Cold Snap Slaughters FL Invasives.

SLAM: debunk creationism, pseudoscience, and superstitions. Discuss logic and morality.

Moderator: Alyrium Denryle

Post Reply
User avatar
Alyrium Denryle
Minister of Sin
Posts: 22224
Joined: 2002-07-11 08:34pm
Location: The Deep Desert
Contact:

Cold Snap Slaughters FL Invasives.

Post by Alyrium Denryle »

Link
South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com
Cold snap killed many pythons in Everglades
Pythons, iguanas, non-native fish died in January freeze

By David Fleshler and Lisa J. Huriash, Sun Sentinel

10:29 AM EST, February 11, 2010
Click Here

Vultures circled over Everglades National Park's Anhinga Trail, where thousands of dead non-native fish floated in the marshes.

About half the Burmese pythons found in the park in the past few weeks were dead.

Dead iguanas have dropped from trees onto patios across South Florida. And in western Miami-Dade County, three African rock pythons — powerful constrictors that can kill people — have turned up dead.

Although South Florida's warm, moist climate has nurtured a vast range of non-native plants and animals, a cold snap last month reminded these unwanted guests they're not in Burma or Ecuador anymore.

Temperatures that dropped into the 30s killed Burmese pythons, iguanas and other marquee names in the state's invasive species zoo.

Although reports so far say the cold has not eliminated any of them, it has sharply reduced their numbers, which some say may indicate South Florida is not as welcoming to invaders as originally thought.

"Anecdotally, we might have lost maybe half of the pythons out there to the cold," said Scott Hardin, the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission's exotic species coordinator. "Iguanas definitely. From a collection of observations from people, more than 50 percent fatality on green iguanas. Green iguanas really got hit hard. Lots of freshwater fish died; no way to estimate that."

The cold snap has played into a highly politicized debate over how to prevent non-native species from colonizing the United States. Reptile dealers and hobbyists strongly oppose a proposal by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service to ban the import of and interstate trade in Burmese pythons and several other large snakes. They say South Florida's cold snap shows these species don't threaten to spread north, as some claim, and a federal crackdown is unnecessary.

"Pythons are tropical animals," said Andrew Wyatt, president of the United States Association of Reptile Keepers. "When temperatures fall below a certain level, they are unable to survive. It reinforces the idea that the pythons can't exist more than a short period of time north of Lake Okeechobee. Even the pythons in the Everglades are dying during the cold snap."

Wyatt said scientists are downplaying the effect of cold weather on the pythons because that would undermine their ability to win grants to study a problem that has received international publicity.

"It's all about money," he said. "It's very little to do with the truth of fundamental problems on the ground."

But federal and state wildlife officials say the cold weather has not solved the problem. Not only did pythons survive, but so did other invasive species, even if the cold set them back a bit.

Along the park's Gulf Coast, where old-world climbing ferns lay dense mats over native trees, the cold snap inflicted frost damage on these invaders from Asia and Australia, said David Hallac, chief biologist at Everglades National Park. But it didn't kill them, he said, and they continue to spread.

And although they receive less publicity than pythons, non-native fish have infested the Everglades. The cold weather apparently killed them in the thousands, including the Mayan cichlid, walking catfish and spotfin spiny eel, Hallac said. But at the bottom of canals and other water bodies, pockets of warm water allowed some of these fish to survive, he said, giving them a chance to repopulate the park once the weather warms up.

No one knows how many Burmese pythons live in the Everglades, where they were released as unwanted pets or where they found refuge after hurricanes destroyed their breeding facilities. But what's certain is there are a lot fewer today than there were a month ago.

Greg Graziani, a police officer who owns a reptile breeding facility, is one of several licensed python hunters who stalk the snakes in the Everglades. In four days of snake hunting, he found two dead snakes, two live ones, and one snake on the verge of death.

"Vultures had pecked through 12 inches by 4 inches down the back of this animal's body," he said. "I thought it was dead and we reached down to pick it up and it was very much alive."

In cold weather, Graziani said, pythons go into a catatonic state, and if they don't make it to a safe place to ride out the weather, freeze to death. "We're finding the smaller pythons are handling it better than the large ones — the smaller ones can get into different cracks and crevices to maintain the temperatures they need."

Joe Wasilewski, of Homestead, a wildlife biologist who hunts pythons in the Everglades, said that on a single day in late January he found seven live snakes and seven dead ones.

"You don't see dead ones like that for no reason," he said. "And they were laid out like they were caught by the onslaught of the cold, the way the carcasses were lined up."
The bit about the grant funding is just funny. The methods needs to study invasive species are dirt cheap.

