Pentagon finally realizes sex happens.

[SirNitram]

Link

WASHINGTON – The Pentagon for the first time will require military bases worldwide to offer emergency contraception or the so-called morning-after pill, a military spokeswoman said Thursday.

The decision follows a recommendation by an independent panel of doctors and pharmacists in November, said Defense Department spokeswoman Cynthia Smith. The panel determined that emergency contraception should be added to the military's list of medications that must be stocked at each military facility.

The decision represents a policy shift from the Bush administration when such a change was resisted, Nancy Keenan, president of the abortion rights group NARAL Pro-Choice America, said in a statement praising the decision.

Over much resistance from abortion opponents, the Food and Drug Administration approved the over-the-counter sale of the morning-after pill to adults in 2006.

The drug, which contains a high dose of birth control pills, can be used to prevent pregnancy after unprotected sex by blocking ovulation or fertilization. Critics of the contraceptive say it is the equivalent of an abortion pill because it can prevent a fertilized egg from attaching to the uterus.

Smith said she did not know when the policy would be implemented.

About time. Really all I have to say.

[The Yosemite Bear]

well with a third of the women stationed in Iraq or Afganistan getting raped, it's kinda sociopathic for them not to offer it...

oh wait were talking about them, the left-over Bush Brass are sociopaths...

[Alyrium Denryle]

Critics of the contraceptive say it is the equivalent of an abortion pill because it can prevent a fertilized egg from attaching to the uterus.

Oh please. So many fucking things can prevent that. Over 20% of known pregnancies (those that implant and become noticeable enough to prompt a doctor visit) end in a miscarriage. Otherwise known as a spontaneous abortion. An unknown (but probably high, given the numbers needed for implantation of in vitro fertilized eggs) percentage of zygotes never implant.

If these fuckers are right, (french accent) god is the greatest abortionist of them all.

[FSTargetDrone]

If these fuckers are right, (french accent) god is the greatest abortionist of them all.

And those same people will tell you that if God does it, it doesn't count.

[Lonestar]

well with a third of the women stationed in Iraq or Afganistan getting raped, it's kinda sociopathic for them not to offer it...

That seems high. And a (brief) google search turns up that 30% of women who deployed to Vietnam were suxual assaulted, but I can't find a similiar figure for the current overseas operations. Where did you get this figure? It isn't like a third of women deployed on USN ships get raped.

[The Yosemite Bear]

well that's the figure that keeps getting quoted most recently in The Senate Rape bill, (forgot the name of the Commedian turned senator who wrote it. (used to be on saturday night live, got sued by fox news).

[SirNitram]

Try here, which refers to GAO numbers.

[The Yosemite Bear]

Which is actually worse then the figure that I've been told is too high....

[CmdrWilkens]

Which is actually worse then the figure that I've been told is too high....

Actually, and only technically, the rape figure is only 29 percent so you were high...by 1 percent so yeah. I am in sad, sad, sad, ways not at all surprised. You have a shit load of men with amped up adrenaline who outnumber the women by at least 2-1 and sometimes more, potential for abuse from the power of rank differential, and the consistent infusion of illicit alcohol. CG order or not there is a ton of booze shipped around in Iraq and when you add that fuel to the fire of the above
the potential for abuses is certainly there in spades.

[Thanas]

The lower recruiting standards probably have a lot to do with it as well.

[Liberty]

Critics of the contraceptive say it is the equivalent of an abortion pill because it can prevent a fertilized egg from attaching to the uterus.

Oh please. So many fucking things can prevent that. Over 20% of known pregnancies (those that implant and become noticeable enough to prompt a doctor visit) end in a miscarriage. Otherwise known as a spontaneous abortion. An unknown (but probably high, given the numbers needed for implantation of in vitro fertilized eggs) percentage of zygotes never implant.

If these fuckers are right, (french accent) god is the greatest abortionist of them all.

