Fall of the Lich King - Patch 3.3

[Sinewmire]

Every thing that you do to advance is lined with hundreds of failures.

I suppose so. There *are* a lot of bodies in the valley of heroes, but not so much failures as casualties. Other than wrathgate, do Team White Hat even suffer setbacks?

[Ghost Rider]

Every thing that you do to advance is lined with hundreds of failures.

I suppose so. There *are* a lot of bodies in the valley of heroes, but not so much failures as casualties. Other than wrathgate, do Team White Hat even suffer setbacks?

All of the Icecrown missions are best shoring up the stupidity of both sides killing each other on large scale. Ulduar is the only real win with what happens at the end with signal. Both ToGC and ICC are stalemates at best with losses throughout.

[Civil War Man]

There's also the massive clusterfuck that was the Argent Vanguard, where the Crusade pretty much walks into a trap and you have to pull their asses out of the fire, eventually letting them advance far enough to build a single tower overlooking Scourgeholme.

I also consider it rather funny that the Ebon Blade seems to be one of the few factions that does not have a "Whoops, we just got infiltrated by the bad guys" quest.

[Sinewmire]

All of the Icecrown missions are best shoring up the stupidity of both sides killing each other on large scale.

That *really* annoyed me. Attacking the alliance from behind whilst they fight the scourge! With HONOUR! Woo-ra!
That just isn't true though. You take the Shadow Vault, drestroy the Fleshwerks, destroy the morale and effectiveness of the Vrykul/Ymirjar and kill a bazillion of Arthas' liutenants. you significantly weaken Arthas personally through the Lehrer questline too. Losses? Troopers die. How is that not a win?

Ulduar is the only real win with what happens at the end with signal.

You kill a god. Sounds like a win to me, sure.

Both ToGC and ICC are stalemates at best with losses throughout.

You mean ToGC which is a training exercise where you end up killing Arthas' most powerful liutenant? How is that anything but a catastrophic defeat for the scourge? Sure there's losses, but they're obviously not prohibitive as there's still plenty of manpower to waste in the Saronite mines and the assault on Icecrown.

ICC could be described as a stalemate, but frankly that's just because Blizzard pulled a reason for Arthas sitting on his arse all the time, and the reason the scourge can still exist out of their collective butts by ripping off Pirates of the Caribbean. Say it with me: Part of the ship, part of the crew... part of the ship, part of the crew...

Arthas' humanity is the only thing stopping the Scourge sweeping across Azeroth? The same Arthas who murdered his own father, scourged his own people and attempted to wipe out the entire elven race? The same Arthas who there is a long quest chain displaying that he has no humanity left (Mattias Lehrer).

The only thing that isn't an outright win here is that killing Arthas seems more or less pointless because of what goes down afterwards. Or am I missing something?

[Darth Yan]

They also put aside their pissy fight in icecrown to defeat Arthas. Given the buildup, losses at Icecrown were sort of inevitable.

[Ghost Rider]

All of the Icecrown missions are best shoring up the stupidity of both sides killing each other on large scale.

That *really* annoyed me. Attacking the alliance from behind whilst they fight the scourge! With HONOUR! Woo-ra!
That just isn't true though. You take the Shadow Vault, drestroy the Fleshwerks, destroy the morale and effectiveness of the Vrykul/Ymirjar and kill a bazillion of Arthas' liutenants. you significantly weaken Arthas personally through the Lehrer questline too. Losses? Troopers die. How is that not a win?

Because all you are doing is shoring up the thousands of losses already suffered.

Ulduar is the only real win with what happens at the end with signal.

You kill a god. Sounds like a win to me, sure.[/quote]

Uh...yeah.

1. You only contain Yogg...just like Cthun. They mention this fact multiple times that you cannot kill any of the old gods.

2. Alganon was about to turn the whole planet into a cinder. Which you essentially persuade him not too, by demonstrating you aren't going to let him.

Both ToGC and ICC are stalemates at best with losses throughout.

