Mass Effect 2 Gameplay

[Stark]

How does that make sense?

[adam_grif]

It doesn't.

37 million years of electricity on a ship that was already destroyed. Wow.

[Stark]

And why the Sovereign gambit when they could have jumped in the whole goddamn time?

[General Zod]

Tens of millions of years of advancing technology to find a drive technology that doesn't have the same problem?

I just found out that
Spoiler

The derelict reaper has been maintaining a ME field for 37 million years.

All illusions of being internally consistent and trying to be plausible have been totally shattered.

LOL. You mean it wasn't painfully obvious when they went heat sinks = ammo?

[SylasGaunt]

And why the Sovereign gambit when they could have jumped in the whole goddamn time?

IIRC the protheans basically managed to break the remote activation for the main relay, hence why Sovvy had to fly in and activate it personally. Without that they have to take the long way.

All illusions of being internally consistent and trying to be plausible have been totally shattered.

Spoiler

It's also been sitting near that brown dwarf so it could very well have been discharging into the star's magnetic field the whole time. Plus IIRC the charge only builds up during FTL use so the dead mecha-cthulhu wouldn't have any problems in that area.

Also given how advanced they are it's entirely possible that between their lack of fleshy crewmen and their generally higher tech base their need to discharge is either reduced (either by accumulating more slowly or just being able to handle a fuckton more) or eliminated. Hell it's entirely possible the discharge requirement is something the reapers built into the tech they left behind to further gimp the opposition.

[adam_grif]

And why the Sovereign gambit when they could have jumped in the whole goddamn time?

Or why were the collectors
Spoiler

Building a whole new reaper when they had a 99.99% in-tact, still completely functional reaper lying around somewhere?

Why not just fix that one up a bit?

They knew it was there, they set a fucking trap on it.

Or why not build more than 1 fucking collector ship? Why do they only have one ship?

Why didn't the collector ship join in on the initial attack on the Citadel since it's clearly far more powerful than any conventional alliance or citadel ship?

[Agent Fisher]

Mordin after asking if he had time to talk: "Perhaps later, trying to determine how Scale Itch got onto Normandy. Sexually Transmitted Disease, only carried by Varren...implications unpleasant." OR "Working on Collector data. Have ruled out artificially intelligent virus. Unless it's very intelligent and toying with me. Hmmm."

God, I think Mordin has some of hte best lines ever.

[adam_grif]

Ghetto edit
Spoiler

How far away do you think that is?

[White Haven]

Here's a thought...
Spoiler

I wonder what species the Sovereign-pattern Reapers are based off of? The Human-pattern was going to look like a stylized human, after all. Whatever race it was, they must have been either the origin of the Reapers, or a species that put up one HELL of a fight to be around long enough for the Reapers to need to manufacture so many from them.

[open_sketchbook]

@adam_grif
Spoiler

The Reaper in question is effectively braindead, operating on passive systems. My guess is that Reaper's minds are created from a twisted collection of the consciousness of sentient species that have been collected; it's not something you just do. Reapers are not ships, they're mechanical spaceborne dark gods (or so they like to think) so it makes sense that there would be a ritualized way of creating them rather then simply mass-manufacturing them. Hence the collecting.

As for the static charge thing, static charge gets dangerous in most ships because there are organics aboard. However, the Reapers haven't such a restriction; they can probably dedicate vast amounts of internal space to huge superconducting coils that store the charge until they can discharge it.

The Collectors are not a race in the traditional sense, they are more or less a cult built out of the indoctrinated remains of a real civilization. The Collector ship is actually an ancient Prothean battleship; it's probably the only one of it's kind left. The Collectors exist as a means of "summoning" new Reapers; it's not their job to fight wars or build ships.

[Pulp Hero]

Here's a thought...
Spoiler

I wonder what species the Sovereign-pattern Reapers are based off of? The Human-pattern was going to look like a stylized human, after all. Whatever race it was, they must have been either the origin of the Reapers, or a species that put up one HELL of a fight to be around long enough for the Reapers to need to manufacture so many from them.

Spoiler

Protheans? We know that genetic tinkering is common and the Protheans of the past may have looked very different.

Also, unrelated; Does anyone think that the Illusive Man has plans to turn himself into a Reaper/Reaper like being. I don't know why I getting that vibe, but I am getting it really strongly.

[Vympel]

DO NOT DO THE IFF MISSION UNTIL YOU'VE DONE EVERYTHING ELSE.

Thanks. Guess I dodged a bullet on that one (what bullet, I don't know yet though )

I've got to do Mordin and Grunt's loyalty missions, presumably Samaras, then I'm going to do every N7 mission I can find. Then I'll do the IFF thing.

[adam_grif]

@adam_grif
Spoiler

The Reaper in question is effectively braindead, operating on passive systems. My guess is that Reaper's minds are created from a twisted collection of the consciousness of sentient species that have been collected; it's not something you just do. Reapers are not ships, they're mechanical spaceborne dark gods (or so they like to think) so it makes sense that there would be a ritualized way of creating them rather then simply mass-manufacturing them. Hence the collecting.

As for the static charge thing, static charge gets dangerous in most ships because there are organics aboard. However, the Reapers haven't such a restriction; they can probably dedicate vast amounts of internal space to huge superconducting coils that store the charge until they can discharge it.

The Collectors are not a race in the traditional sense, they are more or less a cult built out of the indoctrinated remains of a real civilization. The Collector ship is actually an ancient Prothean battleship; it's probably the only one of it's kind left. The Collectors exist as a means of "summoning" new Reapers; it's not their job to fight wars or build ships.

