humanity would be cutting of its nose to spite its face if they engaged in blind revenge simply for the sake of revenge rather than trying to gain some information by capturing the crew of the sub alive (though I suppose they could be captured "dead' fairly easily too, granted the angels might be able to "jack" their souls and take them to heaven instead of hell so its probably safest to capture them during their first life if we can.


As for the market bombing, interesting stuff, its interesting that this third conspiracy seems to be very well versed in the human military, wonder what kind of people make it up, it can't exactly be the angels who have gotten into fight with humans recently since they don't exactly come back to heaven all that frequently so its not like there could be an entire conspiracy made up of disaffected angels who fought humans and realized it was worthless to try or something.

I wonder what the third conspiracies end goals are, are they another one like the second which wants to make sure Yahweh clearly understands what's going on or do they want to replace him?

Finally good for you for giving us another scene of humans in heaven Stewart, I hope we get more of them!

[Jamesfirecat]

This is going to be interesting: I wonder whether the various fleets in the Mediterranean will give them a chance to surrender.

I can't guess; anger says "fill them full of torpedoes before they can blink," while common sense says "we need to know what the hell happened, and how to stop it from happening twice?"

Even if they blow them up on sight, they can still pick them up when they appear in hell.

Besides, didn't they use up their entire load of weapons? While boarding would be dangerous, aren't they limited to ramming or running now?

See my post below, for all we know the Lieutenant of the sub has made arrangements that his soul will go to heaven when he dies thus leaving us with only the rest of the crew who have no idea what happened. Better to take them all alive though he might commit suicide rather than be captured...

[Hofner1962]

Isn't it possible that Michael set up the bombing himself as a means of controlling the threat of the other conspiracy.

As for them bringing any souls to Heaven, it seems to me that they may have said they would but not follow through.

[Gerald Tarrant]

I like that, as the first free human into Heaven Mike Wong and his fighter have become the defacto Earthly heralds of Reason. Bringing their message of Peace and Firepower to the bereft denizens of heaven.

[tricksterson]

Hofner1962: That's the impression I got too.

Long time lurker, first time poster and I have a question that's been bugging me for some time. Now I understand that Yahweh and company defeated and drove away the western pagan pantheons, but the eastern pantheons (Hindu, Shinto etc) have been going strong all along. So where are they and why did their followers get sent to Hell. They did right?

[UnderAGreySky]

As for the market bombing, interesting stuff, its interesting that this third conspiracy seems to be very well versed in the human military, wonder what kind of people make it up, it can't exactly be the angels who have gotten into fight with humans recently since they don't exactly come back to heaven all that frequently so its not like there could be an entire conspiracy made up of disaffected angels who fought humans and realized it was worthless to try or something.

I wonder what the third conspiracies end goals are, are they another one like the second which wants to make sure Yahweh clearly understands what's going on or do they want to replace him?

I read it as Michael set it up with an intent to blame someone else...

[Jamesfirecat]

As for the market bombing, interesting stuff, its interesting that this third conspiracy seems to be very well versed in the human military, wonder what kind of people make it up, it can't exactly be the angels who have gotten into fight with humans recently since they don't exactly come back to heaven all that frequently so its not like there could be an entire conspiracy made up of disaffected angels who fought humans and realized it was worthless to try or something.

I wonder what the third conspiracies end goals are, are they another one like the second which wants to make sure Yahweh clearly understands what's going on or do they want to replace him?

I read it as Michael set it up with an intent to blame someone else...

While I'll give you that would be a particuarly magnificent bit of magnificent bastardy, the fact that Micheal seems so set on interrogating Salaphael, and nobody seems to know who was responsible for getting that sub to launch the nukes, the fact that we haven't seen Micheal making plans to do something like this (was busy getting hammered and high at the club) suggests that it wasn't him, at least to my way of reading the story...

[Eevin]

I just signed in to say how much I love this story. I like how the characters seem realistic, they try they fail, they plan and sometimes they even win.

I think that the sub business means that the Other Ones are more active that one would think, May it be that humans are their master plan against Hell and Heaven?

[Baughn]

Hofner1962: That's the impression I got too.