You mean ToGC which is a training exercise where you end up killing Arthas' most powerful liutenant? How is that anything but a catastrophic defeat for the scourge? Sure there's losses, but they're obviously not prohibitive as there's still plenty of manpower to waste in the Saronite mines and the assault on Icecrown.[/quote]

Strange that you essentially murder people that could've helped out and for what? So you beat up on left over guy that Arthas threw at you because he figured he could get a few more lives?

ICC could be described as a stalemate, but frankly that's just because Blizzard pulled a reason for Arthas sitting on his arse all the time, and the reason the scourge can still exist out of their collective butts by ripping off Pirates of the Caribbean. Say it with me: Part of the ship, part of the crew... part of the ship, part of the crew...

Have you seen how many are pretty much being killed in ICC? The only reason Arthas even gets stopped is essentially the players are now regarded as a threat versus....everything else. Which is actually a decent change. Mind you, the Argent Crusade is still fucking up immensely in ICC, and you're there to clean up their messes....again.

Arthas' humanity is the only thing stopping the Scourge sweeping across Azeroth? The same Arthas who murdered his own father, scourged his own people and attempted to wipe out the entire elven race? The same Arthas who there is a long quest chain displaying that he has no humanity left (Mattias Lehrer).

Their lore to fuck up with. Same as making the WC2 become "Uh...yeah...about that breaking up of Outland. Just fucking with you.".

The only thing that isn't an outright win here is that killing Arthas seems more or less pointless because of what goes down afterwards. Or am I missing something?

Given that ToGC, you kill people to prove you are worthy and kill a ressurected lieutenant. Hell...most ICC has been you cleaning up fuck ups, and ICC is you getting stalemated at the end. Ulduar's only true win because your world is going to be destroyed by the creators. Yogg is just contained again. Naxx...well at least you got the fortress down, there's a win!

You've still had hundreds of thousands of losses all to contain the Lich King and Yogg Saron. Compare that to TBC where you first pushed back and then destroyed a large contingent of the Burning Legion, and halted Kil Jaeden. Wrath is essentially a clean up wherein you nearly lose because Arthas was this close to fucking you over, and all your sides gained was virtually nothing other then multiple deaths and seeing a walrus folk.

[Civil War Man]

They also put aside their pissy fight in icecrown to defeat Arthas. Given the buildup, losses at Icecrown were sort of inevitable.

Except they didn't put aside their pissing match. One of the first things that happens in the Citadel is the Horde and Alliance going at it so they can get to the Lich King first.

That just isn't true though. You take the Shadow Vault, drestroy the Fleshwerks, destroy the morale and effectiveness of the Vrykul/Ymirjar and kill a bazillion of Arthas' liutenants. you significantly weaken Arthas personally through the Lehrer questline too. Losses? Troopers die. How is that not a win?

Icecrown is the Argent Crusade and the Ebon Blade working to undermine Arthas in spite of the Alliance and Horde doing everything they can to sabotage the offensive. Shadow Vault? Ebon Blade. Fleshwerks? Ebon Blade and Argent Crusade. Vrykul? Mostly Ebon Blade, some Argent Crusade, and a few half-assed contributions from the Alliance and Horde. Arthas's Lieutenants? Almost entirely Ebon Blade. Matthias Lehner? Mostly Argent Crusade, with the Ebon Blade riding in to the rescue when the Paladins get in over their heads.

What do the Alliance and Horde contribute in Icecrown? Bombing missions and ganking each other, with each dead trooper adding to Arthas's army. It's not a win because the operations against the Lich King probably would have gone more smoothly if the Alliance and Horde didn't bother to go to Northrend at all.

[Minischoles]

ToC25 HM was a big disappointment for me really, especially after all the work they had put into Ulduar, proving they could actually make pretty decent fights, and then they pull this shit. The only really different fight, was Lord J and Anub. Beasts was just extra damage on the tanks and raid, FC was just 'yay lets make a fight where a clothie can get instagibbed' and Twins was just lol.
One of the things that annoyed me as well, is there's virtually no lore behind it other than 'stupid ass fucking paladin wants you to fight and possibly die to prove yourself'. And this after you've just fucking contained an Old God and saved the world from destruction by fighting a Herald of the Titans. And suddenly it's all 'oh you have to prove yourself by fighting some shit we captured'.

