Gattaca RAR!

[adam_grif]

The guy admitted himself you could conceive naturally a thousand times and not get this result so you think that they managed it with a measly four fertilized eggs?

They have four viable ones, they did not specify that she gave four eggs. They say that after screening they're left with two healthy boys and two healthy girls. This implies that screening has taken place, and that a number of fertilized eggs has been reduced from the original number.

As for the figure of "a thousand times", he might have been exaggerating (most likely), or they're using some kind of unknown technique to duplicate the eggs into a crop of a thousand embryos (if we take the statement at face value).

And what do you think he meant about taking the liberty to "eradicate prejudicial conditions"?

Weeding out the embryos with them? This isn't rocket science.

You think he did this as well as let them specify gender, skin color, hair color and intelligence purely through weeding out fertilized embryos? Jesus you are dense.

Yes. Do you think that his statement "the child is still you, simply the best of you" was implying genetic engineering? If it is, then the only genetic engineering they're doing is destroying negative traits.

[adam_grif]

BTW, adam_grif, I found this fascinating piece from the original script that was unfilmed, but clearly shows the intent of the writers. I guess the filmmakers thought the audience would be smart enough to pick up on the genetic engineering thing without it but for the mentally retarded here it is.

Fine.

[The Kernel]

Yes. Do you think that his statement "the child is still you, simply the best of you" was implying genetic engineering? If it is, then the only genetic engineering they're doing is destroying negative traits.

Clearly you are an idiot then if you think that they honestly could extract and fertilize enough viable embryos to do the kind of culling that would be required to specify gender, hair color, complexion, eye color, lack of myopia, obesity, depression, alcoholism, high intelligence and whatever else that they did but the geneticist didn't bother to mention in an offhand statement. This is just common sense.

And destroying negative traits IS genetic engineering dumbass. Why are you so tied to the "best of you" statement? It was clearly meant to assure them that this baby was engineered from their own genetics as a base not randomly generated for a pile of success stories.

[Shroom Man 777]

Oh for fuck's sake did you actually WATCH the movie? God children were NOT allowed into the upper echelons of society like that, they were strictly low class people. Furthermore, it doesn't fit at ALL with the tone and message of what the movie was trying to say.

Uma Thurman WAS a god child and she was pretty much of high rank, playing a key role in the space programme, though her imperfect status made her physically unqualified to be an astronaut.

The tone and message of the movie WAS about how even in a dystopic eugenics-happy world, the unmodified STILL had a chance BECAUSE despite their inherent physical attributes their unmodified nature still left things to "chance" and sometimes it is in these not-so-tangible attributes that lead some - like twelve-toed pianist, and Vincent, and Uma Thurman - to greatness inspite/despite their nature as untermenschen.

I guess twelve-toe's exact genetic nature wasn't spelled out. Maybe it's one of those subjective things left for the viewer to interpret?

[The Kernel]

Uma Thurman WAS a god child and she was pretty much of high rank, playing a key role in the space programme, though her imperfect status made her physically unqualified to be an astronaut.

She was NOT a God child...am I the only one that actually WATCHED this film? She just wasn't perfect enough because of her "unacceptable risk of heart failure".

Did you notice how she was fucking SHOCKED when she heard Jerome/Vincent was an Invalid?

The tone and message of the movie WAS about how even in a dystopic eugenics-happy world, the unmodified STILL had a chance BECAUSE despite their inherent physical attributes their unmodified nature still left things to "chance" and sometimes it is in these not-so-tangible attributes that lead some - like twelve-toed pianist, and Vincent, and Uma Thurman - to greatness inspite/despite their nature as untermenschen.

As I already said, this is a misconception on your part. Vincent was the only one who falls into this category.

[Shroom Man 777]

She was NOT a God child...am I the only one that actually WATCHED this film? She just wasn't perfect enough because of her "unacceptable risk of heart failure".

Goddamn. I thought she had an unacceptable risk of heart failure BECAUSE she was an Invalid.

Did you notice how she was fucking SHOCKED when she heard Jerome/Vincent was an Invalid?

Goddamn. I thought that had more to do with his being, you know, IN the astronaut program as a eugenically-perfected ubermensch specimen. I thought that it was because he managed to sneak into that specific program exclusive to Valids, which imperfect people like Uma Thurman weren't allowed into. I thought that was why she was so fucking surprised, that an Invalid had made it to that point whereas other people - like her - couldn't.

