Majority of IPCC science sound, a few errors found

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Vyraeth
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Majority of IPCC science sound, a few errors found

Post by Vyraeth »

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2010/fe ... rt//print/
Associated Press wrote:Scientists seek better way to do climate report

Seth Borenstein ASSOCIATED PRESS

WASHINGTON (AP) -- A steady drip of unsettling errors is exposing what scientists are calling "the weaker link" in the Nobel Peace Prize-winning series of international reports on global warming.

The flaws -- and the erosion they've caused in public confidence -- have some scientists calling for drastic changes in how future United Nations climate reports are done. A push for reform being published in Thursday's issue of a prestigious scientific journal comes on top of a growing clamor for the resignation of the chairman of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.

The work of the climate change panel, or IPCC, is often portrayed as one massive tome. But it really is four separate reports on different aspects of global warming, written months apart by distinct groups of scientists.

No errors have surfaced in the first and most well-known of the reports, which said the physics of a warming atmosphere and rising seas is man-made and incontrovertible. So far, four mistakes have been discovered in the second report, which attempts to translate what global warming might mean to daily lives around the world.

"A lot of stuff in there was just not very good," said Kevin Trenberth, head of climate analysis at the National Center for Atmospheric Research and a lead author of the first report. "A chronic problem is that on the whole area of impacts, getting into the realm of social science, it is a softer science. The facts are not as good."

It's been a dismal winter for climate scientists after the high point of winning the 2007 Nobel, along with former Vice President Al Gore, for championing efforts to curb global warming and documenting its effects.

--In November, stolen private e-mails from a British university climate center embarrassed a number of scientists for their efforts to stonewall climate skeptics. The researchers were found to have violated Britain's Freedom of Information laws.

--In December, the much anticipated climate summit of world leaders in Copenhagen failed to produce a meaningful mandatory agreement to curb greenhouse gases.

--Climate legislation in the United States, considered key to any significant progress in slowing global warming, is stalled.

--Some Republican U.S. senators, climate skeptics and British newspapers have called for Rajendra Pachauri, chairman of the IPCC, to resign. They contend he has financial conflicts of interest involving his role with the climate panel and a green-energy foundation he set up. He has vigorously denied any conflicts.

--And in recent weeks, a batch of mistakes have been uncovered in the second of the four climate research reports produced in 2007.

That second report -- which examines current effects of global warming and forecasts future ones on people, plants, animals and society -- at times relied on government reports or even advocacy group reports instead of peer-reviewed research. Scientists say that's because there is less hard data on global warming's effects.

Nine different experts told The Associated Press that the second report -- because of the nature of what it examines -- doesn't rely on standards as high or literature as deep as the more quoted first report. And they say cite communication problems between lead authors of different reports so it is harder to spot errors.

The end result is that the document on the effects of climate change promotes the worst of nightmares and engages in purposeful hyping, said longtime skeptic John Christy of the University of Alabama, Huntsville.

David King, Britain's former chief scientific adviser who once lectured at the University of East Anglia, home to the climate center where scientist e-mails were hacked said that scandal laid bare the weaknesses in the IPCC. In a telephone interview, he said those who challenged the IPCC's assessment "are seen to be rocking the boat, and this in my view is extremely unfortunate."

Scientists -- including top U.S. government officials -- argue that the bulk of the reports are sound.

"The vast majority of conclusions in the IPCC are credible, have been through a very rigorous process and are absolutely state of the science, state of the art about what we know of the climate system," said National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration chief Jane Lubchenco, who runs the agency that oversees much of the U.S. government's climate research.

The problems found in the IPCC 2007 reports so far are mostly embarrassing:

--In the Asian chapter, five errors in a single entry on glaciers in Himalayas say those glaciers would disappear by 2035 -- hundreds of years earlier than other information suggests -- with no research backing it up. It used an advocacy group as a source. It also erroneously said the Himalayan glaciers were melting faster than other glaciers.

--A sentence in the chapter on Europe says 55 percent of the Netherlands is below sea level, when it's really about half that amount.

--A section in the Africa chapter that talks about northern African agriculture says climate change and normal variability could reduce crop yields. But it gets oversimplified in later summaries so that lower projected crop yields are blamed solely on climate change.

--There's been a longstanding dispute about weather extremes and economics. The second report says that there are more weather disasters than before because of climate change and that it is costing more. The debate continues over whether it is fair to say increased disaster costs are due to global warming or other societal factors such as increased development in hurricane prone areas.

