US-Taiwan Multi-Billion Dollar Arms Deal Creates Stir in Far

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US-Taiwan Multi-Billion Dollar Arms Deal Creates Stir in Far

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In a seemingly endless story of up’s and down’s, US-Chinese military and diplomatic relations are once more spiralling downwards. Multi-billion dollar arms deals announced by the US on Friday caused strong protests from China along with an announcement halting all military and diplomatic visits. The latter had seen happier days in late 2009 when both countries exchanged high-ranking delegations, including a visit by US President Barack Obama to Beijing in November. Protests had already been heard in December 2009 and early January, when the Pentagon approved the sale of Patriot PAC-3 missiles to Taiwan.


Now, the US and Taiwan are about to conclude a number of arms deals amounting to a total value of approximately $6.39 billion (€4.59 billion), as announced on 29 January by the US Defense Security Cooperation Agency (DSCA). The complex situation on both sides of the Taiwan Strait has repeatedly created political turmoil involving the United States, which maintains strong military and industrial ties with Taiwan, although it has declared on many occasions that it supports the one-China policy and peaceful development in the region.

According to the Defence Ministry's Foreign Affairs Office, the Chinese Defence Minister, Liang Guanglie, voiced strong protest on Saturday and the director of the office summoned the US defence attaché to lodge its protest. China openly dismisses any compromise in this matter and continues to consider Taiwan to be an internal affair. Hence, perceiving the US relations with Taiwan as an interference into its domestic matters, China has repeatedly stated it reserves the right to take further actions. However, no consequences in terms of direct military actions have ever come to pass and the international community considers these warnings to be an obligatory emphasis of China’s policy, rather than a true threat.

As recently as October 2009, Obama assured a visiting senior Chinese military officer that US-Chinese relations enjoy good overall momentum and that, as a crucial component of the overall relationship, bilateral military ties play an important role in enhancing strategic mutual trust and deepening their pragmatic cooperation. For the time being, this was the latest culmination of the two countries ongoing positive approach towards their relations. Now, relations depend on how the possible arms deal with Taiwan will further proceed.


The Multi-Billion Deal in Details

On Friday, the DSCA notified the US Congress of five possible arms deals with Taiwan, represented by the Taipei Economic and Cultural Representative Office in the United States. The following is a list of these possible foreign military sales (FMS) with a total value of $6.39 billion, as detailed by the DSCA.

• Taiwan requested the sale of 114 PATRIOT Advanced Capability (PAC-3) missiles, three AN/MPQ-65 radar sets and other related equipment and services worth an estimated $2.81 billion (€2.02 billion). The deal also includes an AN/MSQ-133 information and coordination center, a tactical command station, three communication relay groups, three AN/MSQ-132 engagement control stations, 26 M902 launching stations as well as five antenna mast groups. According to the DSCA, “The proposed sale will improve the recipient’s capability to meet current and future threats of enemy air strikes. The recipient will use the enhanced capability as a deterrent to regional threats and to strengthen its homeland defense.” The principal contractors for this deal will be Raytheon and Lockheed-Martin.

• The US is also considering selling 60 UH-60M Black Hawk helicopters worth an estimated $3.1 billion (€2.23 billion) to Taiwan. This would further comprise the delivery of 120 T-700-GE-701D engines, 18 spare T-700-GE-701D engines, 69 AN/APR-39A(V)2 radar warning receivers, 69 AN/ALQ-144A(V)1 infrared countermeasure sets, 69 AN/AAR-57 common missile warning systems, 69 AN/AVR-2B laser detecting sets, 120 GAU-19/A .50 cal machine gun systems, 310 AN/AVS-9 aviator night vision goggles, as well as associated ammunition, equipment and services. The helicopters, which will be manufactured by Sikorsky Aircraft (United Technologies) Corporation and General Electric Aircraft Company, will be used for self-defence, personnel movement, cargo lifting, and air MEDEVAC capabilities. According to the DSCA, Taiwan has requested offsets for this particular contract. However, at this time they are undetermined and will be defined in negotiations between the two countries.

• The DSCA further announced a possible contract for ten RTM-84L HARPOON Block II and two ATM-84L HARPOON Block II telemetry missiles, as well as other related equipment and services at an estimated cost of $37 million (€26.6 million). The DSCA explains that “the proposed sale will improve the recipient’s capability to meet current and future threats of hostile surface ship operations.” The prime contractor will be McDonnell Douglas, a wholly owned subsidiary of Boeing.

