What SW infantry weapons could bring down a Space Marine?

[takemeout_totheblack]

On top of that, momentum can still be nasty even if you *don't* penetrate anyways. I wouldn't want to take a headshot from a .50 BMG round even if I wa swearing a helmet that guranteed no penetration, after all.

Yeah, in fact if you look to real life history, a lot of 14th-15th century weapons designed to defeat armor were in fact hammers, maces, and other bludgeoning weapons. The idea being that penetration was not guaranteed but you could still either KO or pulverize the person underneath. Could those huge-bore Ork shootas be more of a pulverizing than penetrating weapon? Because a lot of them look like their bullets are the size of tennis balls! Ceramite and bone-shield or not, that'll probably knock a SM on his ass for a second!

[Eviscerator]

Book strengths and actual strenghts of Chapters vary widely, from near-fully staffed Chapters to Chapters that could be gone tommorow.

That listing should be taken as an summary of a Chapter at ideal strengths in accordance with the Codex Astartes and actual force deployments vary accordingly.

To example: (taken from Imperial Armour 2):
Blood Angels Chapter, 3rd Comp TF, 3rd Armageddon War (a planetery warzone)
HQ - Captain Tycho, command rhino
Fleet - Strike cruiser, 2 escorts, 4 Thunderhawk gunships, 2 TH transports
Librarius - Epistolary and Codicier
Sanguinary High Priests - 2 priests , one rhino
3rd Company detachment - Chaplain, 60 tactical marines, 20 each devastator and assault, 8 Rhinos, 3 Dreadnoughts, 10 total land speeder
10th Company detachement - 10 Scouts
Armor assets - 6 total Predator tank, 4 total Razorback
For a strength of 106 SMs, 20 total AFV, 10 light speeders, 3 warships, 3 Dreadnoughts. and 10 Scouts

And for the Big Cheese :
Doom Eagles Chapter, 13th Black Crusade (Major Chaos attack)
HQ - Chapter Master, 2 Damocles Rhino, one Land raider
Fleet - Battle barge, 3 Strike Cruiser, 8 total escorts, 31 total Thunderhawks
Libarius - 12 total Librarians
Apothecarion - 5 Apothecary, 3 Rhinos
Armor - 7 total Land Raider, 13 total Predator, 3 Vindicators , 4 Razorbacks, 13 total Artillery AFV (Whirlwind and Hyperios)
1st Company - 50 Terminators, 5 Land Raiders, 3 Rhinos, 3 Dreadnoughts
2nd Company - 101 total SMs, 10 Rhinos, 2 Dreadnoughts, 9 Land Speeder
4th Company - 101 SMs, 9 Rhinos, 3 dreadnoughts, 10 Land speeder
6th Company - 11 SMs, 10 Rhinos, 4 Dreadnoughts, 6 Land speeder
9th Company - 50 SMs, 5 Rhinos
For a total deployed force of - 331 SMs, 12 Warships, 79 AFVs, 25 land speeders, 12 Dreadnoughts.

[hunter5]

What about disruptor pistols? http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Model_MS ... tor_pistol

[Imperial Overlord]

Disruptors have worse range than melta weapons along with slow fire rates and low ammunition capacity. They'd do a hell of a lot of damage to a Space Marine (a dude overloaded a disruptor pistol and took down an Espo security van in one shot in Han Solo at Stars End), I would prefer to go with a weapon that's at least somewhat effective at bolter range.

[takemeout_totheblack]

Distruptor range is a serious issue, but I think the line of thought here is 'Space Marine breaches prefab base wall and now stopping power is needed' i.e. distuptor side-arm.
It would make a devastating close quarters weapon for the Stormies, seeing as how Space Marine durability and armor makes standard blaster rifles ineffective in the 'kill enemy before he tears me in half' department. True, lucky shots are well within possibility, but why rely on luck?

[Sarevok]

Why bother with disruptors ? The PLX-2m from jedi outcast offers range, accuracy and firepower that is unbeatable. They are rapid fire hand held missile launchers. They shoot fire and forget guided missiles at about 2 missiles a second, A rocket trooper can carry dozens of reloads and the missiles are powerful enough to destroy AT-STs.

[Lord Relvenous]

@Conner:
I have no disagreement with anything you've posted.

@Sarevok: How rare are they? With those types of capabilities, you'd think you'd see them as the basic weaponry of SW forces.

[Adam Reynolds]

@Sarevok: How rare are they? With those types of capabilities, you'd think you'd see them as the basic weaponry of SW forces.

The way he describes that weapon is almost certainly game mechanics.

According to the SWEGWT, the PLX-2M system is over 50kg in mass, but an integral repulsorlift system allows even a diminutive operator to easily carry the weapon. The guided missiles carry miniature proton warheads, and the weapon is equipped with a sophisticated targeting system which uses holograms to display range, speed, and other information. The operator can easily track targets through rain, darkness, and fog, and the missiles can be set to home on infrared emissions much like 20th century heat-seeking missiles do, or to home in on the gravity-wave anomalies caused by repulsorlift drives. Gravity wave-locks are almost impossible to break, even for skilled pilots, and the missile has a range of fifty kilometres, so it can only be outrun if the vehicle is unusually fast. Standard loadout is six missiles.