Scientists say the nature of the science and the demands of governments for a localized tally of climate change effects and projections of future ones make the second report a bit more prone to mistakes than the first report. Regional research is more often done by governments or environmental groups; using that work is allowed by IPCC rules even if it is seen as less rigorous than traditional peer-reviewed research, said Martin Parry, chairman in charge of the report on climate effects.

The second report includes chapters on each region, which governments want to be mostly written by local experts, some of whom may not have the science credentials of other report authors. That's where at least three of the errors were found.

In Thursday's issue of the journal Nature, four IPCC authors call for reform, including Christy, who suggests the outright dumping of the panel itself in favor of an effort modeled after Wikipedia, the online encyclopedia. A fifth author, writing in Nature, argues the IPCC rules are fine but need to be better enforced.

In response, Chris Field of Stanford University, the new head of the second report team, said that he welcomes the scrutiny and vows stricter enforcement of rules to check sources to eliminate errors in future reports; those are to be produced by the IPCC starting in 2013.

Many IPCC scientists say it's impressive that so far only four errors have been found in 986 pages of the second report, with the overwhelming majority of the findings correct and well-supported.

However, former IPCC Chairman Bob Watson said, "We cannot take that attitude. Any mistakes do allow skeptics to have a field day and to use it to undermine public confidence, private sector confidence, government confidence in the IPCC."

___

Associated Press writer Raphael Satter contributed to this report from London.
A few salient points:

1) As has been discussed on this board before, the article confirms that a majority of the issues raised by the IPCC global warming reports are valid and accurate.
2) The errors that have been discovered in the IPCC global warming reviews are centered around poor research methods (drawing information from advocacy groups, etc.) and are focused mainly in the social sciences which is already known to be softer and harder to define experimentally.
3) The article shows a nice example of how the scientific community works to correct errors in research and data. Most of the people who frequent this board already know that, but for people who are skeptical of scientific methodology, this is a very current and real example of how the system works and why it's so effective.
4) The first report, arguably the most important, has no errors in it, which makes the case for global warming rather difficult to ignore.

The one thing I'm curious about though is how the information from advocacy groups was included in the initial reports. Was this work done by graduate students? I would like more details because I have trouble seeing veteran scientists willingly pull data from non-peer reviewed sources.

Hopefully, this finally puts down a few of the global warming critics who used the e-mail controversy to further espouse their disbelief.
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Re: Majority of IPCC science sound, a few errors found

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This won't change a damned thing. The anti-GW people had exactly the same certainty before any errors were identified at all. They will not lose any of their certainty from hearing that the errors are known to be relatively unimportant.

The contents of the reports are pretty much irrelevant to the anti-GW position anyway. It's based on emotional complacency, ie- the fact that it doesn't feel like something bad is happening, so it must not be, and any other opinion is just "alarmism".
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Re: Majority of IPCC science sound, a few errors found

Post by Formless »

I agree, these the kind of global warming "skeptic" who jumps on little mistakes by scientists like this aren't interested in the actual workings of science, or they probably wouldn't be "skeptics" in the first place. In actuality they operate on bias confirmation, hence why they look for any minor mistake like this to parade around as a "smoking gun" to prove in their minds that its all a conspiracy to take their money.
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Re: Majority of IPCC science sound, a few errors found

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Hm-mm. The few errors are latched onto and suddenly everything is suspect. All they need is the smallest of mistakes. And even if the research and findings were somehow perfect, that still wouldn't be good enough. Deniers will always find something to quibble with.

And look at the storms we've just had on the East Coast of the US. Some people have cleverly declared, "Ha, so this is Global Warming, right?" I was quite pleased to see that some of the reader comments following an article on the storm featured on The Philadelphia Inquirer's site were countered quickly by other readers pointing out that, "No, actually, this storm is not indicative of GW being a hoax. On the contrary, such storms may be symptomatic of GW." And on and on.

One of the climatologists involved in the e-mail "scandal" of a few months back was recently cleared of misconduct following an investigation by the university he works for. Was this covered as extensively and breathlessly as was the original e-mail "scandal"? Not hardly.
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Re: Majority of IPCC science sound, a few errors found

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FSTargetDrone wrote:Hm-mm. The few errors are latched onto and suddenly everything is suspect. All they need is the smallest of mistakes. And even if the research and findings were somehow perfect, that still wouldn't be good enough. Deniers will always find something to quibble with.
This. It's a popular mentality, since most people have no idea how to evaluate evidence. It's especially present if you've made up your mind already, and you can always redefine your position a dozen times in a single paragraph if it looks like it's untenable, because no GW "skeptic" actually has to present a proper scientific argument, just spout rhethoric.