• The Taipei Economic and Cultural Representative Office is also interested in the procurement of 35 Multifunctional Information Distribution Systems Low Volume Terminals (MIDS/LVT-1) and 25 MIDS on-ship terminals. This contract will have an estimated value of $340 million (€244.39 million). The terminals are intended to improve and integrate the information flow as well as the display of tactical aircraft, surface ships, and ground stations. According to the DSCA statement,
Taiwan “will use the enhanced capability as a deterrent to regional threats and to strengthen its homeland defense.” The contract will be awarded through a competitive procurement conducted by the US government.

• Finally, the DSCA notified the US Congress of a possible sale of two Osprey-class mine hunting ships, including refurbishment, upgrade and other related support and services, to Taiwan. The contract, which has an estimated value of $105 million (€75.47 million), includes the overhaul of the AN/SQQ-32 sonar systems. Taiwan will, in particular, use the ships to enhance its capabilities to meet future threats of enemy mining operations. The prime contractor is to be chosen after a competitive source selection.
China accuses US of arrogance over Taiwan deal
China's state media has accused the United States of "arrogance" and "double standards" in pursuing arms sales to Taiwan.

The state-run China Daily and the Global Times also warned that China's threats of retaliation were real.

The Obama administration approved the $6.4bn arms sale to Taiwan last week.

China has warned of "serious harm" to relations between the two powers, the suspension of military contact and sanctions against the firms involved.

The US has said it will go ahead with the sale anyway.

'Cold war thinking'

China's state media said President Barack Obama must have been "insincere" when he promised not to "contain" China.The US move "exposes [its] usage of double standards and hypocrisy on major issues related to China's core interests," the China Daily said.

"Washington's arrogance also reflects the stark reality of how a nation's interests could be trampled upon by another," it added.

The Global Times, which is run by the People's Daily, the Communist Party's propaganda mouthpiece, said: "It's time the US was made to feel the heat for the continuing arms sales to Taiwan.

"It would be folly to underestimate Chinese unity over the Taiwan question. Punishing companies that sell weapons to Taiwan is a move that would be supported by most Chinese."

The People's Daily said in a commentary that the arms sales showed Washington's "rude and unreasonable Cold War thinking".

"When it comes down to it, the United States is still drawing lines based on ideology and coming up with a million ways to stymie China's development and progress," the paper's overseas edition said.

One China?

Taiwan has been ruled by a separate government from China since the end of the civil war in 1949, but China still considers the island to be part of its territory.Beijing has more than 1,000 missiles pointed at Taiwan and has threatened to use force to bring it under its control if the island moves towards formal independence.

Defence ties between Washington and Beijing have been on ice for several years because of differences over Taiwan, though the two countries' leaders pledged to improve them in 2009.

The United States switched diplomatic recognition from Taipei to Beijing in 1979, but it remains Taiwan's biggest ally and is obliged by the Taiwan Relations Act to help in the island's defence.

The US State Department said on Saturday that the weapons sale contributed to "security and stability" between Taiwan and China.

But China said the row would endanger co-operation with the US on "key international and regional issues."

Ties between the US and China are already strained by rows over trade and internet censorship.
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Re: US-Taiwan Multi-Billion Dollar Arms Deal Creates Stir in Far

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I hope Obama gets the message out of this Bush didn’t in the early 2000s, limiting arms sales to Taiwan is completely pointless. The Chinese will bitch just as much if we sell Taiwan a .50cal machine gun as an F-16, and meanwhile they continue to rapidly modernize themselves and array everything they have against the island.
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Re: US-Taiwan Multi-Billion Dollar Arms Deal Creates Stir in Far

Post by Blayne »

Has the deal been approved by the Taipei's Legislature? Traditionally the majority of arms deals are killed when the Pan Blue coalition votes it down.

An indepth analysis of US-Chinese relations and why selling weapons to Taiwan is a risky idea is shown in Susan L Shirk's "China Fragile Superpower" I believe she gave a rather indepth lecture about the book at "Authors@Google".
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Re: US-Taiwan Multi-Billion Dollar Arms Deal Creates Stir in Far

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Blayne wrote:Has the deal been approved by the Taipei's Legislature? Traditionally the majority of arms deals are killed when the Pan Blue coalition votes it down.

An indepth analysis of US-Chinese relations and why selling weapons to Taiwan is a risky idea is shown in Susan L Shirk's "China Fragile Superpower" I believe she gave a rather indepth lecture about the book at "Authors@Google".
Not when the pan-blue coalition is losing their grip on power. They lost a number of key states that used to support the pan-blue coalition to a large extend. It's more or less like how the democracts losing their seat in massachuset.

