Avatar review thread

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Samuel
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Re: Avatar review thread

Post by Samuel »

That isn't my quote!
This Despite the fact that they had at least some sort of uneasy coexistence before the war seems to meant nothing once either got the chance to lord over the other.
"Uneasy conexistance?" From the regional database you have constant fighting between human loyalist and the Tau government. You have administrators asking for fire warriors to keep workers in line because they are slowly being poisoned by their job while at the same time settlers are complaining about the lack of protection which lets the Orks raid and butcher them with impunity. The only place on the planet where you have different species getting along is right next to the Orks where they are united by a common enemy.
the Imperium with their bomblast of killing all aliens.
Does it actually mention the Imperal Guard butchering all the Tau and Kroot inhabitants? All I remember is that they executed individuals who collaborated with the Tau government.
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Re: Avatar review thread

Post by starfury »

"Uneasy conexistance?" From the regional database you have constant fighting between human loyalist and the Tau government. You have administrators asking for fire warriors to keep workers in line because they are slowly being poisoned by their job while at the same time settlers are complaining about the lack of protection which lets the Orks raid and butcher them with impunity. The only place on the planet where you have different species getting along is right next to the Orks where they are united by a common enemy.
Well the Tau certainly Didn't finalize the Decision to Sterlize the Humans till they crushed all opposition, before it seems on and off, but after the Dark Crusade they seemed to say fuck it and just remove humans entirely from the equation, since they were put up with even this before instead going staright nercon or Chaos route of killing and Coverting everyone from the Get go.
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Re: Avatar review thread

Post by Samuel »

starfury wrote:Well the Tau certainly Didn't finalize the Decision to Sterlize the Humans till they crushed all opposition, before it seems on and off, but after the Dark Crusade they seemed to say fuck it and just remove humans entirely from the equation, since they were put up with even this before instead going staright nercon or Chaos route of killing and Coverting everyone from the Get go.
Or they needed the human population as a labor source and they were planning on dealing with them when they no longer needed them. Also how do we know they didn't start sterilizing people until after they crushed opposition?
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Re: Avatar review thread

Post by adam_grif »

Shroom Man 777 wrote: Yes, I agree with you that the RDA and the mercenaries probably didn't think that they needed more crap - they already had more than enough to defend themselves, and to lord over the planet with already way superior firepower.

I still think that it's not too far fetch, and that it's within the realm of possibility, that the RDA would've gotten unwarranted and unwanted attention if they started hauling more military hardware.

Not only would the government be scrutinizing their operations, but the RDA is also a corporation.

Like:

Sarevokeridge: Today, I propose that we allocate XYZ Space Dollars in budget to procure Su-24 Frogfaces and XB-70 Valkyrinikeheraculezeus weapons systems for our operations in Pandora!"

CEO Shroom Gates: Just why are we spending more shit on this crap? We are a mining corporation not a military. We have profit margins and it's already expensive as fuck to supply shit to Pandora! I'm a bigass penny-pinching executive! I want profit for minimal expenditure! Space EPA and Space California's already bitching to me about the Venture Star's antimatter carbon emissions! Fucking Space Denmark Kyoto Konference!"

Sarevokeridge: Uh... moving on... there's also the matter of the corporate pensions and employee benefits...

CEO Shroom Gates: Employee benefits? Pensions? This ain't no union shop! You'll get what I give and like it! If you don't like it, I'll just employ a bunch of illegal interdimensional immigrants from Space Mexico to do your job for you for less money!

Sarevokeridge: :(
The guns, gunships, ammunition and so on were all built on-location. The only thing they'd have to procure Earth-side is (maybe) licensing for it if it existed. The gunships they use were more than 90 years old and severely out-of-date, they only used them because high tech stuff reportedly wouldn't work on Pandora. I doubt they would have had to fork much out for the rights to use a gunship that nobody on Earth was using any-more, and a similarly "primitive" bomber would be unlikely to be that costly due to lack of demand.

