When does Andromeda get shit ?

[Sarevok]

I finished season one. It was good beyond all expectations. Now I am faced with the dreaded question.

Andromeda supposedly started to get shit after it's first season and eventually became unwatchable turd towards the end like Battlestar Galactica did. I watched parts of season 3 way back several years ago when Andromeda was still on TV and it was dreadful. I am very thankfully to myself I tracked down season one which is a totally different show. So the question remains. When to quit ? As of now I am in the season one final episode which is one of the best cliffhangers I have seen. The last scene of Captain Hunt bleeding to death on the bridge as the heavily damaged Andromeda is plunging into a blackhole makes one want to find out more.

How does season two hold up in comparison to season one ? Without spoiling me how far through season two do they maintaini the same storytelling quality before beginning the inevitable nosedive into mediocrity ?

[Boeing 757]

I finished season one. It was good beyond all expectations. Now I am faced with the dreaded question.

Andromeda supposedly started to get shit after it's first season and eventually became unwatchable turd towards the end like Battlestar Galactica did. I watched parts of season 3 way back several years ago when Andromeda was still on TV and it was dreadful. I am very thankfully to myself I tracked down season one which is a totally different show. So the question remains. When to quit ? As of now I am in the season one final episode which is one of the best cliffhangers I have seen. The last scene of Captain Hunt bleeding to death on the bridge as the heavily damaged Andromeda is plunging into a blackhole makes one want to find out more.

How does season two hold up in comparison to season one ? Without spoiling me how far through season two do they maintaini the same storytelling quality before beginning the inevitable nosedive into mediocrity ?

I'm almost through watching season 1 as well, and I actually find it to be quite an enjoyable show. Unfortunately, I've been told that the quality of Andromeda begins to drop off somewhere roughly halfway through season 2 right after the point where they fired Robert H. Wolfe. Quite a shame really, it had so much potential but Kevin Sorbo had different ideas....

[NecronLord]

It's definitely crap by the bits of Season 3 I've seen.

[Thanas]

One can ignore everything past episode 11 of the second series. Episode 11 (especially when taken together with episode 8 and 6) all show the enormous potential. Episode 6 being my favorite andromeda episodes of all time, probably.

After episode 11, one need not bother except for a very few episodes (two in season 3 are great). I can go into great detail what RHW wanted to do on the show and how the storylines would have played out, but that would be spoilerific.

My suggestion: Watch until and including episode 11, then stop and come back here for suggestions for the next episodes.

[Gramzamber]

As pants on head retarded as the finale of nBSG was, it's final season didn't reach near the levels of sheer unwatchable intelligence insulting dreck that was Andromeda season 5.
They could've literally just put Kevin Sorbo sitting on a chair saying "fuck you" to the audience over and over for a whole season and it would've been better than what we got.

Anyway, season 2 is where you can start to see the rot, and Sorbo transitioning the whole thing into Hercules in Space. Seasons 3 and 4 are where it's lost forever with the occassional good episode.

[mr friendly guy]

It started losing steam around season 3. There were still a few good episodes, but when stuff like this happens you know Sorbocles had fucked up the series.



Those Andromeda has become "Hercules in space" jokes actually came true beyond our wildest mockery.

[Thanas]

^That specific criticism is unfair, because the Paradine story was not Sorbos idea.

However, he definitely is to blame for the "scrub our well-planned five year arc, let's go have adventures" as he was one of the five producers making that decision.

[mr friendly guy]

Ok, I will concede the part about Sorbo, although IIRC Sorbo's influence did lead to RHW being fired, which I think was the catalyst that led to the show changing from well thought out scripts, to the Hercules in space crap route the show would later take. The people in charge of the series clearly loved this new direction so much that they made Dylan an actual god.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Ok, I will concede the part about Sorbo, although IIRC Sorbo's influence did lead to RHW being fired, which I think was the catalyst that led to the show changing from well thought out scripts, to the Hercules in space crap route the show would later take. The people in charge of the series clearly loved this new direction so much that they made Dylan an actual god.

The deep irony is that Andromeda was probably Sorbo's best chance to ever be a part of something that would be remembered by someone at least 20 years from now. Hercules does not cut it, unless you like to be remembered from camp value. He's over 50 now and a career takeoff in his fifties is not very likely even if he actually could act worth a damn...

[Thanas]

Ok, I will concede the part about Sorbo, although IIRC Sorbo's influence did lead to RHW being fired, which I think was the catalyst that led to the show changing from well thought out scripts, to the Hercules in space crap route the show would later take.

