SDN World 3 Commentary Thread II

[Siege]

As it happens I am way ahead of you and do in fact have six active brigades of elite Fida'iyun under arms; each of these Hashshashin death commando brigades is worth three times their number in terms of expenditure. It's not 10-to-1 yet, but close enough for my tastes .

(And yeah, I cleared it with the mods and everything. What can I say, I like my Herbert too!)

[loomer]

If we're removing infantry weapon research, does anyone mind if I convert all my prior investment in it to Army Tech, seeing as I've wasted nearly a hundred IBPs on what now seems like something with a complete and utter lack of return, all thanks to a damn rules change? The total combined would be up at 217.

[Steve]

You were at Army Tech 3? If you invested in army techs, then you may consider yourself at 4 on 1 January 1927.

[Master_Baerne]

By which time I expect you to field the Fedaykin....

I shall soon construct the Sardaukar division - and this time, we will not neglect the training.

You gentlemen can keep your Herbert, and I'll see if I can't seing a few brigades of Space Marines. This will, of course, require at least Army Tech 17, but it's a goal.

[loomer]

Army Tech Two, been working up to AT3 since the beginning, but thanks. AT3'll let me free up some budget for more immediate wartime stuff.

[Steve]

Then you'll be at 3 on 1 January 1927 and if you invest 200 IBPs over the following eight quarters you can be to AT4 on 1 January 1929.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Pfft. I shall raise an army of Adeptus Astartes. Ultramarines maybe?

By which time I expect you to field the Fedaykin....

I shall soon construct the Sardaukar division - and this time, we will not neglect the training.

You gentlemen can keep your Herbert, and I'll see if I can't seing a few brigades of Space Marines. This will, of course, require at least Army Tech 17, but it's a goal.

As the Basilleus of the Imperium Romanum, I find your claim pretensious and unRoman. Away with you, barbaros!

[Thanas]

^Fin, your build queue...you invested a total of 80 points per year for 20 IBPs...as did I, however to gain 20 IBPs one apparently needs 80 IBPs per quarter. So this means you and I both only get a +5 bonus.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

^Fin, your build queue...you invested a total of 80 points per year for 20 IBPs...as did I, however to gain 20 IBPs one apparently needs 80 IBPs per quarter. So this means you and I both only get a +5 bonus.

Actually, one must sum up all the investments.

Namely:

General Improvement: 20 points
Infrastructural Improvement: 20 points
Economic Improvement: 20 points
Industrial Improvement: 20 points

So that totals up to 80 points per quarter. Noting that I am also Inf+E+Ind = 15.

[Thanas]

Oh, I thought you were also improving your economy or infrastructure. Sorry.

[Steve]

Uh, Fin, if you're already Econ and Infra 5, there's no actual reason to improve Economy and Infra.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Uh, Fin, if you're already Econ and Infra 5, there's no actual reason to improve Economy and Infra.

Bah. If you all insist I'll lump it together.

[Steve]

Uh, Fin, if you're already Econ and Infra 5, there's no actual reason to improve Economy and Infra.

Bah. If you all insist I'll lump it together.

What are you trying to do with the improvements? Just improve IBPs?

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Uh, Fin, if you're already Econ and Infra 5, there's no actual reason to improve Economy and Infra.

Bah. If you all insist I'll lump it together.

What are you trying to do with the improvements? Just improve IBPs?

Being realistic. Wholistically speaking, one cannot improve one portion of the economy, while forsaking the other. So improved industry implies improved infrastructure to absorb the increase in capacity. But that means more money and thus the economy must churn out more money for such investments.

[Steve]

True. OTOH, consider that a year's worth of industrial investment brings back a return of only one quarter overall what one spent each quarter. Spend 80 IBPs for four quarters, get 20 IBPs overall at the end of them. Plausibly speaking, those 80 IBPs (actually 320 IBPs in overall count) would include the infrastructure and investment/economic improvements that are necessary to support the 20 new IBPs of capacity.

[Siege]

The current rules concerning industrial and economic improvement are utterly asinine. I have at this point in time pumped 352 IBPs into improving my economy, only now to find out that even though I'll have reached the necessary 400 IBPs to boost my economy from 3 to 4 by year's end there's suddenly an inexplicable "three year wait time" for such a thing. This means that in order to get my measly +5% peacetime I have to wait another full game year. And the same is true for infrastructure too!