He was, but for all his coolness...he was tacked on. It was as if Blizzard went "Shit, people beat Illidan....and are farming him? But Wrath isn't out. Fuck, fuck, fuck...oh let's do...". I'm amazed they remembered M'Uru.

Though Civil War Man makes the best point. This entire expansion is a bleak one. Every thing that you do to advance is lined with hundreds of failures. And to cap it off....it ends with a stalemate against a foe that is eternal. To be honest Deathwing fucking over the world is more like just a natural progression given what was gained from Wrath.

Yeah pretty much lol, don't think they expected BT to get stomped like it did. You can see in the gating thing they brought out they were buying for time, just like they've been doing with WOTLK now, gating content massively to slow down guilds so they can actually get cata out before too many people get bored. Mu'ru pre nerf was an absolutely nuts fight.

I agree as well that this expansion is pretty much the bleakest. You've failed in nearly everything you've done, the Lich King isn't even gone, all that's really happened is that the antagonism between the Horde and Alliance has been stoked up. About the only success of the expansion has been Ulduar, and that was practically treated as a sideshow. Arthas lore wise has been a massive disappointment once he became the Lich King at least, not surprising that Blizzard basically rewrote their own lore again, since the books have Arthas destroying his last bit of humanity, and killing Ner'zhul and becoming completely the Lich King on his own. So putting the helmet on Bolvar does what?

[Sinewmire]

Because all you are doing is shoring up the thousands of losses already suffered.

You're still destroying Arthas' ability to make more stuff. Worth it. Just 'cause you've suffered losses doesn't mean you've not won.

Uh...yeah.
1. You only contain Yogg...just like Cthun. They mention this fact multiple times that you cannot kill any of the old gods.
2. Alganon was about to turn the whole planet into a cinder. Which you essentially persuade him not too, by demonstrating you aren't going to let him.

Ok, ok for a given value of "kill". That is not dead which can eternal lie, etc etc. Nice fact about Alganon, but don't see how it applies. Yeah it's a win.

Strange that you essentially murder people that could've helped out and for what? So you beat up on left over guy that Arthas threw at you because he figured he could get a few more lives?

Again: Arthas' most valued lietenant barring KT, and you kill him. Arthas wasn't just trying to kill a couple of guys, he was trying for a propaganda victory, to literally undermine the hopeful spirit of the Argent Tournament, and make a mockery of the cencept. You turn that back on him by beating that too.

Again, not denying that they take losses, often pointless ones. Just saying that the losses they take are pitiful compared to the progress made and that you can hardly say it was a draw because they took losses. Maybe if they were significant losses, sure, but hell, is there even any proof the other champions stay dead? They are in a camp full of paladins, and resurrections are confirmed as canon.

Have you seen how many are pretty much being killed in ICC? The only reason Arthas even gets stopped is essentially the players are now regarded as a threat versus....everything else. Which is actually a decent change. Mind you, the Argent Crusade is still fucking up immensely in ICC, and you're there to clean up their messes....again.

Again, sure, they're taking losses, but they're winning. Maybe the Crusade *is* fucking up royal, but so did the Rebellion in Return of the Jedi. They still win, and taking casualties is hardly a setback.

Their lore to fuck up with. Same as making the WC2 become "Uh...yeah...about that breaking up of Outland. Just fucking with you."

Heh, fair point. Hardly the first time WoW has contradicted it's own canon, but given this was basically one plotline in the same game it still reeks of utter retardedness.

Given that ToGC, you kill people to prove you are worthy and kill a ressurected lieutenant. Hell...most ICC has been you cleaning up fuck ups, and ICC is you getting stalemated at the end. Ulduar's only true win because your world is going to be destroyed by the creators. Yogg is just contained again. Naxx...well at least you got the fortress down, there's a win!