But again, it's less "why didn't they use it?" and more "why would they think they would need to use it"?
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Re: Avatar review thread

Post by aieeegrunt »

There is absolutely no reason to think they would need more than what they already had, because it's not like anybody was expecting an entire planet's worth of megafauna to mass attack them coordinated by a neural network of fucking trees.

What they had was probably geared towards handling the natives, and you will note that they did that just fine; the Na'vi cavalry on the ground was wiped out after accomplishing pretty much nothing, and the Na'vi 'air force' was in the process of being wiped out as well. It was only a matter of time before they picked off enough flying Na'vi so that they could focuse on Shaaaake Schooooooly and blow him and his special ride out of the sky, which of course would result in a total collapse of Na'vi moral even before they blew up Soul Tree.

It was the deus ex machina of all those megacritters (they might as well have had some LOTR eagles flying around) that defeated the RDA.
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Re: Avatar review thread

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

adam_grif wrote:The guns, gunships, ammunition and so on were all built on-location. The only thing they'd have to procure Earth-side is (maybe) licensing for it if it existed. The gunships they use were more than 90 years old and severely out-of-date, they only used them because high tech stuff reportedly wouldn't work on Pandora. I doubt they would have had to fork much out for the rights to use a gunship that nobody on Earth was using any-more, and a similarly "primitive" bomber would be unlikely to be that costly due to lack of demand.
How do we know that ALL of the guns, gunships, ammunition and everything were built on-location? Do those in-situ factories build EVERYTHING, or do they have to import some of the more critical parts (computers, advanced radars whatever) from Earth? Do their in-situ factories have the capability to build fancy-shmancy radars and missile seekers and stuff? Well, we don't know. But I don't think their in-situ machines are Star Trek replicators, they probably have limits.

And just because their in-situ machines can build guns, gunships, ammunition, plus other facilities and those cars doesn't mean that their in-situ machines can build ANYTHING and EVERYTHING. Yes, their in-situ machines can build choppers - but these toolings might be different from what's needed to build, say, a fixed wing aircraft. I mean, I certainly doubt those in-situ factories have the necessary tooling to manufacture one of those Venture Star shuttles of theirs.

And, like you said, they might have not thought of buying or downloading or programming designs for other vehicles that they didn't need at the time. So if they tried to improvise, that might entail a whole lot of trial and testing and shit if they wanted to invent their own stuff.

Not only that, but if they built MORE kinds of vehicles on Pandora... then they're just wasting time constructing Frogfoots and Fishfaces or whatever. Not just time, but resources and energy too. If they build more military crap that they don't need, they'll take more time to build them, they'll have to mine more minerals and lumber for construction material, and those in-situ factories probably need power and shit. Do we even know what the RDA uses to provide energy for its facilities? They'll probably have to construct additional pylons or spawn more overloads or supply depots or something. :D

Those in-situ factories probably have more important things to construct, like bulldozers and backhoes and transport trucks and indoor lavatories, than stupid pieces of military shitware that the Quarritches are pouting about.
But again, it's less "why didn't they use it?" and more "why would they think they would need to use it"?
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Re: Avatar review thread

Post by PeZook »

It's been covered several times before why the RDA probably didn't think they'd ever need fixed-wing aircraft, and the basic arguments are as follows:

1) They'd only be useful in the even of a war with the natives, and in roles the helicopters can fill just as well.

2) They'd take fabricator time to make spares and a completely separate set of skills both for ground crews and the pilots (you have to ship pilots from Earth, and every fixed-wing pilot you move is one less scientist or technician or soldier)

3) They need a proper runway, not the stub they had at Hell's Gate. And building a runway means extending the perimeter, which means more logistical strain to protect said perimeter.