This is something I've been wondering about: if a woman has sex after she ovulates, and after the egg has passed through the fallopian tubes and into the uterus, and even right down to the cervix, would she not then get pregnant but have the fertilized egg simply pass through her vagina and out of her body?

It seems like, therefore, fundies, etc, should advocate not having sex more than 12 hours after ovulation, or something like that. Usually when someone gets pregnant, it's from sperm that are already in the body when ovulation occurs (sperm can live 3-5 days). So maybe fundies should simply say that you shouldn't have sex after ovulation. I mean, having sex 12 or 18 hours after ovulation, or whatever it is, would then mean you are conceiving a child and automatically aborting it. I sense an Onion article...

[LadyTevar]

Just remember that many rapes, in military and out, NEVER GET REPORTED. Any figure you see for rapes in any community is only of reported rapes.

There are various reasons for a woman outside the military to not report a rape: Fear of the rapist, who may be someone she knows. Fear of not being believed, especially in date-rape cases. Fear of losing her job, if it was a superior.
Now think of the military mindset. If a normal civilian woman has these fears, what pressure is on a military woman to not report it?

[Aaron]

Thirty years ago, when woman were finally being brought into the CF in large numbers, virtually every single female posted to 4 Field Ambulance Squadron in Germany was raped. It didn't come out until around 07. Thats likely in the low hundreds of woman, and guess why it wasn't reported...the attitude of the senior NCOs, officers and Military Police. Lots of lost paperwork in there.

[Thanas]

^Jesus Christ, Kendall. That kinda makes me worried about Germany's forces as they start to integrate women more and more...Is there any more information out there on what went wrong? I would like to read up on that and compare that to the things the German military is doing atm to prevent rape etc.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Critics of the contraceptive say it is the equivalent of an abortion pill because it can prevent a fertilized egg from attaching to the uterus.

Oh please. So many fucking things can prevent that. Over 20% of known pregnancies (those that implant and become noticeable enough to prompt a doctor visit) end in a miscarriage. Otherwise known as a spontaneous abortion. An unknown (but probably high, given the numbers needed for implantation of in vitro fertilized eggs) percentage of zygotes never implant.

If these fuckers are right, (french accent) god is the greatest abortionist of them all.

I've heard figures as high as 33% of all pregnancies which implant end without the woman ever even knowing she was pregnant. If 20% of the ones where she does know end in miscarriage that's already around 47% of all pregnancies being spontaneously aborted before we even get to the zygotes which never implant.

[Aaron]

Information is pretty sketchy ATM. I only know of it because of folks who were there and "experienced" it. I'll hunt around and see if I can find anything official if you like.

[Thanas]

^That would be appreciated, thank you.

[CmdrWilkens]

Just remember that many rapes, in military and out, NEVER GET REPORTED. Any figure you see for rapes in any community is only of reported rapes.

There are various reasons for a woman outside the military to not report a rape: Fear of the rapist, who may be someone she knows. Fear of not being believed, especially in date-rape cases. Fear of losing her job, if it was a superior.
Now think of the military mindset. If a normal civilian woman has these fears, what pressure is on a military woman to not report it?

Huge pressure, which is why the number of instances of rape identification and prosecution are much rarer than the 29% figure which is instead the result of interviews with post-separation members in veteran's hospitals. While its a small sample size, particularly in relation to the number of women who have rotated through combat service in Iraq, it is probably a number much closer to actual occurrences since it is disclosed under confidentiality years afterwards.I actually think my unit was blessed with only having two or three real assholes who were out trying to scare up tail on deployment but working with many of the other units there 30% doesn't seem either too high nor too low.

[Simon_Jester]

WARNING: Amateur opinion follows:
As I see it, the problem is that we need to combine an old-fashioned attitude toward military discipline (break it and you can die for it, and probably deserve to) with a new-fashioned attitude toward sex and gender roles (to accept women in a combat zone and to treat this plague of rapes as a problem that demands an aggressive response).

I don't know how to get that combination working properly.