Long time lurker, first time poster and I have a question that's been bugging me for some time. Now I understand that Yahweh and company defeated and drove away the western pagan pantheons, but the eastern pantheons (Hindu, Shinto etc) have been going strong all along. So where are they and why did their followers get sent to Hell. They did right?

It varies.

Some of the pantheons don't exist as distinct entitites; they're Yahweh and/or Satan pretending to be multiple gods, for whatever reason.

Some others (we assume) do, and simply got pushed out by these ones. The pantheons still exist - somewhere - but they don't have access to earth, and can't do whatever is done to suck up minds at death. I rather hope we'll run into them in the third book; most were gits, but in the polytheistic pantheons there was usually someone sympathetic. Think Balder, or Hephaestus.

[tricksterson]

Don't know too much about the Eastern pantheons but have generally gotten the impression that they weren't that bad.

[Setzer]

I'm assuming the Jerome who was mentioned was the same one responsible for the eponymous Vulgate?

[Edward Yee]

Typo:

Our Lord, Israfil, was satning in front of it and the Bird spat fire at him.

All that's 'confirmed' is that Yahweh and Satan exist(ed), along with the demons, angels, nephilim, devils, etc., and the status of any further deities has yet to be explored, although IIRC it was Captain Chewbacca who posted his own excerpt of what GEN Petraeus storming Valhalla would look like. However, considering that the Torah/Biblical/Quranic depictions of the aforementioned are in TSW revealed to be mostly bullshit, there's no sign that the non-Abrahamic deities are any better, even whoever's been looking out for Gaius Julius Caesar.

By the way, three points of interest for me:

He had supplied Ben-Shoshan with the forged messages that had authorized the missile launch and then set the Tekuma on course for the Straits of Gibraltar but after that, the supply was ended and future actions were left vague. He hadn’t received any more visions from his Angelic leader either. In fact, Yitzchak noted, he'd never received any such messages while he was on the submarine. Only when he had been ashore.

Very interesting Chekhov's Gun you've got here, Stuart. I hope that the Salvation War Israeli Navy is at least competent enough to be checking that he's been wearing his tinfoil head cover?? The wording suggests that he was mentally ensnared earlier, but that the onboard electronics suite of the Tekuma may have blocked any follow-up; I'm guessing it has nothing to do with the submarine's current depth. Second:

"It is indeed. If you like, you can leave Maion-Lan-Lemuel's allowance for the same period with us and we will be sure she gets it on schedule."

Lemuel looked at her doubtfully. He could see several objections to that plan.

So Lemuel's still got enough wits left (albeit thanks to the Excedrin I guess) to be skeptical of this, and to earlier see that something's up with the low monetary cost of becoming Maion's patron, huh? And finally:

"Not human. Humans would have made reference to 'the people' and phrased this differently. The reference to The Divine and the way this is written sounds to me like a group of Angels who are trying to copy humans."

The other factor I can think of, but which Michael probably can't afford to admit to Lemuel, is that Humanity would probably just say "fuck it" and roll in the tanks and bombers if they could create (or hijack) and maintain a sustainable portal, instead of just planting a pair of bombs. Considering the earlier rules of engagement that COL Stevenson mentioned, I'm not sure whether the CIA or any other human intelligence services would have done this unless they had been that unaware of Heavenly society.

[CaptainChewbacca]

All that's 'confirmed' is that Yahweh and Satan exist(ed), along with the demons, angels, nephilim, devils, etc., and the status of any further deities has yet to be explored, although IIRC it was Shroomy who posted his own excerpt of what GEN Petraeus storming Valhalla would look like.

Actually, that was me.

[Jamesfirecat]

Typo:

Our Lord, Israfil, was satning in front of it and the Bird spat fire at him.

All that's 'confirmed' is that Yahweh and Satan exist(ed), along with the demons, angels, nephilim, devils, etc., and the status of any further deities has yet to be explored, although IIRC it was Shroomy who posted his own excerpt of what GEN Petraeus storming Valhalla would look like. However, considering that the Torah/Biblical/Quranic depictions of the aforementioned are in TSW revealed to be mostly bullshit, there's no sign that the non-Abrahamic deities are any better, even whoever's been looking out for Gaius Julius Caesar.