Well, it is more like TPTB wanted more stand-alone episodes. Sorbo was very enthusiastic about that and did nothing to change it and voted for RHW removal. If he had not done so, this would not have happened.

Was he the one who instigated it? Nobody can say. Did he like this new direction? Oh yes. DId he vote for RHW being fired? Yes, he was one of the five who voted for it.

It bears noting that Sorbo later changed his mind, but by then it was too late and the damage is done. Meanwhile, however, he is of the opinion that S1 and S2 is his favorite part of Andromeda. Too bad he did not have that opinion back when it might actually have done anything.

The people in charge of the series clearly loved this new direction so much that they made Dylan an actual god.

Bob Engels is to blame. He came in and tried to revamp the entire series. Which is not a bright idea when you have well-established characters and a well-established style. This is also the reason for why you get the occasional flash of greatness in S3 and S4 - because some of the old-style writers were still sticking around.

Ok, I will concede the part about Sorbo, although IIRC Sorbo's influence did lead to RHW being fired, which I think was the catalyst that led to the show changing from well thought out scripts, to the Hercules in space crap route the show would later take. The people in charge of the series clearly loved this new direction so much that they made Dylan an actual god.

The deep irony is that Andromeda was probably Sorbo's best chance to ever be a part of something that would be remembered by someone at least 20 years from now. Hercules does not cut it, unless you like to be remembered from camp value. He's over 50 now and a career takeoff in his fifties is not very likely even if he actually could act worth a damn...

Indeed. The only one who had any kind of career after Andromeda and is still flourishing is Lexa Doig, though Andromeda is not to be congratulated for that because she probably rose through her own talent. She is set to join the new V, btw.

[Gramzamber]

Well come on now, Sorbo went on to do many fine cinematic masterpieces like... Meet the Spartans!

*cough*

Yeah.

[takemeout_totheblack]

The common opinion is that Andromeda has about 2 seasons worth of watchable to good episodes; the first season and the first half of the second, and then a few sprinkled here and there in the brain sodomizing 2.5, 3rd, 4th and 5th seasons.
A shame too, I found the use of relativistic weaponry to be interesting, those don't appear too often in mainstream scifi.

[Boeing 757]

The real question now is whether or not this series will one day be rebooted. It did have a lot of potential while RHW was in charge of writing that I would just hate to see to go abandoned. I wouldn't mind giving it an other chance, so long as some one with talent could come up with fresh but dynamic characters and interesting plots once again.

[Thanas]

Honestly? I'd rather not. RHW revealed his conclusion and told us what would happen to the characters anyway (Pm me if you want to be spoiled, I don't want to ruin it for Sarevok), so I'd rather remember S1 and the start of S2 fondly and leave people to recreate something else.

[Marcus Aurelius]

The real question now is whether or not this series will one day be rebooted. It did have a lot of potential while RHW was in charge of writing that I would just hate to see to go abandoned. I wouldn't mind giving it an other chance, so long as some one with talent could come up with fresh but dynamic characters and interesting plots once again.

It rarely makes sense to reboot a series that was not very successful to begin with. Rebooting a franchise is mostly a commercial undertaking and it's done to get more value out of a well-established names while leaving the baggage behind. Batman and Star Trek are very good examples of that.

The question is why would anyone agree to finance and produce a reboot of a semi-failed series like Andromeda? Would it made sense even artistically? Unless RHW could come up with a totally different ending to the story arc and characters than he already publicly revealed, it would not make much sense artistically either, like Thanas already wrote.

[Sarevok]

Maybe Andromeda could be like old battlestar galactica. While that series had similar potential it too ultimately floundered.. Despite it's later failings nBSG resurrected and established the Galactica sage as one of the titans of televised alongside greats like Star Trek and Babylon 5. Perhaps one day Andromeda shall get similar treatment. If there is a TV series asking for grand visuals and epic scenery Andromeda is it. Throughout season one I could feel the awe of many things characters talked about but could not filmed. I would love to see the waterworld they visited from the underwater cities not just shots from space that only teased one to land and see the wonders there.. A orbital ring would be even more magnificent. So would be the vast power and might of the Commonwealth military machine seen using todays special effects. A lot of hardware like the battledroids seen in the pilot were not used because it was not possible.

[Thanas]

^They are used in Season 2, extensively and in one of the best sequences of the show.

[starfury]

Andromeda was the not only show to suffer this fate, a similar themed show called Earth Final Conflict came out as well and lasted only one solid first season before they completely revamped the entire premise of the show and completely jettioonsed whatever long story arc that they had origininally started.

