Studies Reveal Why Kids Get Bullied

[wolveraptor]

But hey, I'm the guy who humiliates neo-nazis with a gun to my head, so maybe I'm not normal.

High school was more of the same, until I finally snapped and started hospitalizing the assholes who bullied me.

You people have some stories I want to hear. Is that appropriate for this thread or does it need to be over PM or in Off Topic or something?

[Surlethe]

PM or Off Topic would be better, I think.

[Johonebesus]

I gotta admit I had and still have the same issues. It sometimes takes me about a minute or more to figure out what peoples body gestures mean. I've also been told my body reads a blank. I.E. I hardly ever show any body language, really unnerves some people.

Oddest even was a girl screaming at me to please blink once in awhile. It freaked her out that sometimes I go for hours not blinking.

I've wondered if there is too much interest in autism. There may be other conditions that result in pathologically stunted social skills that aren't directly related to classical autism. One doctor suggested that I might have Asperger's, yet I am nothing like Aperger's patients I have seen. I too have a very, very flat affect and don't do well with subtle social cues, and I accept that this is somehow not right, but I doubt I am actually autistic. I just don't seem to be as turned inward and disengaged as actual autistic people I have met.

From my experience in school, being too weird can actually help. I got a lot of verbal torment, but I was never actually beaten up. Part of it may have been that I didn't give the bullies much of a reaction, but twice I heard someone tell another, "don't mess with him too much, he's a freak, he might snap and kill you."

[Elaro]

Perhaps bullying is the evil cousin of "good-natured" ribbing/joking: someone makes a joke at another's expense; they don't take it; retaliate; and it escalates from there in an uneven fashion. The key difference between people who get bullied and people who don't is the ability to endure the insult, or can't escalate (because they don't have a social circle, because they're unwilling to fight back, etc.). I may speak from experience. I'm not sure, my memory of those events is very fuzzy.

Regarding the whole "blaming the victim... AGAIN!" post: well, it's more like telling people facing threats of flood to build levees. Yeah, bullying is a problem, but what can the bullied do to help solve it? They're not helpless. They should do whatever little they can do. Of course, the adults, too, should do what they can, but every little bit helps. Of course, because they might get desperate and do something regrettable, it's absolutely necessary to avoid giving the child the impression that it's been abandoned.

[KrauserKrauser]

I actually was the bully in elementary school so I guess I can give some insight on the mentality of the other side.

I've always been overweight and my home life had a tendency to be a bit explosive and while it does not justify my actions I could see the motivations behind my actions. I tended to pick on one specific person and good grief did I hound him mercilessly. I even had a minion that tagged around with me and we would harass him in the playground. I was a right shit.

Eventually I moved on from that around middle school and turned more towards humor and being the "gets along with everybody" guy to hide my flaws. I think the kid I tormented ended up going to a different middle/high school so I didn't see him until college and while I didn't talk to him about how I used to be so fucking mean to him and how shitty that still made me feel, I wanted to even though it wouldn't have really helped either of us at that point in our lives.

So that's my story of being a reformed bully.

[AMT]

Sorry for the delay in replying, but my social issues were caused from a mixture of neglect, moving around a lot and not putting down roots, and impaired vision hurting me with cues.

Like Broom, it's really hard for me to make eye contact with others, and im not good with my own facial expressions

[Rye]

My oldest memories of other kids involve violence and intimidation as soon as they could get away with it. While people with shit social skills will get picked on because they're easy, lonely targets, people with good social skills will get picked on as soon as they have something someone wants, even if all they want is pleasure from sadism. Kids are just sadistic, it's a thrill to short-cut the system through intimidation or violence, you feel elated when you trounce someone who can't fight back and impress your circle of friends in the process. It makes sense from an evolutionary perspective, just as babies of all species fighting does. It's preparation for similar situations later in life.

[adam_grif]

I used to get the shit bullied out of me. At some stage it stopped. I used to be pretty clueless, socially, and now I'm a veritable social chameleon. Some people actually get the impression that I'm normal. Those fools!

I'd say there's some truth to the article posted in the OP.