[Aaron]

WARNING: Amateur opinion follows:
As I see it, the problem is that we need to combine an old-fashioned attitude toward military discipline (break it and you can die for it, and probably deserve to) with a new-fashioned attitude toward sex and gender roles (to accept women in a combat zone and to treat this plague of rapes as a problem that demands an aggressive response).

I don't know how to get that combination working properly.

See we wave certain rights when we sign up but protection from shite like flogging and execution isn't one of them. What needs to happen is that the attitudes towards woman need to change from the top down. Nobody should be kidding themselves and think this happens in a vacumn, as long as folks from the senior officers on down to the middling level NCO's believe that woman are a liability, get preferential treatment and in general have no business in the military, it's going to continue.

The CF managed to get it to a managable level by shoving sensitivity and the fact that woman were never going to go away down the throats of the troops until it sunk in. The FRP in the early 90's helped as well by getting rid of a lot of old dead wood. Don't know how much of an option that is for the US though.

[mingo]

I saw on "my health" VA website that 30% in the military are sexually assaulted. I have no idea how that figure compares to the general civilian population, it seems high. I don't think that that many women that I knew in the Navy were raped, but it's not something I would necessarily know.

[Simon_Jester]

See we wave certain rights when we sign up but protection from shite like flogging and execution isn't one of them.

Yes. The only question is: what is the appropriate punishment for rape in the military? Harsh... but not death. I was horribly fuzzy-headed when I wrote that last post; if people hadn't already replied and if it were possible I'd be tempted to go back and stick in some qualifiers that I really needed.

What needs to happen is that the attitudes towards woman need to change from the top down.

That's what I meant about the "new attitudes" side of the equation. As you say it doesn't happen in a vacuum- it does no good for the politicians and the staff to declare heavy punishments for a crime that senior people don't take seriously.

The CF managed to get it to a managable level by shoving sensitivity and the fact that woman were never going to go away down the throats of the troops until it sunk in. The FRP in the early 90's helped as well by getting rid of a lot of old dead wood. Don't know how much of an option that is for the US though.

FRP... Force Reduction Something?

We can't get rid of dead wood that way at the moment; we need more of most things than we have, not less, except possibly in the Navy. Or we need to reduce our commitments, which takes time. I'd expect the dead wood to cycle out over time, but that isn't as reliable as actively booting the offenders out, because it gives them time to train a new generation to be as bad as they were.

[Aaron]

Yes. The only question is: what is the appropriate punishment for rape in the military? Harsh... but not death. I was horribly fuzzy-headed when I wrote that last post; if people hadn't already replied and if it were possible I'd be tempted to go back and stick in some qualifiers that I really needed.

Life in military prison? There not exactly a fun time.

FRP... Force Reduction Something?

We can't get rid of dead wood that way at the moment; we need more of most things than we have, not less, except possibly in the Navy. Or we need to reduce our commitments, which takes time. I'd expect the dead wood to cycle out over time, but that isn't as reliable as actively booting the offenders out, because it gives them time to train a new generation to be as bad as they were.

Oh sorry, FRP= Force Reduction Plan. After the Cold War ended we downsized drastically. FRP gave folks the option of leaving early with a bunch of cash.

[Molyneux]

If these fuckers are right, (french accent) god is the greatest abortionist of them all.

And those same people will tell you that if God does it, it doesn't count.

Of course. These are the same folks who honestly believe that if God murders a million people, it must by definition be good because God did it. I have known people who literally define good as "God's say-so".

[Liberty]

If these fuckers are right, (french accent) god is the greatest abortionist of them all.

And those same people will tell you that if God does it, it doesn't count.

Of course. These are the same folks who honestly believe that if God murders a million people, it must by definition be good because God did it. I have known people who literally define good as "God's say-so".

Or they could just blame it on the "fall." In other words, argue that there were no miscarriages before Adam sinned, so all of the babies who die via miscarriage are our fault for being sinful, not God's fault. I hate that argument, because it's hard to figure out how to fight it. I suppose the only way to fight it is to argue that there was no "fall" - after all, cancer has been found in dinosaur bones.