This suggests a much heavier weapon that what is described by Sarvok. Also his claims about dozens of reloads and a high rate of fire are presumably game mechanics. Also they are far too destructive to be used effectively in many situations. It would be the equivalent of using a grenade launcher as the primary weapon of a military.

[Norade]

According to the SWEGWT, the PLX-2M system is over 50kg in mass, but an integral repulsorlift system allows even a diminutive operator to easily carry the weapon. The guided missiles carry miniature proton warheads, and the weapon is equipped with a sophisticated targeting system which uses holograms to display range, speed, and other information. The operator can easily track targets through rain, darkness, and fog, and the missiles can be set to home on infrared emissions much like 20th century heat-seeking missiles do, or to home in on the gravity-wave anomalies caused by repulsorlift drives. Gravity wave-locks are almost impossible to break, even for skilled pilots, and the missile has a range of fifty kilometres, so it can only be outrun if the vehicle is unusually fast. Standard loadout is six missiles.[/quote]

This suggests a much heavier weapon that what is described by Sarvok. Also his claims about dozens of reloads and a high rate of fire are presumably game mechanics. Also they are far too destructive to be used effectively in many situations. It would be the equivalent of using a grenade launcher as the primary weapon of a military.[/quote]

You mean like what the Space Marines use as a primary weapon? Against a foe where your usual weapons don't work effectively you have to go to a more effective gun and against light vehicle equivalent super soldiers this weapon as a mainstay might make sense.

[Lord Relvenous]

@Sarevok: How rare are they? With those types of capabilities, you'd think you'd see them as the basic weaponry of SW forces.

The way he describes that weapon is almost certainly game mechanics.

According to the SWEGWT, the PLX-2M system is over 50kg in mass, but an integral repulsorlift system allows even a diminutive operator to easily carry the weapon. The guided missiles carry miniature proton warheads, and the weapon is equipped with a sophisticated targeting system which uses holograms to display range, speed, and other information. The operator can easily track targets through rain, darkness, and fog, and the missiles can be set to home on infrared emissions much like 20th century heat-seeking missiles do, or to home in on the gravity-wave anomalies caused by repulsorlift drives. Gravity wave-locks are almost impossible to break, even for skilled pilots, and the missile has a range of fifty kilometres, so it can only be outrun if the vehicle is unusually fast. Standard loadout is six missiles.

This suggests a much heavier weapon that what is described by Sarvok. Also his claims about dozens of reloads and a high rate of fire are presumably game mechanics. Also they are far too destructive to be used effectively in many situations. It would be the equivalent of using a grenade launcher as the primary weapon of a military.

If it's game mechanics, then never mind. Game mechanics aren't a valid source for weapon capabilities, and as such don't really have a place in a discussion involving two separate universes based on background.

[Darth Wong]

Wow. The first few pages of this thread were dominated by some idiot going on at length about how everything in all of the official literature about stormtroopers is defeated by an incident in a comic book for which he provided no scanned images or any other kind of evidence apart from his verbal description. Why did it go on that long without someone demanding that he ante up? Especially when he posted monumentally stupid things like asking if "force" is a valid unit of measure?

[takemeout_totheblack]

Yeah, sorry about that. Not my best...multiple posts on a single subject. I concede my ignorance.
Either way, I learned a few things and my questions were answered in another thread, which is why I registered on SD.net in the first place.

[Aaron]

Distruptor range is a serious issue, but I think the line of thought here is 'Space Marine breaches prefab base wall and now stopping power is needed' i.e. distuptor side-arm.
It would make a devastating close quarters weapon for the Stormies, seeing as how Space Marine durability and armor makes standard blaster rifles ineffective in the 'kill enemy before he tears me in half' department. True, lucky shots are well within possibility, but why rely on luck?

See, your better off to get them at range because SM's advantages are magnified quite a bit at close quarters. So your disrupter sidearm would be a good last ditch weapon, but the user is likely to just get cut in half by his squad mate's chainsword, combat knife. The average mook in SW can't quite compete with the reflexes and speed of a SM.

In general, I think you'd be better off with something like this:



or an E-Web for long distances and what the guy in the front has:



For the infantry, assuming it has similar power to the Clone's rifles. IIRC those took down the large battledroids and small walkers in AOTC.

[Darth Wong]

For the infantry, assuming it has similar power to the Clone's rifles. IIRC those took down the large battledroids and small walkers in AOTC.

A direct hit from one of those big AOTC clonetrooper rifles blew a droideka in half in the arena.

[Aaron]

Those are the ones with the shields and quad guns, right?

Should do for a Space Marine then.

[takemeout_totheblack]

See, your better off to get them at range because SM's advantages are magnified quite a bit at close quarters. So your disrupter sidearm would be a good last ditch weapon, but the user is likely to just get cut in half by his squad mate's chainsword, combat knife. The average mook in SW can't quite compete with the reflexes and speed of a SM.