However the enthusiasts are right. Most of these species cannot survive much farther north than they already range. The USGS report that says that they can was done using a rather poor methodology that we can expect from the author (My adviser went to grad school with him. He was not all that bright then, he is not all that bright now). He only looked at average temp, when it is the extreme values that control whether a reptile can live in an area. Additionally his temp data was not very fine resolution...
GALE Force Biological Agent/
BOTM/Great Dolphin Conspiracy/
Entomology and Evolutionary Biology Subdirector:SD.net Dept. of Biological Sciences


There is Grandeur in the View of Life; it fills me with a Deep Wonder, and Intense Cynicism.

Factio republicanum delenda est
User avatar
GrandMasterTerwynn
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 6787
Joined: 2002-07-29 06:14pm
Location: Somewhere on Earth.

Re: Cold Snap Slaughters FL Invasives.

Post by GrandMasterTerwynn »

Unfortunately, the cold snap has proven to be a double-edged sword. Aside from the invasive species, the cold has also wreaked havoc on manatees, sea turtles, and American crocodiles.
User avatar
Alyrium Denryle
Minister of Sin
Posts: 22224
Joined: 2002-07-11 08:34pm
Location: The Deep Desert
Contact:

Re: Cold Snap Slaughters FL Invasives.

Post by Alyrium Denryle »

GrandMasterTerwynn wrote:Unfortunately, the cold snap has proven to be a double-edged sword. Aside from the invasive species, the cold has also wreaked havoc on manatees, sea turtles, and American crocodiles.

Unfortunately yes, though the american crocs are somewhat protected. Most of them in the state live in warmed Nuke plant effluent.
GALE Force Biological Agent/
BOTM/Great Dolphin Conspiracy/
Entomology and Evolutionary Biology Subdirector:SD.net Dept. of Biological Sciences


There is Grandeur in the View of Life; it fills me with a Deep Wonder, and Intense Cynicism.

Factio republicanum delenda est
User avatar
ArmorPierce
Rabid Monkey
Posts: 5904
Joined: 2002-07-04 09:54pm
Location: Born and raised in Brooklyn, unfornately presently in Jersey

Re: Cold Snap Slaughters FL Invasives.

Post by ArmorPierce »

Although reports so far say the cold has not eliminated any of them, it has sharply reduced their numbers, which some say may indicate South Florida is not as welcoming to invaders as originally thought.
Anyone see something wrong with this statement?
Brotherhood of the Monkey @( !.! )@
To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift. ~Steve Prefontaine
Aoccdrnig to rscheearch at an Elingsh uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht frist and lsat ltteer are in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae we do not raed ervey lteter by it slef but the wrod as a wlohe.
User avatar
Alyrium Denryle
Minister of Sin
Posts: 22224
Joined: 2002-07-11 08:34pm
Location: The Deep Desert
Contact:

Re: Cold Snap Slaughters FL Invasives.

Post by Alyrium Denryle »

ArmorPierce wrote:
Although reports so far say the cold has not eliminated any of them, it has sharply reduced their numbers, which some say may indicate South Florida is not as welcoming to invaders as originally thought.
Anyone see something wrong with this statement?
Even the freeze has not killed them all, which means that S. Florida is livable habitat for all of them. Still, with longer bouts of or more frequent cold...
GALE Force Biological Agent/
BOTM/Great Dolphin Conspiracy/
Entomology and Evolutionary Biology Subdirector:SD.net Dept. of Biological Sciences


There is Grandeur in the View of Life; it fills me with a Deep Wonder, and Intense Cynicism.

Factio republicanum delenda est
User avatar
Count Chocula
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1821
Joined: 2008-08-19 01:34pm
Location: You've asked me for my sacrifice, and I am winter born

Re: Cold Snap Slaughters FL Invasives.

Post by Count Chocula »

I personally have no problem with this...it's Mama Nature's way of getting rid of the "pet" iguanas, pythons et al that dipshit humans had and then didn't have the stones to kill when they got tired of them.

Trust me, Florida has plenty of native nasties, and while the manatees, gators et al may have a larger dieoff in a cold snap, they have the population base to recover. Pythons and iguanas (which have given dogs in South Florida botulism) hopefully don't, and good riddance.
Image
The only people who were safe were the legion; after one of their AT-ATs got painted dayglo pink with scarlet go faster stripes, they identified the perpetrators and exacted revenge. - Eleventh Century Remnant

Lord Monckton is my heeerrooo

"Yeah, well, fuck them. I never said I liked the Moros." - Shroom Man 777
User avatar
Alyrium Denryle
Minister of Sin
Posts: 22224
Joined: 2002-07-11 08:34pm
Location: The Deep Desert
Contact:

Re: Cold Snap Slaughters FL Invasives.

Post by Alyrium Denryle »

Count Chocula wrote:I personally have no problem with this...it's Mama Nature's way of getting rid of the "pet" iguanas, pythons et al that dipshit humans had and then didn't have the stones to kill when they got tired of them.

Trust me, Florida has plenty of native nasties, and while the manatees, gators et al may have a larger dieoff in a cold snap, they have the population base to recover. Pythons and iguanas (which have given dogs in South Florida botulism) hopefully don't, and good riddance.