You've still had hundreds of thousands of losses all to contain the Lich King and Yogg Saron. Compare that to TBC where you first pushed back and then destroyed a large contingent of the Burning Legion, and halted Kil Jaeden. Wrath is essentially a clean up wherein you nearly lose because Arthas was this close to fucking you over, and all your sides gained was virtually nothing other then multiple deaths and seeing a walrus folk.

Again, the only real stalemate here is ICC because of the whole "There has to be a captain..." thing. It's a win, but a bitter one.

Gains:

Scourge infastructure destroyed
Death Knights removed from the scourge
Naxxramas destroyed
Yogg-Saron contained
World saved from Alganon
Azjol-nerub decapitated
The San'layn killed
Arthas killed
Lich King paralyzed effectively forever

Losses:

Faceless joes killed
Bland Character introduced 5 minutes ago killed
Bolvar Fordragon inconvenienced
Cold toes

I don't disagree that losses were suffered, I just don't see how you can think it's anything but a win. your victory against the Scourge is at least as complete as your victory against the Legion, and the personal defeat of Arthas is far more convincing that the personal defeat of Kil'jaeden.

When was Arthas "this close to fucking you over"? When you have defeated every single offensive he's launched, destroyed his armies, killed his lieutenants, smashed down his fortress and are engaging him in hand to hand combat? Oooh, yeah, he's really got you where he wants you.

[Ghost Rider]

ToC25 HM was a big disappointment for me really, especially after all the work they had put into Ulduar, proving they could actually make pretty decent fights, and then they pull this shit. The only really different fight, was Lord J and Anub. Beasts was just extra damage on the tanks and raid, FC was just 'yay lets make a fight where a clothie can get instagibbed' and Twins was just lol.
One of the things that annoyed me as well, is there's virtually no lore behind it other than 'stupid ass fucking paladin wants you to fight and possibly die to prove yourself'. And this after you've just fucking contained an Old God and saved the world from destruction by fighting a Herald of the Titans. And suddenly it's all 'oh you have to prove yourself by fighting some shit we captured'.

Pretty much. I always thought it would've been nice to have some vendor guy there go "Oh...you beat Yogg-0 AND Alg?....uh here's free loot."

Prove my worth...ok, dippy. I beat something that would stomp Anub into the ground without blinking.

Yeah pretty much lol, don't think they expected BT to get stomped like it did. You can see in the gating thing they brought out they were buying for time, just like they've been doing with WOTLK now, gating content massively to slow down guilds so they can actually get cata out before too many people get bored. Mu'ru pre nerf was an absolutely nuts fight.

Yeah, nuts is the best way of putting it. Goddamn gearing Shamans and pushing everything. Though interestingly, while there's no stacking for Wrath, I still say Firefighter and No lights are still more insane. Gods, learning No Lights is a nightmare even with doing it on 1 Light with certain restrictions of learning what to do.

From what I saw of Arthas on 10 man....he's fucking nuts as well. His regular fight proves painful, I really do wonder how twisted his Heroic will be.

I agree as well that this expansion is pretty much the bleakest. You've failed in nearly everything you've done, the Lich King isn't even gone, all that's really happened is that the antagonism between the Horde and Alliance has been stoked up. About the only success of the expansion has been Ulduar, and that was practically treated as a sideshow. Arthas lore wise has been a massive disappointment once he became the Lich King at least, not surprising that Blizzard basically rewrote their own lore again, since the books have Arthas destroying his last bit of humanity, and killing Ner'zhul and becoming completely the Lich King on his own. So putting the helmet on Bolvar does what?

Bolvar becomes a placeholder

My beef of Arthas lore wise, is they really showed they had no idea if they wanted hints of redemption or just "Jaina stop craving his cock. You too Slyvannas.". Though as much yabbering ICC has, I did enjoy the bits they did with all of the five mans. It felt like what they did with Loken and Ulduar.