[Edi]

Patrick is precisely right in his analysis of things. Kids will always go after a perceived weakness. I was always perceived as the easy target because I wanted to be friends with everyone. I was too nice. Later the bullying led to me becoming pretty socially awkward for a long time.

It did wind down somewhat once people started getting bloody noses and black eyes and a lot of folks were very careful not to antagonize me unless they were in groups. Even quite a few of the physically bigger kids realized that if they provoked me enough, I wouldn't give a damn if I seriously hurt them in retaliation. Some didn't realize it, but most of the situations where that could have happened would have been in PE class and the PE teacher saw and understood. He was careful to stop things before they got to the point where I'd have beaten people bloody with a hockey stick or similar implement.

[Mayabird]

The fighting stuff works with guys just fine. I on the other hand am female AND was significantly smaller than everybody else my entire life. Girls do the violence too but they don't respond by respect or avoidance, but getting others in trouble for the same things they do, and it's not like I had the physical strength to pull off any spectacular attacks anyway. Though it probably does say something that the guys stopped being asses towards me by fifth grade but the girls were still bitches at me through high school, even when everyone was convinced I was one bad day away from a school shooting.

[Winston Blake]

The only reason anyone should be THAT lacking in social skills that you have to break it down to basic body language is if you are autistic. The rest of us picked most of that stuff up before our first birthday. The kind of skills you would WANT to teach are far more subtle, like "here is how you make friends and pick up chicks."

Umm... I'm not autistic, and I had this issue as a kid (still to a certain degree and trying to work on it). So... yeah, there may be other reasons.

Did you honestly not know a smile from a frown? Or did you simply not know how to respond to one? From what I know of child psychology, the only reason you should be that socially stunted is if you are either an undiagnosed autistic or SERIOUSLY socially isolated. Most kids simply do not need that basic of instruction. Even the mentally retarded, for as awkward as they are, know a smile from a frown. I've seen it in person, and yes, they do smile and do know when you are irritated with them. Considering that, I really can't help but call bullshit.

Do you really think things are that simple? Take an ordinary smile, and make it a little wider, and narrow the eyes a little, lower the eyebrows a little, and you have a mocking leer. The intention behind smiles varies a lot. They can mean sarcasm, condescension, schadenfreude, or 'near-laughter for any reason'. Sometimes I pick up hostility when people smile too widely, sometimes I think I've established rapport with someone and it turns out they were taking the piss out of me.

Well, yeah, likewise, I mean they should study better ways to learn social skills or better more analytical breakdowns of social skills and expected human behavior.
"Normal human mannerisms to show anger are:x,y,z, subtle signs are "pouting, silence, 30% angle posture of body away from person"" etc'.

If you're past the age of like 12 and you plan to improve your social skills is to "break down" the various behaviors involved you can look forward to a long and awkward life.

And? For those people who are looking forward to a long and awkward life? Fuck 'em?

When my friends told me that I always look like I'm thinking really hard and staring, I practiced friendly, laid-back facial expressions in the mirror. They still feel unnatural but I can do it when I need to. I continuously improve my social skills, however little, by applying analytical thinking... and I am better for it.

[Formless]

Do you really think things are that simple? Take an ordinary smile, and make it a little wider, and narrow the eyes a little, lower the eyebrows a little, and you have a mocking leer. The intention behind smiles varies a lot. They can mean sarcasm, condescension, schadenfreude, or 'near-laughter for any reason'. Sometimes I pick up hostility when people smile too widely, sometimes I think I've established rapport with someone and it turns out they were taking the piss out of me.

Treating everyone who has problems with social skills like they are autistic isn't going to help people identify intent. Now you are talking about something much more advanced than what DEATH, who started this tangent, was asking for.

[Simon_Jester]

I'm sorry, but this article is bullshit. It starts off by announcing that there are reasons why kids get bullied by their peers, then goes on about subjects which have absolutely nothing to do with why kids get bullied by their peers.

The reason why bullying occurs is because the strong kids see a victim in a weak kid. Bullies were never taught how to behave by their parents and/or were made to feel like shit by them, so they single out whoever makes an easy target and go to work on him so they can feel superior at least for a few hours in a day...

That's a factor, absolutely. On the other hand, it's not a guaranteed thing- not every scrawny kid gets his head stuck in the toilet.