4) They'd use fuel and spares and simulator time even when doing nothing, because you need to maintain pilot skills if they're not to kill themselves
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Re: Avatar review thread

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

This is true! Helicopters are totally awesomer than fixed-wing aircraft for transporting people all over the place without the need for long-ass airstrips. I mean, geeze, are people bitching about the use of Hueys to ferry around troops in Vetnam? Was it sooo baaaad that they didn't use Su-24 Frogflops to land in the streets of Mogadishu to deploy badass Ranger HOOAHS and deadly Delta douchebag dudes? Helos can kill things from the sky, like a fixed-wing, and they can hover in place and land on tiny pads and deposit troops conveniently, UNLIKE a fixed wing. I mean, sure, the XB-70 Valkyrie can totally land on highways while Strategic Air Command can deploy thermonuclear SAC trucks to rearm and refuel them for their next strategic bombing run, and I can even give a graph from the 1960s, and if it weren't for goddamn Robert Space McNamara they'd be using those on the Na'vi too! :D
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Re: Avatar review thread

Post by Alyeska »

So I've had a chance to see Avatar in both 2d and 3d. And I have to say that 3d is a big waste of money. Sure it looks pretty, some times. I get tired of not being able to focus and see something other than the main action shot. I get tired of eye strain. And all things considered, it just doesn't look that much better in 3d. In 2d I can sit and look at the detail quite well. I can take in an entire scene. What I don't like about out of focus 3d is that my brain sees it and tries to focus it but I cannot. And it drives me crazy. My eyes then start to hurt from strain because they are constantly trying to focus something I cannot. But on 2d, my eyes don't try that and it feels extremely comfortable. Special effects were good, but nothing fundamental about them that look amazing on 3d. It looked just as good in 2d.
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Re: Avatar review thread

Post by mr friendly guy »

I must admit I saw it twice in 3D. I never experienced any eye strain or headaches, but from the thread it appears some people do. How common is this "side effect" anyway?
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Re: Avatar review thread

Post by adam_grif »

3D didn't cause any problems for my eyes, but I found it distracting, I'd constantly take my glasses off and on to see the difference and things like that. It's just the novelty of the thing of course. I still don't think it really adds all that much to the experience, I have no problem immersing myself in 2D films at all.
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Re: Avatar review thread

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Shroom Man 777 wrote:How do we know that ALL of the guns, gunships, ammunition and everything were built on-location? Do those in-situ factories build EVERYTHING, or do they have to import some of the more critical parts (computers, advanced radars whatever) from Earth? Do their in-situ factories have the capability to build fancy-shmancy radars and missile seekers and stuff? Well, we don't know. But I don't think their in-situ machines are Star Trek replicators, they probably have limits.
According to Pandorapedia:
Pandorapedia wrote:Like all aircraft operated by the RDA on Pandora, the Dragon required modification to fly in the local atmosphere. The turbines required a four degree repitch of the blade tips at the time of manufacture. The turbines are manufactured on Earth and installed in the airframe on Pandora. The airframe and rotor systems are manufactured at the in situ stereolithography plant at Hell’s Gate. Missile tracking and guidance electronics are imported from Earth, but missile airframes are manufactured in situ.

In situ manufacturing is necessary because of the extremely high cost of transporting mass from Earth to Pandora. Only exotic electronics and other specialty items are manifested as ‘upmass’ from Earth. The rest is made locally, including all ground vehicles, bulldozers, mine equipment, weapons, clothing, modular building elements, etc.
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Re: Avatar review thread

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

adam_grif wrote:3D didn't cause any problems for my eyes, but I found it distracting, I'd constantly take my glasses off and on to see the difference and things like that. It's just the novelty of the thing of course. I still don't think it really adds all that much to the experience, I have no problem immersing myself in 2D films at all.
Same here, mangoes. Some of the effects, like those particulates and dusts after the Home Tree got vaporized, and Jake Sully's tail, were nifty. But aside from that, there wasn't much difference. It WAS pretty nifty though, and I wish I saw the 3D first. But it wasn't a make or break thinggy. It was my first time watching a 3Ds!
phongn wrote:According to Pandorapedia:
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Re: Avatar review thread

Post by Anguirus »

I haven't seen it 2D, but saw it in 3D twice. I'm sure the movie's pretty enough in 2D, but its really historic accomplishment is non-gimmicky use of 3D to create a truly immersive experience. Unfortunately, some people don't respond well to 3D (just the quality of the glasses made a difference between my 1st and 2nd times, so that even though the 2nd time was IMAX the first time was a bit better), but my girlfriend was utterly blown away, this being her first 3D film as well.
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Re: Avatar review thread

Post by Zor »

I saw it four times, all of which in 3D, and it did not bother me at all.