By the way, three points of interest for me:

He had supplied Ben-Shoshan with the forged messages that had authorized the missile launch and then set the Tekuma on course for the Straits of Gibraltar but after that, the supply was ended and future actions were left vague. He hadn’t received any more visions from his Angelic leader either. In fact, Yitzchak noted, he'd never received any such messages while he was on the submarine. Only when he had been ashore.

Very interesting Chekhov's Gun you've got here, Stuart. I hope that the Salvation War Israeli Navy is at least competent enough to be checking that he's been wearing his tinfoil head cover?? The wording suggests that he was mentally ensnared earlier, but that the onboard electronics suite of the Tekuma may have blocked any follow-up; I'm guessing it has nothing to do with the submarine's current depth. Second:

"It is indeed. If you like, you can leave Maion-Lan-Lemuel's allowance for the same period with us and we will be sure she gets it on schedule."

Lemuel looked at her doubtfully. He could see several objections to that plan.

So Lemuel's still got enough wits left (albeit thanks to the Excedrin I guess) to be skeptical of this, and to earlier see that something's up with the low monetary cost of becoming Maion's patron, huh? And finally:

"Not human. Humans would have made reference to 'the people' and phrased this differently. The reference to The Divine and the way this is written sounds to me like a group of Angels who are trying to copy humans."

The other factor I can think of, but which Michael probably can't afford to admit to Lemuel, is that Humanity would probably just say "fuck it" and roll in the tanks and bombers if they could create (or hijack) and maintain a sustainable portal, instead of just planting a pair of bombs. Considering the earlier rules of engagement that COL Stevenson mentioned, I'm not sure whether the CIA or any other human intelligence services would have done this unless they had been that unaware of Heavenly society.

In regards to your last point, i think Micheal was talking about the idea of a rebellion in Heaven which is truly working from the ground up, which is made mostly of humans calling the shots with a few angels as go betweens to get them the C4 they'd need to pull of a trick like that rather than this being some kind of attack from Earth on Heaven.

[Edward Yee]

Actually, that was me.

Editted accordingly.

Jamesfirecat, the wording made it look as if Michael-lan was trying to tell Lemuel that it was just Angels. Then again, come to think of it... that's a subtle way of throwing Lemuel further off of his trail, but associating the idea of "Angel with human methods" with this new, hidden enemy and less so from himself.

Also, a new possible Chekhov's Gun I forgot to mention earlier:

With Satan dead at the hands of humans, cosmic balance demanded that a new force must arise.

It'd actually be interesting if someone among the humans in Heaven did take the trail of thought about the humans on Earth to its logical conclusion, and mistakenly believe that the "Great Gray Bird" was actually an (attempted) one-ship Thunder Run instead of pure coincidence.

[Shroom Man 777]

Very interesting Chekhov's Gun you've got here, Stuart. I hope that the Salvation War Israeli Navy is at least competent enough to be checking that he's been wearing his tinfoil head cover?? The wording suggests that he was mentally ensnared earlier, but that the onboard electronics suite of the Tekuma may have blocked any follow-up; I'm guessing it has nothing to do with the submarine's current depth.

He could've been "ensnared" long before Armageddon, and long before tinfoil hats became fashionable, leading him to not wear tinfoil hats, or to take them off in private so he can talk to his gods.

Also, if tinfoil can block angel brainwaves, then I think submarine hulls would be even more effective.

@ STUART:

Oh yeah, this reminds me. You once said that Uriel's death powers would not affect pilots in planes because of their shielding. But Uriel's powers were able to kill people inside houses, behind concrete and layers of tinfoil, just fine. Could planes and cockpit canopies really be more resistant to Uriel's death powers than buildings decked out in foil?

[Buritot]

That is a strange little chapter.

Would conspiracy even be the proper term for the Heaven terrorists? It doesn't matter. It's imho unlikely for the heaven-dwelling humans to be supported by angels. The whole society strikes me as very hierarchical and set on gaining the most of personal benefits one is able to. That doesn't really inspire a lot of insurgent spirit. The humans are in large submissive - it was after all the main selection criteria, whereas the angels aspire good standing to their lords. All this makes angels supporting humans ring hollow.
It might be possible, though, if they had been under, say, inspiring circumstances for a few years. The Montmartre counts. you're living a few decades in parallel society which though not abandoning ranks does take a few edges off of them. Humans might feel inclined to better the status of their kin in Heaven, whereas angels would like to be able to rise ranks beyond the glass ceiling. They wouldn't need to overthrow the system as a whole for that, just make it make amendments/changes in their cause.