Bullies pick easy targets. Some targets are easy because they're weak... some are easy because they have no friends. People who have no friends because of they're doing social interactions wrong are at a disadvantage- they're some of the softest targets of all unless they're a gorilla, physically speaking.

And in no reasonable sense does that mean it's their fault, or that they can make it all go away by doing something right socially. But it's foolhardy to ignore a way to make yourself less of a target because it's "not your fault" that you're being attacked in the first place.

[The Grim Squeaker]

Do you really think things are that simple? Take an ordinary smile, and make it a little wider, and narrow the eyes a little, lower the eyebrows a little, and you have a mocking leer. The intention behind smiles varies a lot. They can mean sarcasm, condescension, schadenfreude, or 'near-laughter for any reason'. Sometimes I pick up hostility when people smile too widely, sometimes I think I've established rapport with someone and it turns out they were taking the piss out of me.

Treating everyone who has problems with social skills like they are autistic isn't going to help people identify intent. Now you are talking about something much more advanced than what DEATH, who started this tangent, was asking for.

Actually, that is what I was asking for

[Patrick Degan]

Bullies pick easy targets. Some targets are easy because they're weak... some are easy because they have no friends. People who have no friends because of they're doing social interactions wrong are at a disadvantage- they're some of the softest targets of all unless they're a gorilla, physically speaking.

And in no reasonable sense does that mean it's their fault, or that they can make it all go away by doing something right socially. But it's foolhardy to ignore a way to make yourself less of a target because it's "not your fault" that you're being attacked in the first place.

In my experience, I found that the only way to stop being a target of a bully was to stomp on him —hard.

[Simon_Jester]

Fair enough. Problem is, what worked for you isn't necessarily the only way to deal with a given set of bullies; it could just have been the only way you could come up with and carry out at the time. And it might not be a good way to deal with a different set of bullies that someone else has to deal with. If you're trying to help your diminutive eleven year old daughter deal with the girls being mean to her, then "kick their ass" advice doesn't do much good because she can't.
__________

That aside, I think we've been overlooking something: knowing factors that make it more likely that a child will be bullied can be a good way for adults to identify kids who need someone watching over them and checking to make sure they aren't bullied. A lot of bullies are good at hiding what they do directly from adults. Being able to spot kids who are at risk and keep a protective eye on them would almost have to work better than just wandering around and hoping you stumble over someone stuffing them into a locker so that you'll have some evidence to crack down on the bullies over.

[Broomstick]

In my experience, I found that the only way to stop being a target of a bully was to stomp on him —hard.

Another problem of bullied kids these days is that defending themselves from physical abuse - I'm talking clear self-defense - will result in expulsion from zero-tolerance school districts and severely further fuck up their lives. In such places, not only are the children blamed for somehow "provoking" the abuse (and let's be frank - it is child abuse plain and simple) but they are punished if they do anything other than meekly submit, further teaching them to be victims.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

The fighting stuff works with guys just fine. I on the other hand am female AND was significantly smaller than everybody else my entire life. Girls do the violence too but they don't respond by respect or avoidance, but getting others in trouble for the same things they do, and it's not like I had the physical strength to pull off any spectacular attacks anyway. Though it probably does say something that the guys stopped being asses towards me by fifth grade but the girls were still bitches at me through high school, even when everyone was convinced I was one bad day away from a school shooting.

Welll..., you did clock that dumb cheap ho in band class that one day when she was going after Mr. B....

[Eleas]

The fighting stuff works with guys just fine.

I quite disagree. For one, it did not work with me, or anyone connected to that. I get the sense you're not claiming that guys can universally solve their problems through fighting, Mayabird, but at the same time, I'm catching some overtones in this thread that just don't sit well with me.

My own long-term attempt at summoning libertarian grit and "stomping" the other guys "hard" came to an end when I realized that gee, the onset of puberty would really have fucking helped me now. The other guys had speed, strength, friends, and overwhelming support on their side. So between the fact that even today I my muscles lock down whenever fighting starts, the memories of getting the shit beat out of me in front of a laughing crowd of people, and the therapy sessions dealing among other things with the fact that deep down I know I deserved that for "not bein' man enough"... I'd say the efficacy of this most manly of virtues may be overstated.