Unfortunately, they have stronger population bases than things like manatees. Have you ever gone to a park in S. Florida? Iguana, Knight Anole, and Basilisk population densities are thick. They are more numerous than your native lizards combined.
GALE Force Biological Agent/
BOTM/Great Dolphin Conspiracy/
Entomology and Evolutionary Biology Subdirector:SD.net Dept. of Biological Sciences


There is Grandeur in the View of Life; it fills me with a Deep Wonder, and Intense Cynicism.

Factio republicanum delenda est
User avatar
Commander 598
Jedi Knight
Posts: 767
Joined: 2006-06-07 08:16pm
Location: Northern Louisiana Swamp
Contact:

Re: Cold Snap Slaughters FL Invasives.

Post by Commander 598 »

I don't think that the Gulf Coast receives freezing or even near freezing temperatures regularly so I'm going to file this under irrelevant. I highly doubt these animals lack hibernation insincts so I think the problem would be that this "cold snap" was quite sudden and a lot of them were caught out in the open with little warning.
User avatar
Alyrium Denryle
Minister of Sin
Posts: 22224
Joined: 2002-07-11 08:34pm
Location: The Deep Desert
Contact:

Re: Cold Snap Slaughters FL Invasives.

Post by Alyrium Denryle »

Commander 598 wrote:I don't think that the Gulf Coast receives freezing or even near freezing temperatures regularly so I'm going to file this under irrelevant. I highly doubt these animals lack hibernation insincts so I think the problem would be that this "cold snap" was quite sudden and a lot of them were caught out in the open with little warning.
Most of them come from tropical climates. Iguanas, burmese pythons, cane toads and much of the rest of florida's non-native zoo very seldomly if ever experience freezing temperatures in their native range. They can go torpid for periods of poor conditions, but that does not protect the enzymes that keep their metabolism afloat from shutting down and killing them if the temperatures drop. Most of these species have not gotten past southern florida for protracted periods for a reason. The rest of the state experiences at least periodic cold snaps with a much higher frequency than the southern part of the state does, thus excluding many of the species that get released farther south.

Knight Anoles for example, periodically get as far north as the Tampa Bay area, but because that area has periodic frosts, their populations get wiped out at regular intervals.
Last edited by Alyrium Denryle on 2010-02-12 08:37pm, edited 1 time in total.
GALE Force Biological Agent/
BOTM/Great Dolphin Conspiracy/
Entomology and Evolutionary Biology Subdirector:SD.net Dept. of Biological Sciences


There is Grandeur in the View of Life; it fills me with a Deep Wonder, and Intense Cynicism.

Factio republicanum delenda est
User avatar
Vehrec
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2204
Joined: 2006-04-22 12:29pm
Location: The Ohio State University
Contact:

Re: Cold Snap Slaughters FL Invasives.

Post by Vehrec »

Commander 598 wrote:I don't think that the Gulf Coast receives freezing or even near freezing temperatures regularly so I'm going to file this under irrelevant. I highly doubt these animals lack hibernation insincts so I think the problem would be that this "cold snap" was quite sudden and a lot of them were caught out in the open with little warning.
They are tropical or sub-tropical lizards and snakes, I don't think hibernating is something that they do as frequently as once in a generation.
ImageCommander of the MFS Darwinian Selection Method (sexual)
User avatar
Alyrium Denryle
Minister of Sin
Posts: 22224
Joined: 2002-07-11 08:34pm
Location: The Deep Desert
Contact:

Re: Cold Snap Slaughters FL Invasives.

Post by Alyrium Denryle »

Vehrec wrote:
Commander 598 wrote:I don't think that the Gulf Coast receives freezing or even near freezing temperatures regularly so I'm going to file this under irrelevant. I highly doubt these animals lack hibernation insincts so I think the problem would be that this "cold snap" was quite sudden and a lot of them were caught out in the open with little warning.
They are tropical or sub-tropical lizards and snakes, I don't think hibernating is something that they do as frequently as once in a generation.
Not even that. Burms get into Northern India at a latitude just north of Jacksonville, around Punjab. That area's average January temperature is a balmy 13 C, though at night sometimes drops to freezing. It is the northern extent of the Python's range, and in fact probably acts as a population sink.

Little ones can get into crevices or leaf litter that provides some insulation, and big ones can survive limited exposure through therma inertia (they are just so damn big that it takes a while for their temperature to drop) but prolonged exposure (more than a couple hours) will kill them very reliably.
GALE Force Biological Agent/
BOTM/Great Dolphin Conspiracy/
Entomology and Evolutionary Biology Subdirector:SD.net Dept. of Biological Sciences


There is Grandeur in the View of Life; it fills me with a Deep Wonder, and Intense Cynicism.

Factio republicanum delenda est
Post Reply