[Ghost Rider]

Because all you are doing is shoring up the thousands of losses already suffered.

You're still destroying Arthas' ability to make more stuff. Worth it. Just 'cause you've suffered losses doesn't mean you've not won.

Uh...yeah. Given what happens against Arthas, he's doing to get you. So all that shit you did? Means zilch, nada, nothing to him. He knows he has more, can make more, and would've won if not for a slight push by an unexpected source.

Uh...yeah.
1. You only contain Yogg...just like Cthun. They mention this fact multiple times that you cannot kill any of the old gods.
2. Alganon was about to turn the whole planet into a cinder. Which you essentially persuade him not too, by demonstrating you aren't going to let him.

Ok, ok for a given value of "kill". That is not dead which can eternal lie, etc etc. Nice fact about Alganon, but don't see how it applies. Yeah it's a win.

You cleaned up another mess. Much like everything else. Compared this to Illidan and really it's claiming that because Pyrric victory has victory in the phrase that one can denote they are the same thing.

Strange that you essentially murder people that could've helped out and for what? So you beat up on left over guy that Arthas threw at you because he figured he could get a few more lives?

Again: Arthas' most valued lietenant barring KT, and you kill him. Arthas wasn't just trying to kill a couple of guys, he was trying for a propaganda victory, to literally undermine the hopeful spirit of the Argent Tournament, and make a mockery of the cencept. You turn that back on him by beating that too.

If you want to spin it that way. Given that what is shown in ICC against him, he was doing it all to get the raid. He cared not a shit wit at all about Anub, Kel, or the people you killed in ICC. He's doing it to lure the only fuckers who are making a difference, and their names are not Thrall, Garrosh, or Varian.

Again, not denying that they take losses, often pointless ones. Just saying that the losses they take are pitiful compared to the progress made and that you can hardly say it was a draw because they took losses. Maybe if they were significant losses, sure, but hell, is there even any proof the other champions stay dead? They are in a camp full of paladins, and resurrections are confirmed as canon.

You're making a lot of assumptions given that what Arthas proclaims at the end, and what Tyrian confirms in said Arthas encounter.

Again compare to the facts of what you did against the Burning Legion. The entire Northrend affair has been little gain, immense losses, and more incitement for the Horde and Alliance.

Have you seen how many are pretty much being killed in ICC? The only reason Arthas even gets stopped is essentially the players are now regarded as a threat versus....everything else. Which is actually a decent change. Mind you, the Argent Crusade is still fucking up immensely in ICC, and you're there to clean up their messes....again.

Again, sure, they're taking losses, but they're winning. Maybe the Crusade *is* fucking up royal, but so did the Rebellion in Return of the Jedi. They still win, and taking casualties is hardly a setback.

Yet, that analogy makes no sense, because we don't kill the Emperor or stop a super weapon of the Empire. We STALEMATE the Scourge at the costs of hundreds of thousands. Again, when one takes a direct comparison of Burning Crusade, this entire expansion has been demonstrating the Alliance and Horde killing each other, and stalemating an opponent rather then chasing down and destroying a threat.

Given that ToGC, you kill people to prove you are worthy and kill a ressurected lieutenant. Hell...most ICC has been you cleaning up fuck ups, and ICC is you getting stalemated at the end. Ulduar's only true win because your world is going to be destroyed by the creators. Yogg is just contained again. Naxx...well at least you got the fortress down, there's a win!

You've still had hundreds of thousands of losses all to contain the Lich King and Yogg Saron. Compare that to TBC where you first pushed back and then destroyed a large contingent of the Burning Legion, and halted Kil Jaeden. Wrath is essentially a clean up wherein you nearly lose because Arthas was this close to fucking you over, and all your sides gained was virtually nothing other then multiple deaths and seeing a walrus folk.

Again, the only real stalemate here is ICC because of the whole "There has to be a captain..." thing. It's a win, but a bitter one.