I see it most often with Apollo hoaxers, who often ignore incredibly convincing evidence (What do you mean, the moon rocks are nothing at all like any rock found on earth?) against their position, and treat the flimsiest things (This random Hasselblad employee said once a single photo looks faked!) as silver bullets proving their position beyond any doubt.

Same mechanism.
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Re: Majority of IPCC science sound, a few errors found

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FSTargetDrone wrote:Hm-mm. The few errors are latched onto and suddenly everything is suspect. All they need is the smallest of mistakes.
And then they will claim that "the data is suspect, therefore everything is invalid" and there's no reasoning with them. It's like talking to a brick wall.
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Re: Majority of IPCC science sound, a few errors found

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PeZook wrote:
FSTargetDrone wrote:Hm-mm. The few errors are latched onto and suddenly everything is suspect. All they need is the smallest of mistakes. And even if the research and findings were somehow perfect, that still wouldn't be good enough. Deniers will always find something to quibble with.
This. It's a popular mentality, since most people have no idea how to evaluate evidence. It's especially present if you've made up your mind already, and you can always redefine your position a dozen times in a single paragraph if it looks like it's untenable, because no GW "skeptic" actually has to present a proper scientific argument, just spout rhethoric.

I see it most often with Apollo hoaxers, who often ignore incredibly convincing evidence (What do you mean, the moon rocks are nothing at all like any rock found on earth?) against their position, and treat the flimsiest things (This random Hasselblad employee said once a single photo looks faked!) as silver bullets proving their position beyond any doubt.

Same mechanism.
Yeah, but the underlying mechanism has nothing to do with anything that comes out of their mouth. The underlying mechanism is that people find it emotionally desirable to simplify complex issues into simple ones. It's not just political radicals; it's a basic human trait. If you have a higher level of comprehension because of education then you don't need to do this because you already understand some of those complexities, but if you haven't learned them already, you aren't going to willingly do it on your own. That's why we have to force kids to attend school.

As a result, people just love to simplify complex issues into something they can understand. That's why sex scandals are so devastating: they allow people to simplify their evaluation of a political figure's policies and abilities into an incredibly simple issue. That's also why a single brutal sound-bite can kill an entire political campaign. This is why you see this "silver bullet" mentality with people who deny the Moon landings, global warming, or evolution, or mindless repetition of slogans (which you also see on the left wing with union supporters for example).
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Re: Majority of IPCC science sound, a few errors found

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If you have a higher level of comprehension because of education then you don't need to do this because you already understand some of those complexities, but if you haven't learned them already, you aren't going to willingly do it on your own. That's why we have to force kids to attend school.
This is especially true because when you master a complex subject through education, you not only appreciate the complexities of your subject, you have some idea of how complex other subjects are and the intellectual effort that goes into learning them. So instead of trying to simplify entire fields down into a sound-bite, you have some sense of how complex those fields are stopping you. Also, the golden rule kicks in: when people simplify your field into a no-brain one-liner, you stop wanting to do the same to other fields.
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Re: Majority of IPCC science sound, a few errors found

Post by KrauserKrauser »

Well, I'm glad to see this outcome from the recent revelations. It more than likely won't convince anyone firmly on the denial side but if nothing else will hopefully make whatever policy decisions that are made in the future more accurate and effective.
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Re: Majority of IPCC science sound, a few errors found

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Surlethe wrote: This is especially true because when you master a complex subject through education, you not only appreciate the complexities of your subject, you have some idea of how complex other subjects are and the intellectual effort that goes into learning them. So instead of trying to simplify entire fields down into a sound-bite, you have some sense of how complex those fields are stopping you. Also, the golden rule kicks in: when people simplify your field into a no-brain one-liner, you stop wanting to do the same to other fields.
Now that you mention it, I noticed that trend in my own thinking: I tend to automatically look for complexity in a given subject, especially when I see someone ask a "common sense" question. To come back to the Apollo hoax: there is an argument floating about: "If NASA could do it with 1960s tech, why can't they do that now? They should just build another Saturn V and prove the landings are possible!".

It's naturally a massive simplification of the issue, but there is a major difference in receiving it: many people will think it's actually a good argument, because they don't appreciate the fact that making rockets is an extremely complicated process, not at all like an RTS game where you can research Saturn V and then always build them with a couple of clicks.

On the other hand, I was flabbergasted at the idiocy of this argument the moment I saw it, even though I had never in my life managed any industrial project, much less one of such enormous scale and complexity. It was just so...obvious. I mean, I studied economics: pretty much as far away from engineering or industrial management as you can get. I still wonder if it's just education that gives one this kind of perspective.
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JULY 20TH 1969 - The day the entire world was looking up

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