Yeah, thanks a lot for telling me that only now guys, after I just spent the better part of two years spending 200 IBPs a year on both economy and infrastructure. Thanks to that ridiculous ad-hoc decision I've just spent 50 points a quarter per upgrade where I should've been spending 17, i.e. 32 IBPs misspent each quarter. Times two, so 64 points a quarter that could've been spent on other things. That's two battle cruisers, twelve armoured brigades, or literally THOUSANDS of aircraft I could've built whilst still upgrading my infrastructure and economy at the side, and levelling them both up at exactly the same moment.

Who the hell thought it was a good idea to just impose an arbitrary 3 year wait time for such improvements without even bothering to see if maybe that would throw a spanner in people's long-term planning?

[MKSheppard]

*hums the theme song for the Shroomato*

[Steve]

The current rules concerning industrial and economic improvement are utterly asinine. I have at this point in time pumped 352 IBPs into improving my economy, only now to find out that even though I'll have reached the necessary 400 IBPs to boost my economy from 3 to 4 by year's end there's suddenly an inexplicable "three year wait time" for such a thing. This means that in order to get my measly +5% peacetime I have to wait another full game year. And the same is true for infrastructure too!

Yeah, thanks a lot for telling me that only now guys, after I just spent the better part of two years spending 200 IBPs a year on both economy and infrastructure. Thanks to that ridiculous ad-hoc decision I've just spent 50 points a quarter per upgrade where I should've been spending 17, i.e. 32 IBPs misspent each quarter. Times two, so 64 points a quarter that could've been spent on other things. That's two battle cruisers, twelve armoured brigades, or literally THOUSANDS of aircraft I could've built whilst still upgrading my infrastructure and economy at the side, and levelling them both up at exactly the same moment.

Who the hell thought it was a good idea to just impose an arbitrary 3 year wait time for such improvements without even bothering to see if maybe that would throw a spanner in people's long-term planning?

Fine. In your case and in all cases like your's, I'll let you make the boost early. But as of that boost the rules take effect, because otherwise it's a vast benefit to the players with the most IBPs to spend.

[Raesene]

The current rules concerning industrial and economic improvement are utterly asinine. I have at this point in time pumped 352 IBPs into improving my economy, only now to find out that even though I'll have reached the necessary 400 IBPs to boost my economy from 3 to 4 by year's end there's suddenly an inexplicable "three year wait time" for such a thing. This means that in order to get my measly +5% peacetime I have to wait another full game year. And the same is true for infrastructure too!

Yeah, thanks a lot for telling me that only now guys, after I just spent the better part of two years spending 200 IBPs a year on both economy and infrastructure. Thanks to that ridiculous ad-hoc decision I've just spent 50 points a quarter per upgrade where I should've been spending 17, i.e. 32 IBPs misspent each quarter. Times two, so 64 points a quarter that could've been spent on other things. That's two battle cruisers, twelve armoured brigades, or literally THOUSANDS of aircraft I could've built whilst still upgrading my infrastructure and economy at the side, and levelling them both up at exactly the same moment.

Who the hell thought it was a good idea to just impose an arbitrary 3 year wait time for such improvements without even bothering to see if maybe that would throw a spanner in people's long-term planning?

Fine. In your case and in all cases like your's, I'll let you make the boost early. But as of that boost the rules take effect, because otherwise it's a vast benefit to the players with the most IBPs to spend.

So my 20 pts/ quarter to inprove Econonomy, Infrastructure and reseach to improve Army and Air tech were points for nothing as all scores increase after three years anyway ? I must have missed a revised rules post in this 50-page thread.

[Steve]

No, scores do not automatically go up after three years. However, if a player invested massive amounts of IBPs into it before we decided on A) IBP totals and B) minimum time to upgrade, I will permit them to apply their total to the required one and make the upgrade before the three year minimum once.

The formula for improving industry, economy, and infrastructure has already been added to the rules page on the wiki.

[Thanas]

My apologies for not writing a new storypost, my laptop keyboard got destroyed on monday by me dumping half a gallon of fruit juice on it.

I shall attempt to get a new post up this evening using a replacement.

[Steve]

That sounds like an interesting story.

[Thanas]

Turns out that the superstable bottle holder was not stable enough to withstand the impact of a 4kg book?

[Steve]

I see.

[Steve]

I'm going to go with Thanas' suggestion; everyone has three research slots period, regardless of Economy score. Enjoy.