Gains:

Scourge infastructure destroyed
Death Knights removed from the scourge
Naxxramas destroyed
Yogg-Saron contained
World saved from Alganon
Azjol-nerub decapitated
The San'layn killed
Arthas killed
Lich King paralyzed effectively forever

Losses:

Faceless joes killed
Bland Character introduced 5 minutes ago killed
Bolvar Fordragon inconvenienced
Cold toes

I don't disagree that losses were suffered, I just don't see how you can think it's anything but a win. your victory against the Scourge is at least as complete as your victory against the Legion, and the personal defeat of Arthas is far more convincing that the personal defeat of Kil'jaeden.

Whu-huh?

In TBC, you retake Outland, retake the fucking Sunwell, and actually put a real dent in the Burning Legion. Without resorting to Night Elf Deus Ex Machina.

In Wrath, you only stop Arthas because of near miss on his part AND all you get in the end is "Well...I'll put the Scourge asleep, sorry that thousands of our men died in pointless battle. GET THE FUCK OUT OF NORTHREND."

In the end, Wrath's victory is the very definition of phyrric victory.

When was Arthas "this close to fucking you over"? When you have defeated every single offensive he's launched, destroyed his armies, killed his lieutenants, smashed down his fortress and are engaging him in hand to hand combat? Oooh, yeah, he's really got you where he wants you.

Do his encounter. He explains pretty nicely what he was doing and when you get one shotted....that alone demonstrates he was fucking with you. Compare this to Illidan where you make in roads against him and have him cornered.

[Ghost Rider]

One way of looking how much a fuck up Northrend is?

The Airship battle. The two sides are trying to kill the other for the honor of entering the upper spire of the being who wants to rape all of Azeroth. While I love the battle, think about how completely and utterly fucked that is.

[petesampras]

When was Arthas "this close to fucking you over"? When you have defeated every single offensive he's launched, destroyed his armies, killed his lieutenants, smashed down his fortress and are engaging him in hand to hand combat? Oooh, yeah, he's really got you where he wants you.

Do his encounter. He explains pretty nicely what he was doing and when you get one shotted....that alone demonstrates he was fucking with you. Compare this to Illidan where you make in roads against him and have him cornered.

If that really was Arthas's plan all along, it is just further evidence of how poor he was as Lich King. Even if he had managed to pull it off, he was finished. The good guys have him completely on the defensive and are now focused on finished the job. He has not demonstrated any ability to drive them back out of Northrend. A few extra new death knights aren't going to alter the situation.

Given he was already on the verge of death when he used that attack, it was more likely a last ditch use of frostmournes power to save himself. He probably damaged the sword to do it, hence it's later shattering after a single clash with Ashbringer. Saying it was all part of his plan can more reasonably be put down to bravado on his part. He is always saying I'll get you next time, etc.

The final indictment of the complete fail of the Arthas Lich king is when it turns out that the scourge will be more dangerous now that he is dead. A disorganised rabble is a greater threat to Azeroth than one being lead by Arthas.

[Serafina]

When was Arthas "this close to fucking you over"? When you have defeated every single offensive he's launched, destroyed his armies, killed his lieutenants, smashed down his fortress and are engaging him in hand to hand combat? Oooh, yeah, he's really got you where he wants you.

Do his encounter. He explains pretty nicely what he was doing and when you get one shotted....that alone demonstrates he was fucking with you. Compare this to Illidan where you make in roads against him and have him cornered.

If that really was Arthas's plan all along, it is just further evidence of how poor he was as Lich King. Even if he had managed to pull it off, he was finished. The good guys have him completely on the defensive and are now focused on finished the job. He has not demonstrated any ability to drive them back out of Northrend. A few extra new death knights aren't going to alter the situation.

Given he was already on the verge of death when he used that attack, it was more likely a last ditch use of frostmournes power to save himself. He probably damaged the sword to do it, hence it's later shattering after a single clash with Ashbringer. Saying it was all part of his plan can more reasonably be put down to bravado on his part. He is always saying I'll get you next time, etc.