Also, angels supporting humans? If they'd be interested in that, they'd open a portal to DIMO(N) and let it open for a few minutes or something.
Next, Michael doesn't know it was C4. He knows something exploded all right, but for all he knows it could have been locally produced gun powder. But he might suspect the person(s) planting the bombs had been in contact with relatively recent humans, or Earth, to know how to increase the bombs' effectiveness.

[tricksterson]

On the Isreali sub surrendering: I think the orders would be capture if possible rather than destroy for three reasons:

They already know that it shot it's nuclear wad so capturing it wouldn't be that difficult once they locate it.

They'll want to know just what the heck happened ASAP and the whole process of recovery once they get to Hell would delay it.

What group of politicians could resist the prospect of putting them on trial for the crime of this or any other century? The Greatest Show on Earth!

[Jamesfirecat]

Very interesting Chekhov's Gun you've got here, Stuart. I hope that the Salvation War Israeli Navy is at least competent enough to be checking that he's been wearing his tinfoil head cover?? The wording suggests that he was mentally ensnared earlier, but that the onboard electronics suite of the Tekuma may have blocked any follow-up; I'm guessing it has nothing to do with the submarine's current depth.

He could've been "ensnared" long before Armageddon, and long before tinfoil hats became fashionable, leading him to not wear tinfoil hats, or to take them off in private so he can talk to his gods.

Also, if tinfoil can block angel brainwaves, then I think submarine hulls would be even more effective.

@ STUART:

Oh yeah, this reminds me. You once said that Uriel's death powers would not affect pilots in planes because of their shielding. But Uriel's powers were able to kill people inside houses, behind concrete and layers of tinfoil, just fine. Could planes and cockpit canopies really be more resistant to Uriel's death powers than buildings decked out in foil?

Aren't a lot of the planes that we've made these days designed to be built to resist EMP attacks? Just pulling this out of my flame tuffted tail but if a plane is designed to be able to resist EMP attacks then it would doubtlessly be more than proof against Uriel's attacks.

That said allow me to offer you yet another answer in case you didn't like my first.

Its pretty clear that when the subject has any kind of shielding it takes Uriel a few minutes to break it down and kill them with him seeming to do little but concentrate on killing his targets.

It's probably a lot easier for him to concentrate on targets that stay relatively still on the ground rather than the ones that are zooming around with him up there in the clouds at over 700 MPH. Thus if Uriel tried to focus his powers on bringing his particular brand of peace to the pilots of the planes attacking him, he might be able to mess with their heads a little, but he'd also be in no position to take any sort of evasive manuevers himself, and I don't think Uriel is going to win the race of which happens first, the pilots loose the ability to stop breathing or their missiles/cannons rip Uriel to shreds.

[Simon_Jester]

I'm given to understand that EMP is... a bit overrated. Also, EMP shielding is designed to protect electronics, specifically, against the effects of a brief surge of power induced in the wiring by the EMP. It doesn't make the entire aircraft completely immune to electromagnetics of any kind, and any kind of 'surge protection' of that sort will be less effective against a continuous-wave broadcast.

You can block everything with a good enough Faraday cage, but there's no reason to assume that a cage that blocks nuclear EMPs of a given intensity will also block the Uriel death-ray effect.

[Buritot]

In case of Iruels powers: I think he needs a clear concept to think on for them to work, for example "this valley shall die" or "everything I see: DIE". Albeit he had a huge amount of energy to he could put into it, there were factors preventing him to snuff everyone out:
- area of effect
- shielding
- disposition towards death/defeat
- distractions

He had a relatively small are of effect in mind, however there was always some kind of shielding to dampen the effect, as well as the stubbornness/unwillingness to be defeated. All the aircraft shooting at him PLUS trying to open a portal probably did take a giant toll on his concentration as well as gaping holes in his body.