God damn. I really fucking despise this notion that had you only summoned up the mental fortitude to be betterstrongerfastermoreskilledatfighting than the five guys attacking you, you'd have been right as rain. What is that, if not victim-blaming?

I did learn a great deal from it, though. For one, I learned that teachers will take their cues from the kids. If you're weird in the eyes of the popular kids, teachers will not be sympathetic toward you, and they will ask you what you did to deserve it. Couple that with genuine social disorders (however mild they may be), and the teachers will be the first in line to ask for your expulsion or relocation to a school where you can go be weird in your own time.

[Simon_Jester]

God damn. I really fucking despise this notion that had you only summoned up the mental fortitude to be betterstrongerfastermoreskilledatfighting than the five guys attacking you, you'd have been right as rain. What is that, if not victim-blaming?

There's a catch, one that I think ought to be good for the conscience of people haunted by not having fought "hard enough."

Anyone who's made even a casual study of the art of war knows exactly what to do in a fight where you're outnumbered five to one: run away and hide. That is what people who are betterstrongerfastermoreskilledatfighting do; it's the amateurs who are dumb enough to think they're badass enough to win against those odds.

[Eleas]

There's a catch, one that I think ought to be good for the conscience of people haunted by not having fought "hard enough."

I'm not sure you understood what I was saying. This has no bearing on "conscience," nor does an attempt at judging the situation objectively change anything.

It has to do with being taught, as a kid (not, in other words, someone who could justly be called either Professional or Amateur), that other people have a right to treat you as garbage because that's what you are. It has to do with this becoming instinct, a little voice that tells you, whenever someone talks about how they just stood up for themselves and won money and fame and everything, "yes. Yes, why couldn't you even manage that? Just how fucking worthless are you?"

I would continue; I have written and rewritten this post, but I simply can't; there's just too much bile welling up in me at the moment. I get the sense that you were honestly trying to be helpful, and that impulse is appreciated. But this.

I'm sorry. I'm going to have to excuse myself from further discussion on the subject. Idiotic of me to enter it in the first place, I know, but there it is.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Of course that is what at a fundamental level happens during school shootings. There's nothing more ferocious than a cornered animal; if a kid is having to run for his life over and over again (whether or not he'd actually be killed by the bullies is largely immaterial), it'll eventually reach a point where all the built up bitterness, anger, and inadequacy will concentrate and should he ever feel pushed into a corner in which running away no longer seems like an option, he will turn and kill, and kil, and kill. A huntmaster knows that when the dogs have cornered their prey is by far the most dangerous time. And if the bullying culture in a school chases someone until they cannot run away anymore, psychologically speaking, they don't give them an out to keep avoiding (which is the normative response), then at that point they have no choice and strike back. And that is where we get school shootings from.

[Simon_Jester]

I would continue; I have written and rewritten this post, but I simply can't; there's just too much bile welling up in me at the moment. I get the sense that you were honestly trying to be helpful, and that impulse is appreciated. But this.

I'm sorry. I'm going to have to excuse myself from further discussion on the subject. Idiotic of me to enter it in the first place, I know, but there it is.

I apologize unconditionally. I think I understand how I screwed up, and I did screw up. I'm sorry for saying it, and doubly sorry for saying it so gracelessly.

[Eleas]

I apologize unconditionally. I think I understand how I screwed up, and I did screw up. I'm sorry for saying it, and doubly sorry for saying it so gracelessly.

No need to apologize. Like I say, I know it wasn't your meaning, and I do appreciate the thought.

[ArmorPierce]

I think working out hitting the gym and getting strong helps out. It will make you stronger than most people and you know that if you wanted to you can handle yourself in a fight. So if you tell someone to cut it off, you can back up your words. Once I started lifting weights most shit talking ended completely period. I was already stronger than most people to begin with but was really skinny due to my running.

I recall this video
http://www.nothingtoxic.com/media/11504 ... unned_Down

Guy was getting repeatedly bullied by neighbor. One day he was ready for him to come waiting. Sure enough bully showed up to be a dick. I don't recall exactly what happened but I believe he went to jail for murder for life and the bully dies. I really don't blame him for what he did though.