I don't think that the pan-blue coalition can afford to vote against such an act.
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Re: US-Taiwan Multi-Billion Dollar Arms Deal Creates Stir in Far

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The... pan-blue coalition? Could you explain that term for me?
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Re: US-Taiwan Multi-Billion Dollar Arms Deal Creates Stir in Far

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Simon_Jester wrote:The... pan-blue coalition? Could you explain that term for me?
The pan-green coalition is the party that seeks to achieve independence from Taiwan, while the pan-blue coalition led by the president Ma Yin-Jeou wants to seek better ties with China and maintain status quo.
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Re: US-Taiwan Multi-Billion Dollar Arms Deal Creates Stir in Far

Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

The US wouldn't make such an offer if the Taiwanese Government wouldn't accept it.

Likely the appropriation bill will pass, and China can bitch all they want about it.
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Re: US-Taiwan Multi-Billion Dollar Arms Deal Creates Stir in Far

Post by Sea Skimmer »

Keep in mind 6.4 billion dollars worth of weapons would have to be purchased over a number of years, I think eight years is the timeframe these packages look at. The whole Taiwanese defense budget is under 11 billion and only a small fraction of any military budget is spent on buying new hardware. So its entirely possible certain items wont be approved or funded this year or next year, but will still be bought in the end.
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Re: US-Taiwan Multi-Billion Dollar Arms Deal Creates Stir in Far

Post by Blayne »

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:The US wouldn't make such an offer if the Taiwanese Government wouldn't accept it.

Likely the appropriation bill will pass, and China can bitch all they want about it.
The US had many several offers in the past ultimately for it to be killed in their Parliament.
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Re: US-Taiwan Multi-Billion Dollar Arms Deal Creates Stir in Far

Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

Blayne wrote:
Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:The US wouldn't make such an offer if the Taiwanese Government wouldn't accept it.

Likely the appropriation bill will pass, and China can bitch all they want about it.
The US had many several offers in the past ultimately for it to be killed in their Parliament.
That was largely when Chen Shui Bian was in power.
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Post by K. A. Pital »

Routine bitching. Same as everyone does when his likely opponent gets supplied with weapons. See U.S. and Israel whine about Syria or Iran getting S-300s.
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Re: US-Taiwan Multi-Billion Dollar Arms Deal Creates Stir in Far

Post by Ypoknons »

China whines about everything. China can accuse the US of arrogance, but I haven't seen much compromising on their side (I suppose I should say "our" side) either - not on net censorship, currency valuation or the Dalai Lama. Diplomacy is a two way street, after all.
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Re: US-Taiwan Multi-Billion Dollar Arms Deal Creates Stir in Far

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Yeah, but currency valuation in the same list as "net censorship"?!! Why should China "compromise" with the First World on currency valuation - because the First World so desires? Why the fuck should they have anyone come and tell them how to manage their economy? That's not "diplomacy", that's fucking bend-over and we fuck you, and it worked so well last time (the Washington Consensus)!

Only a nation which is strong enough to be able to control it's own currency regardless of the wishes of the First World can be considered a significant world force.
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Re: US-Taiwan Multi-Billion Dollar Arms Deal Creates Stir in Far

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Ypoknons wrote:China whines about everything. China can accuse the US of arrogance, but I haven't seen much compromising on their side (I suppose I should say "our" side) either - not on net censorship, currency valuation or the Dalai Lama. Diplomacy is a two way street, after all.
Why should the Chinese government listen to what US has to say about the Dalai Lama? Seriously?
That was largely when Chen Shui Bian was in power.
Well, the legislative Yuan was controlled by the KMT even when Chen Shui Bian is in power.
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Re: US-Taiwan Multi-Billion Dollar Arms Deal Creates Stir in Far

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Why should the Chinese government listen to what US has to say about the Dalai Lama? Seriously?
He's likely referring to China bitching about Obama (or Sarkozy) even meeting with the Dalai Lama on US soil. And yes, China should STFU about that. :finger:
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Re: US-Taiwan Multi-Billion Dollar Arms Deal Creates Stir in Far

Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

China, like any Chinese government that went before it, strives on symbolism. Having the Dalai Lama alive itself irks Beijing, to be honest. They are all probably waiting for him to kick the bucket.
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Re: US-Taiwan Multi-Billion Dollar Arms Deal Creates Stir in Far

Post by Bluewolf »

Given the nature that China has with Taiwan, this is hardly unsurprising. It's more of a question of what damage this will do to US-China relations. Given that Obama's visit last year was not the most productive it does beg the question on how relations between the two countries will really improve. I cannot foresee the two countries being warm, not with their competiting interests and vastly differing views on certain things.
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Re: US-Taiwan Multi-Billion Dollar Arms Deal Creates Stir in Far