[Big Orange]

Two online reviewers from way back when the show first aired reviewed Andromeda in its first two more watchable seasons when its still had fairly good ideas and potential, but by end of S2 they seemed to be at their wits' end and abstained from reviewing the later seasons of Andromeda:

Last season my biggest complaint was with execution. The show had a good underlying philosophy, which was one based on continuity, a goal-oriented premise, and the building of characters and societal relationships. It wasn't successful, but the problems were more with acting, production, and story flow. This season, by contrast, has done more to destroy what the show once stood for in favor of a general dumbing-down of the series. While the use of episode-to-episode continuity hasn't been abandoned, little of it makes sense under scrutiny or has any persuasive direction. Meanwhile, the overall storytelling technique makes Voyager look subtle and sophisticated. While I'm mildly curious to know what new head writer Robert Engels can bring to the table, I can't honestly say that I care to watch the show to find out.

So it's at this juncture where I say that I'm finished reviewing Andromeda. There's simply no reason for me to continue, because I don't enjoy it anymore and I feel like I'm just bitching in a vacuum. Besides, the amount of e-mail I receive in regard to my Andromeda reviews has significantly dropped off this season. Every once in a while I'll get a stray e-mail, but it's rarely to debate the shows any further but instead to tell me how the viewer had given up watching the show months ago. The message this sends me is that (A) interest in my reviews has diminished, (B) interest in the show has diminished among my readers, (C) both, or (D) the people who still like the show don't want to read unrelenting negative reviews about it, for which I can hardly blame them. So it serves no one any purpose for me to continue -- particularly myself, since it's an ongoing and increasingly unrewarding drain on my time, which would be better spent on other ventures. (I'm looking forward to reviewing just Enterprise next fall, and not being behind on reviews all the time. If you're wondering if I'll be reviewing Farscape or Stargate SG1 or another show in Andromeda's stead, the answer is no.)

Back when Andromeda first started, Ashley Miller told me the writers actually read my reviews and considered what I had to say. That was nice to know. I have no idea if that's still the case, but it really doesn't matter, because TV writers are not able to make changes to a show based on a few vocal critical opinions; it's just not practical. And it's become increasingly clear to me that what I'd like to see in Andromeda is a very different thing than what Tribune wants to produce. Such is life. I think it's admirable that the writing staff still listens to its online fans; I just don't believe that it actually matters in a real-world entertainment-industry environment that believes the lowest common denominator is the target audience.

Best of luck to Ash & Zack (hopefully you know I'm still rooting for you guys) and the rest of the Andromeda staff in improving the show into something more frequently watchable, even to those of us who aren't interested merely in seeing an action hour where the good guys win.

Jammer

THE BOTTOM LINE: I don't enjoying watching or reviewing Gene Roddenberry's Andromeda; ergo, I'm no longer going to watch or review it. Pretty simple, really.

Even before Robert Wolfe's departure/firing/whatever last fall, the series rarely provided a compelling reason to watch. With a few exceptions, such as "Double Helix," "Angel Dark, Demon Bright," and "The Honey Offering," Andromeda's first season was squarely in the mediocre-to-bad range. And this season, just when it started to seem like there really was a coherent master plan to the series, when flawed but meaty episodes such as "Una Salus Victus," "Home Fires," and "Into the Labyrinth" used the strengths of this series' universe to good advantage, the rug was pulled out from under. There's no sense at this point in rehashing the issues surrounding Wolfe's departure; I've made my feelings known in the "Changing Rolls" parable, as well as its sequel, the review of "Ouroboros." In the end, we may never be sure what really happened behind the scenes, or know how pervasive the interference of the "Powers That Be" was even before Wolfe's departure.

But a show that before was watchable up to a point is now unwatchable. While there used to be a story behind the series, the show now seems to be about little more than gunfire, wire-fu, Dylan Hunt getting laid, nonverbal cannon fodder alien species, and breasts jiggling delightfully and spilling out of Trance Warrior Princess' Wonder Bra. The series' main premise, restoring the Commonwealth, has apparently been rushed to completion, with something like forty-five new signatories magically appearing in the second season finale. Reportedly, this has been done so that Hunt can claim victory and start running around from planet to planet helping people heroically (and presumably bedding their women). (If you read the linked article, this brand of heroism seems to boil down to: It's too hard to create and maintain the Commonwealth, so let's find easier and more fun ways to help. Some hero.) It also sounds as if Beka and Tyr will return from their near-death experience as born-again Kool-Aid drinkers in the Cult of Dylan. In pretty much every way that matters, this is not the show I signed up for.