The final indictment of the complete fail of the Arthas Lich king is when it turns out that the scourge will be more dangerous now that he is dead. A disorganised rabble is a greater threat to Azeroth than one being lead by Arthas.

Yeah, that one was quite stupid - particulary if you consider that they are magically animated, so removing the magical leaders SHOULD be a good thing.

Meh, they will propably say that "a part of him hold them back" or something. Because good guys are never totally corrupted or something.

[White Haven]

They said that a long time ago, Serafina, so that's not a retcon. It's been explicitly stated that the reason the Scourge hasn't buttfucked everything is because what's left of Arthas has been influencing the Lich King to hold them back as best he could. Of course this explicit statement, as well as the one during the LK's death cinematic, were both given by spirits trapped within Frostmourne, so it's entirely possible that they were simply the blade influencing Tirion into sacrificing his victory by creating a new Lich King, which would be hilarious.

[Ghost Rider]

And as the top guild are blowing through HM, except Putricide and Arthas...I was yakking with Landsoul and wondered in the glory of Hard Mode Arthas.

So he'll have all his shit, new happy joy-joy attacks, and 100M+ HP. To give an idea of that level of insanity, consider if you by the miracle of skill and lag free...you reach him with 20 out 20. Basically it's implying that you need your DPSers doing around 6-7K each on Arthas alone, discounting the adds, and running around because it is not a tank and spank fight. This Professor on crack and then some.

And people are bitching it's too easy. Fuck, I'll do Yogg-0 again with a smile then what this shit is taunting me with.

[Highlord Laan]

The only real success in Icecrown is the Shadow Vault and and assaults that launch from there. The Skybreaker and it's Horde counterpart spend more time tooling around shooting at each other than doing anything useful, the Argent Crusade is playing games, and the Alliance and Horde in general are more interested in fighting each other than the Scourge.

Figures that the Vault is an Ebon Blade operation. It's blatantly obvious who's doing all the legwork and getting shit done in Icecrown, and it sure as hell isn't the Crusade.

[Civil War Man]

Yeah. I think hard mode Arthas having over 100 million hp is Blizzard's way of saying, in a rather concise manner, that the fight is for hardcore raiding guilds only.

That said, there's going to be a shitload of Hammers of Wrath, Executes, Kill Shots, and Drain Souls flying around late in that fight, since all the final burn execute abilities will become usable when Arthas still has 20 million hp.

[Ghost Rider]

Yeah. I think hard mode Arthas having over 100 million hp is Blizzard's way of saying, in a rather concise manner, that the fight is for hardcore raiding guilds only.

That said, there's going to be a shitload of Hammers of Wrath, Executes, Kill Shots, and Drain Souls flying around late in that fight, since all the final burn execute abilities will become usable when Arthas still has 20 million hp.

Actually at that point, all I've done in our best attempt is continue Cleave/Whirlwind/Bloodthrist/Slam rotation. All do more then Execute and more needed. Even Hammer is likely done only when everything is on cooldown. It's astounding how much shit is flying around in that fight. Basically that entire fight...you can add 45-50 million on top of it all, because there's that many adds, and they are that strong. The 100 Million hurts me because even at 63 Million on normal...the fight is disgusting, literally we are talking about adding another 60-70 million because of adds on hard mode. A 160-170 million HP to burn through in 15 minutes.

I can easily see 8/12 Hardmode pale in comparison given that the battles aren't as intesive and a couple extra attacks won't make up for the shit Arthas throws. I want to either see Paragon/Exodus vids just to see all the crap coming out of him. We might have him down the next raid date, but goddamn....it's painful to dent this fucker.

[Civil War Man]

I'm personally hoping that Heroic Lich King shatters the record for longest undefeated boss, just as a "Fuck you" directed at the "WoW is ez-mode" trolls.

Yeah, a lot of the trolls are probably not going to even unlock hard modes, much less beat them, but it'd still be interesting.