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Bellator wrote:
Why should the Chinese government listen to what US has to say about the Dalai Lama? Seriously?
He's likely referring to China bitching about Obama (or Sarkozy) even meeting with the Dalai Lama on US soil. And yes, China should STFU about that. :finger:
Yes, I know. However, when other nations is meeting with a person that wants a huge chunk of China to secede, I think it is fair for them to bitch about that.
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Re: US-Taiwan Multi-Billion Dollar Arms Deal Creates Stir in Far

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ray245 wrote:...when other nations is meeting with a person that wants a huge chunk of China to secede, I think it is fair for them to bitch about that.
Well that is only an issue if you consider Tibet to be a part of China. It is hardly as if the Lama is arguing for the secession of down town Beijing.
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Re: US-Taiwan Multi-Billion Dollar Arms Deal Creates Stir in Far

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CJvR wrote:
ray245 wrote:...when other nations is meeting with a person that wants a huge chunk of China to secede, I think it is fair for them to bitch about that.
Well that is only an issue if you consider Tibet to be a part of China. It is hardly as if the Lama is arguing for the secession of down town Beijing.
And why would you consider them to be apart from China? Even if they did gain independence, letting them be a theocratic state is hardly the wisest thing to do. Then consider the fact that the Dalai Lama wants "greater" Tibet to be independent...
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Re: US-Taiwan Multi-Billion Dollar Arms Deal Creates Stir in Far

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Sea Skimmer wrote:I hope Obama gets the message out of this Bush didn’t in the early 2000s, limiting arms sales to Taiwan is completely pointless. The Chinese will bitch just as much if we sell Taiwan a .50cal machine gun as an F-16, and meanwhile they continue to rapidly modernize themselves and array everything they have against the island.
I bet the reason why they're bitching is because of the 100+ Patriots. The rest is relatively beigin, transport/medevac choppers, 12 Harpoon missiles, information terminals and possibly two ex-US Navy coastal mine hunters.
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Post by Pelranius »

It's just routine noise. The Chinese might actually have taken some sort of action if we had sold the F-16s and submarines to Taiwan.
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Re: US-Taiwan Multi-Billion Dollar Arms Deal Creates Stir in Far

Post by Blayne »

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:
Blayne wrote:
Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:The US wouldn't make such an offer if the Taiwanese Government wouldn't accept it.

Likely the appropriation bill will pass, and China can bitch all they want about it.
The US had many several offers in the past ultimately for it to be killed in their Parliament.
That was largely when Chen Shui Bian was in power.

Who was pro-independence and pro buying more dakka.
China whines about everything. China can accuse the US of arrogance, but I haven't seen much compromising on their side (I suppose I should say "our" side) either - not on net censorship, currency valuation or the Dalai Lama. Diplomacy is a two way street, after all.
Currency reevaluation is the talking point of idiot Trade Protectionists who pin all the blame on China for the trade imbalance and not on say I dunno... building a car worth two shits that they can sell in Chinese markets? Heck Chinese emission standards on cars is higher then the US ones!

Also net censorship, meet Australia, whose internet laws are as tough or tougher then China's for where it matters (Video games).

I bet there are still schools in the US that ban 1984 from the libraries.
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Re: US-Taiwan Multi-Billion Dollar Arms Deal Creates Stir in Far

Post by Ma Deuce »

Currency reevaluation is the talking point of idiot Trade Protectionists who pin all the blame on China for the trade imbalance and not on say I dunno...
So trade protectionists are idiots now? I guess that makes the Chinese idiots.
building a car worth two shits that they can sell in Chinese markets? Heck Chinese emission standards on cars is higher then the US ones
You know, it's funny that you used cars as an example, because GM is actually the biggest automaker in the Chinese market (it may become their biggest market worldwide shortly). The difference of course is almost all Shanghai-GM cars are manufactured or assembled locally, due to the exchange rate, and Chinese protectionists tariffs on imported, complete automobiles, so it does not benefit US industry or tip the trade balance one bit.
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Re: US-Taiwan Multi-Billion Dollar Arms Deal Creates Stir in Far

Post by mr friendly guy »

[R_H] wrote:
Sea Skimmer wrote:I hope Obama gets the message out of this Bush didn’t in the early 2000s, limiting arms sales to Taiwan is completely pointless. The Chinese will bitch just as much if we sell Taiwan a .50cal machine gun as an F-16, and meanwhile they continue to rapidly modernize themselves and array everything they have against the island.
I bet the reason why they're bitching is because of the 100+ Patriots. The rest is relatively beigin, transport/medevac choppers, 12 Harpoon missiles, information terminals and possibly two ex-US Navy coastal mine hunters.
Hang on a minute, there is 100 or so patriots. Won't Taiwan just run of missiles in the very very unlikely event the Mainland simply fires missiles at them.
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