Why not give Robert Engels and the new staff a chance? I thought about it, especially since I've enjoyed Engels' work in the past, but in the end decided there was no point. It seems pretty clear that regardless of who is named as the "show runner," other people with other agendas are the ones actually running this show. Their goal seems to be to retarget the series to a different demographic, one in which I don't seem to reside. And more to the point, I don't want to reside there. In addition, I've had difficulty getting reviews written and posted in anything resembling a timely manner. Reducing my "workload" down to one series (plus special projects when possible) will help tremendously.

In short, this article represents the end of Andromeda coverage at The Cynics Corner. And yes, this means I'm not going to bother with reviews of the last four episodes of Andromeda's second season or of that season as a whole. Those reviews are all in various stages of completion, but I see little point in expending any time completing them under the circumstances. Don't worry, you aren't missing much: Mocking "Belly of the Beast" as a poor man's Waiting for Godot; questioning Hunt's wisdom in making an AI a ship's captain, given the high incidence of mental instability in AIs; speculating that the Genites are in fact the logical successors of the High Guard, considering the corruption, sloth, and incompetence we've seen in the old Commonwealth; griping about the off-screen rush to get fifty member worlds in the New Commonwealth and the unnecessary escalation of villainy in "The Tunnel at the End of the Light." Oh, yeah, and a Cy Awards musical number, sung to the tune of "Five O'Clock World." Oh, well.

To those who feel that I'm somehow obligated to continue the fight: Sorry, I'm not, and I won't. To those of you from the "If you don't like it, don't watch it" school of commentary: Enjoy the show.

Cynics Corner

[Thanas]

Two online reviewers from way back when the show first aired reviewed Andromeda in its first two more watchable seasons when its still had fairly good ideas and potential, but by end of S2 they seemed to be at their wits' end and abstained from reviewing the later seasons of Andromeda:

What were you hoping to accomplish by quoting the walls of text?

[Big Orange]

I'm merely showing two old diatribes from two different online critics who bailed out on the show when they felt it was going downhill, but here's a link to reviews from another online critic who stuck with the show till the end.

Another factor in Andromeda's creative decline seemed to be the decreased screentime for supporting characters such as Rev Bern, played by Brent Stait, an actor who could perform well through a monster suit. When I read about Andromeda, it has some similarities to the Culture series, which also features advanced ships that captain themselves better than the organic crew onboard and are equipped with potent weapons that can engage targets lightyears away.

I cannot remember Andromeda that clearly and was only a casual viewer, with shows like Stargate SG-1 and Farscape getting my attention instead, but I can vaguely remember liking an episode where the main cast are trapped in some kind of homestead or bar that was under a long siege from alien meatheads. Another show that I liked in its first season but also turned to crap by its third season that's fresher in my mind is of course Heroes (which also had another ST veteran as a writer, Bryan Fuller).

[Thanas]

Another factor in Andromeda's creative decline seemed to be the decreased screentime for supporting characters such as Rev Bern, played by Brent Stait, an actor who could perform well through a monster suit.

No. Mr. Stait developed an allergy against the suit in Season 1, which is why he got less screentime in Season 2. That was not due to any storyline, and in fact he was intended to feature quite heavily up until the end, but health reasons forced him to drop out.

I can vaguely remember liking an episode where the main cast are trapped in some kind of homestead or bar that was under a long siege from alien meatheads.

....only you could like the only episode from RHW's turn that can be described as a giant turd.

[PkbonupePeter_Kcos8]

It became shit for me after they escaped from the Mygog worldship at the end of season 2 (or at least I think it was season 2). The show just seemed to lose all direction and momentum after that.

[Thanas]

It became shit for me after they escaped from the Mygog worldship at the end of season 2 (or at least I think it was season 2). The show just seemed to lose all direction and momentum after that.

Season 1 and clearly you did not understand the first half of Season 2 then.

[PkbonupePeter_Kcos8]

Season 1 and clearly you did not understand the first half of Season 2 then.

It stayed good for maybe a few episodes after that. I remember the quest to remove the Mygog larve was fairly enjoyable. It was after this conflict was resolved that things started getting a bit more iffy, with the writers just introducing one lame "monster of the week" after another without any real direction.

However, this was a few years ago, and I was never really more than a casual viewer anyway, so feel free to disregard my input. lol