[Maxentius]

They said that a long time ago, Serafina, so that's not a retcon. It's been explicitly stated that the reason the Scourge hasn't buttfucked everything is because what's left of Arthas has been influencing the Lich King to hold them back as best he could. Of course this explicit statement, as well as the one during the LK's death cinematic, were both given by spirits trapped within Frostmourne, so it's entirely possible that they were simply the blade influencing Tirion into sacrificing his victory by creating a new Lich King, which would be hilarious.

It's a retcon, sort of. I believe Jaina mentions it during her conversation with Uther in Halls of Reflection, that "the last vestiges of Arthas' humanity are all that keep the Scourge from overrunning all Azeroth" or some such.

The problem with that is that the Mattias Lehrner questline in Icecrown pretty much establishes that Arthas has no humanity left.

[Ghost Rider]

I'm personally hoping that Heroic Lich King shatters the record for longest undefeated boss, just as a "Fuck you" directed at the "WoW is ez-mode" trolls.

Yeah, a lot of the trolls are probably not going to even unlock hard modes, much less beat them, but it'd still be interesting.

At 103 Million, he should be the number 1 monster battle. Also a lot of trolls forget that barring resist or gear specific cock blocks all raids are downed by the top 50 guilds really fast. The number has actually horrified a few high enders because they realize how much their raid has to step up and the fact even with alts, the perfection needed.

[Darmalus]

I think a lot of those "e-z mode" trolls just want to be extra special snowflakes and be among the only ones to see Arthas at all. So as long as Blizzard tries to make sure a large portion of the player base can see all the content on normal mode, those trolls will continue to go "2 ez lawl" the moment anyone beats the last boss, even if it's the best guild in the world doing it on 10N.

I like the new method of releasing content, myself. If Ignus hadn't been the weekly raid boss, I would have gotten to see Yogg for the first time ever last week (we reset it, instead of extending the lockout as planned). I still haven't seen SSC or Sunwell.

And 103 million HP is crazy. Best of luck to you.

[Minischoles]

They said that a long time ago, Serafina, so that's not a retcon. It's been explicitly stated that the reason the Scourge hasn't buttfucked everything is because what's left of Arthas has been influencing the Lich King to hold them back as best he could. Of course this explicit statement, as well as the one during the LK's death cinematic, were both given by spirits trapped within Frostmourne, so it's entirely possible that they were simply the blade influencing Tirion into sacrificing his victory by creating a new Lich King, which would be hilarious.

It's a retcon, sort of. I believe Jaina mentions it during her conversation with Uther in Halls of Reflection, that "the last vestiges of Arthas' humanity are all that keep the Scourge from overrunning all Azeroth" or some such.

The problem with that is that the Mattias Lehrner questline in Icecrown pretty much establishes that Arthas has no humanity left.

Not just the questline, they had Christie Golden write a fucking book about Arthas, where he kills off his inner child, and kills off Ner'zhul as well, becoming the one and only LK. Blizzard are retconning, within a few months of established canon, since they realised they'd built up Arthas as this Big Bad, but really - he did shit all.


I'm really hoping Arthas HM absolutely bitch slaps even the hardcore guilds. LK normal did for some, there's a fuckload of drama surrounding some US guild, who couldn't down LK normal, so to keep up they recruited a mage from Vis Maior, so they could access hardmodes this reset. Ensidia did roughly the same (they used an alt) and I imagine a fair few other guilds are doing the same.

[Civil War Man]

I think a lot of those "e-z mode" trolls just want to be extra special snowflakes and be among the only ones to see Arthas at all. So as long as Blizzard tries to make sure a large portion of the player base can see all the content on normal mode, those trolls will continue to go "2 ez lawl" the moment anyone beats the last boss, even if it's the best guild in the world doing it on 10N.

Pretty much. I'm guessing that most of the ezmode trolls are people who can't hack it on the hard modes, and so they're pissed off that they can't distinguish themselves from the casual raiders while pretending to AFK in Dalaran.

It's really obvious when the exchange goes like this:
Troll: WoW is ez mode lawl
Other Person: Do hard modes.
Troll: Im not doing hard modes their stupid