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Re: Avatar review thread

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Re: Avatar review thread

Post by phongn »

So ... commentary? Criticism? A summary of the review? Why did you post a review nearly two months old now?
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Re: Avatar review thread

Post by Nyrath »

A couple of notes on the Avatar starship
http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3ap.html#avatar
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Re: Avatar review thread

Post by arjaycob »

I watched Avatar last night, in 3D, and I have to admit I was a little disappointed too. But I blame it on the script, 2-dimensional characters and the "preachy" feel. Technically, the movie was a 10/10. Because of the story etc I had to drop my score a bit but can't feel good about giving it anything less than an 8/10 simply because it is the most amazing LOOKING movie I have seen in years!



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Re: Avatar review thread

Post by Sarevok »

Nyrath wrote:A couple of notes on the Avatar starship
http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3ap.html#avatar
Cameron should have just stuck to a FTL drive. The Venture Stars ludicrous velocity already puts most scifi starships to shame. Now on top of that it can withstand a laser that probably puts out more energy that several thousand nuclear weapons every second. A FTL drive would a have served the story better by not introducing another gigantic plot hole. FTL would have let the characters travel to Alpha Centauri without such a high tech level that the movies entire premise is invalidated.
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Re: Avatar review thread

Post by Guardsman Bass »

Sarevok wrote:
Nyrath wrote:A couple of notes on the Avatar starship
http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3ap.html#avatar
Cameron should have just stuck to a FTL drive. The Venture Stars ludicrous velocity already puts most scifi starships to shame. Now on top of that it can withstand a laser that probably puts out more energy that several thousand nuclear weapons every second. A FTL drive would a have served the story better by not introducing another gigantic plot hole. FTL would have let the characters travel to Alpha Centauri without such a high tech level that the movies entire premise is invalidated.
No, it just would have taken a potentially plausible drive - laser-propelled starships actually are a serious proposal - and turned it into your typical sci-fi handwaving. Not to mention that the long transit time actually plays a plot-relevant purpose, by effectively isolating the unobtainium mining operation by years at a time.
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Re: Avatar review thread

Post by open_sketchbook »

So unnecessarily breaking the laws of physics in a manner every nerd gets a rage chubby about is preferable to having a bit too much power output? That he actually tried to play lip service to real world physics is a detriment?
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Re: Avatar review thread

Post by Sarevok »

Guardsman Bass wrote: No, it just would have taken a potentially plausible drive - laser-propelled starships actually are a serious proposal - and turned it into your typical sci-fi handwaving. Not to mention that the long transit time actually plays a plot-relevant purpose, by effectively isolating the unobtainium mining operation by years at a time.
0.7 C laser light drives are plausible ?

Plausible for anything but K-II level civilization ?
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Re: Avatar review thread

Post by AniThyng »

Sarevok wrote:
Nyrath wrote:A couple of notes on the Avatar starship
http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3ap.html#avatar
Cameron should have just stuck to a FTL drive. The Venture Stars ludicrous velocity already puts most scifi starships to shame. Now on top of that it can withstand a laser that probably puts out more energy that several thousand nuclear weapons every second. A FTL drive would a have served the story better by not introducing another gigantic plot hole. FTL would have let the characters travel to Alpha Centauri without such a high tech level that the movies entire premise is invalidated.
Why do you think it is a "gigantic plot hole" when the ship is by the given link above, the most plausible sci-fi ship in ages?
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Re: Avatar review thread

Post by open_sketchbook »

Because he has taken it on himself to bitch about everything and anything he can regarding the movie because he didn't get to see the blue people bombed from space.
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