In general, I think you'd be better off with something like this:



or an E-Web for long distances and what the guy in the front has:



For the infantry, assuming it has similar power to the Clone's rifles. IIRC those took down the large battledroids and small walkers in AOTC.

I was suggesting that the disruptor would be a last ditch weapon, something with big one-shot-kill capability but with a range still greater than a chainsword's. But yeah, actual defense would be carried out by concentrated E-web fire, sniper support, and general saturation fire from several hundred high-powered combat rifles.
In this scenario the distruptor serves the function that the M1911 service pistol did in WWII-Vietnam; iffy range but a lot of stopping power.

[takemeout_totheblack]

Is this the weapon that busted the Droidika's shields? My memory is a little fuzzy.

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/starw ... _Rifle.jpg

The wookiepedia article says that a full power blast would 'leave a 0.5 meter hole in any ferroconcrete wall'. Would that be .5 meter deep, or .5 meter wide? Either way, it'll ruin someone's day from a distance, 10km on a full power shot!
If I was fighting a psychotic walking tank I'd want one of these things to keep him good and far away.

[Aaron]

10kms away? I hope it has some sort of stabilization, otherwise your just wasting ammo.

Edit: That should be fire control system. Hopefully everyone gets what I'm trying to get out.

[Imperial Overlord]

Those are the ones with the shields and quad guns, right?

Should do for a Space Marine then.

Problem is Droidika are pretty skinny droids and we saw no shield effects around it during the AOTC arena fight. I'm sure you can take down a Marine with those rifles (hell, I mentioned it earlier in the thread) but you might need a lot of shots..

[Darth Wong]

How dependent are they upon their power armour? Power armour tends to be treated in sci-fi like it's either dead or alive, but in reality it should be more like any other kind of vehicle; it should be possible to score a "mobility kill" on a power armoured opponent by doing sufficient damage to make its power-assisted locomotion fail. It's not as if hits are going to be either fatal or harmless.

[Connor MacLeod]

10kms away? I hope it has some sort of stabilization, otherwise your just wasting ammo.

With a tripod as I recall. Basically we're talking a marksman/sniper type setup.

Clonetrooper rifles are a bit weird in that respect. They're big and bulky and seem to fill the role of LMG/light repeater, a Markskman/antimaterial rifle, and/or a battle rifle. Basically a swiss army long arm, while they use the carbine version for close quarters stuff. I'm guessing this goes with their "heavily trained/cross trained do anything" type nature that necessitated them training incesseantly for ten years.

Once the Empire takes charge there seems to be alot more diversity (like iwth the sandtrooper image.. they seem to have a heavy rifle, some medium rifles, but also still pistols and carbines. As well as IIRC mortars and grenade launchers.)

[Darth Wong]

Maybe their max effective range is based on a large "beaten zone" rather than actual direct-fire hits.

[Connor MacLeod]

How dependent are they upon their power armour? Power armour tends to be treated in sci-fi like it's either dead or alive, but in reality it should be more like any other kind of vehicle; it should be possible to score a "mobility kill" on a power armoured opponent by doing sufficient damage to make its power-assisted locomotion fail. It's not as if hits are going to be either fatal or harmless.

Possible since they do have servos, but I dont recall it ever happening in any novel. The armor can weigh anything fron a hundred kilos to several hundred kilos, and the guys wearing them are basically genetically engineered supermen (something like 10x greater strength baseline) The power armor magnifies this by several times at least, and makes the armor easier to move around in (as if they were wearing clothes basically.)

However, if you're using heavy blaster rifles, then its more than likely that any squad or several squads will simply down one from concetnrated max-power fire - from the durabilities I've been able to estimate for the power armor, I don't see any reason why a max power shot (if nothing else) would punch a hole in it - if they put a half meter hole in ferrocrete they should be able to blow a person apart quite easily.

Other than that, just aim for the weak points. There's lots of points that aren't as well armored, and a DC-15 in "marksman" mode probably could score a kill on, say, the neck area.

[Connor MacLeod]

Maybe their max effective range is based on a large "beaten zone" rather than actual direct-fire hits.

That's another possibility. We dont knwo for sure whether its point or area target (although I am not sure there'd be THAt much differene either way, and the rifle seems to work equally well as a sniper weapon as a machine gun.)

[Aaron]

How dependent are they upon their power armour? Power armour tends to be treated in sci-fi like it's either dead or alive, but in reality it should be more like any other kind of vehicle; it should be possible to score a "mobility kill" on a power armoured opponent by doing sufficient damage to make its power-assisted locomotion fail. It's not as if hits are going to be either fatal or harmless.

Marines fight and train, damn near live in the armour 24/7. They can fight without it, their still heads and shoulders above a normal human without it, even having a sort of integral body armour.

There are weak spots of course; joints and such but they can still be combat effective with an unpowered suit. They just won't be "the equal of ten men."

Maybe their max effective range is based on a large "beaten zone" rather than actual direct-fire hits.

Possibly as a "group fire" type deal. Beaten zone refers to something else, and is specific to machine guns.