So they're stupid?

Kk.
Spoiler

The collectors can just build more of their battleships that are far superior. They've been operating in the galaxy for centuries. They had plenty of time to build an armada.

The reapers are giving them orders. They would have to be fucking stupid to behave like they are in the game.

[open_sketchbook]

Spoiler

The Reapers can kill whatever they want by themselves. They don't need the bugs to kill stuff; that's what the Reapers DO. What they do need the Collectors for is making more Reapers. The Collectors are the reproductive system of the Reapers. When I think deadly weapon, I typically don't think "uterus", even if you could concievably smother somebody with one, I don't bother because I have hands.

Who knows how many species the Collectors turned into Reapers since they were created? Maybe they have been building an armada, but not of Collector ships!

In addition, there is a very good possibility that the Collectors can't build the old Prothean technology anymore. Perhaps the organic additions they make to everything is the result of lacking the ability to manipulate traditional technology, and they are forced to rely on growing a set of pre-engineered creatures left by the Reapers from the days of indoctrination.

[adam_grif]

And hey, why didn't
Spoiler

Sovreign just tell Saren to tell the council about Sovreign? He was already indoctrinated. Why not just bring the council on board for a tour of this awesome "Prothean" ship he just found? Then get them, too?

Then he could have waltzed onto the citadel with no resistance.

[open_sketchbook]

Spoiler

The process of indoctrination is subtle. It's described as requiring days or weeks to work. You can't expect the Council to hang around on the ship that long, unless you are a moron, which would explain why you'd make such a plan.

[DPDarkPrimus]

Minor plot/character question:

I never finished all the way through ME1, but Ashley seemed like the most hateful and xenophobic human in the Normandy crew. Why when I encounter her in ME2 is she shocked that I hooked up with Cerberus? Is this a misjudgment on my part, a retcon, or Ashley mellowing towards aliens over the last two years?

Also, I only met her once (on the colony attacked by collectors) is there a follow up encounter?

Ashely isn't xenophobic, she's just pro-human rights. She believes (for reasons not at all unfounded) that humanity is getting the short end of the stick as far as relations with the Council and Citadel politics goes. Terra Firma is outright xenophobic (which is against the principles of the founders of the party, she will point out to the rally-leader), and Cerberus isn't just humans-first but "advance humanity at any cost" which includes experimenting on humans and other races.

[adam_grif]

Spoiler

The process of indoctrination is subtle. It's described as requiring days or weeks to work. You can't expect the Council to hang around on the ship that long, unless you are a moron, which would explain why you'd make such a plan.

Spoiler

No, it can happen rapidly (hours), but then they suffer mental degradation within a few short weeks instead of the years if you do it over a long period of time. This was stated in ME2.

It doesn't have to turn them into blabbering slaves either, it just has to convince them to let it dock with the citadel. If they think it's a normal, operational council starship, then they should let it dock with the citadel anyway. It wouldn't be the first time they just blindly trust what they think is Prothean tech (keepers, mass relays and so on), and they have the indoctrination as an ace up their sleeve to help speed the process along.

It can't be a worse plan then "Slowly build up forces over a decade to directly assault the citadel while sneaking a commando team through the Ilos relay to disable defenses".

[open_sketchbook]

Spoiler

Sure, but it's hardly the sort of entrance the Reapers would want to make. They think of themselves as gods, believing themselves beyond the comprehension of mortals. With that kind of mindset, which do you think they'd do, sneak in like a pussy, or side with the most feared civilization in Council space and invade the fucking place? That it didn't work is pretty much entirely due to ill fortune and Shepard being a goddamn badass.

[adam_grif]

So we're back to "they're stupid"

[open_sketchbook]

Lack of hindsight is not stupidity.

[adam_grif]

Lack of hindsight is not stupidity.

No, but putting a decade spanning plan into effect when they could have done it much faster and with less chance of anybody standing in your way is, when the only reason you'd do it is for vanity (i.e. making a big entrance).

[Havok]

Keep in mind, the Reapers have done this COUNTLESS times. The Protheans are not the first "Collectors", they are just the first race that we know of that has been able to preserve knowledge of what has happened. The Reapers have been 100% successful doing it the way they have.

Even with the death of Nazal and the Reaper baby, there is no reason for a force that can wipe out galactic civilization, to be concerned. Especially since they aren't the first Reapers to be killed.

[open_sketchbook]

Spoiler

Oh great, the "blindly trust Prothean technology" bullshit again. We've been over this. It's hardly blind trust after 4,000 years of smooth operation. They had hundreds, thousands of years to be wary, but complacency ALWAYS sets in. It happens all the time in real life, why does it become unbelievable just because it's in SPACE?

Also, how much do you think that a ten year plan matters to the Reapers? They are tens or hundreds of millions of years old. Ten days or ten years are compatible timespans to them.

[open_sketchbook]

Ghetto Edit

Lack of hindsight is not stupidity.

No, but putting a decade spanning plan into effect when they could have done it much faster and with less chance of anybody standing in your way is, when the only reason you'd do it is for vanity (i.e. making a big entrance).

Spoiler

Ok, lets say they are stupid (which I'm not). So what? Hitler invaded the Soviet Union, my suspension of disbelief is broken! If you require 100% optimal actions from everyone all the time to not discard a work as badly written, then you better start ragging on history books as fucking hack jobs.