As I already said, this is a misconception on your part. Vincent was the only one who falls into this category.

Damn. But it was never stateds! Man. Bah!

I loved the movie though. Do my misinterpretations now ruin the film for me?

[Guardsman Bass]

I can't seem to find the final script of the movie (the one you find easily on IMDB and Script-O-Rama is probably the original, since it mentions that they're going to an asteroid, whereas the movie mentions they're going to Titan).

In any case, it's definitely worth reading the whole original geneticist and Vincent's parents sequence. There's a lot of interesting subtext, like how the geneticist winks and tells them it's already done when the parents ask in a roundabout way if the kid will be heterosexual.

[Mr. Coffee]

For fuck's sake... Here's the scene you're talking about here. Watch it and it's pretty damned clear that they are talking about genetic engineering.

[The Kernel]

Goddamn. I thought she had an unacceptable risk of heart failure BECAUSE she was an Invalid.

Not at all. Invalids wouldn't be allowed a job even as a desk clerk let alone a potential astronaut.

Engineering doesn't mean that they are always perfect, the director at Gattaca said as much when he said that even among the general population of VALIDS they had an extremely high selection criteria at Gattaca.

=
Goddamn. I thought that had more to do with his being, you know, IN the astronaut program as a eugenically-perfected ubermensch specimen. I thought that it was because he managed to sneak into that specific program exclusive to Valids, which imperfect people like Uma Thurman weren't allowed into. I thought that was why she was so fucking surprised, that an Invalid had made it to that point whereas other people - like her - couldn't.

She was in the same program he was, she just knew that she'd never go up because she didn't fit into the extremely narrow band of performance among the Gattaca people.

Damn. But it was never stateds! Man. Bah!

Dude, yes it was. On multiple occasions throughout the film that detectives expressed disbelief that an INVALID could possibly get into Gattaca at all.

Furthermore remember the scene at the beginning where Vincent couldn't find a job AT ALL (let alone at Gattaca) that was anything but being a menial worker?

[Junghalli]

Question 1: Given the society in the movie, would you have a genetically enhanced baby?

Yes. Given that being enhanced is both almost certainly objectively better and the society descriminates against non-enhanced people I'd say this is a no-brainer.

Question 2: Would you pay extra for your baby to have superior skills in mathematics? Music? Olympic underwater basket-weaving? If so, what skills, and how much would you pay? Remember, other people have this option too, and who knows how deep their pockets are compared to yours.

I'd probably focus on giving them the best possible general health and intelligence.

Question 3: Rewind! It is the beginning of the genetically engineered baby craze. People are still having natural babies, but the technology is available to have a gene-modded baby. Assume that the procedure is completely safe and that there are no side-effects. Would you still tweak your child? And would you pay extra for more tweaks?

Yes. It's pretty likely that being enhanced is objectively better (you're healthier, stronger, smarter), so why not? The solution to there being unjust social prejudice against unenhanced people is not to stop people from being enhanced. It's to attack the actual problem.

Edit: not to mention that me not getting my child enhanced will almost certainly do nothing to change the final outcome, and nobody else has my foreknowledge of how things will turn out.

[Formless]

Not to be a wet blanket, but wouldn't this thread be better off in the SF forum?

Also, yeah I would probably get my children some kinds of enhancements. Assuming I can afford them, of course.

[Stofsk]

It's more a SLAM thread IMO.

As for the OP in question.

1. Yes. To not would disadvantage the child to a life of menial employment.

2. 'Would I pay extra?' Sure. It depends on how much money I and my hypothetical partner have, and how many options there are.

3. Yes, depending on how much it costs vs perceived safety. (it's assumed the procedure is completely safe and I'm willing to trust it for the sake of the hypothetical, but in real life I'd want to be damn sure its safe)

[Shroom Man 777]

Dude, yes it was. On multiple occasions throughout the film that detectives expressed disbelief that an INVALID could possibly get into Gattaca at all.

Furthermore remember the scene at the beginning where Vincent couldn't find a job AT ALL (let alone at Gattaca) that was anything but being a menial worker?

Ugh, I'm a fucking idiot - but that comes as no surprise, I'm sure.

But, yeah, I was going on about how it wasn't explicitly stated as to whether or not twelve-toe pianist guy was a Valid or not. I thought he was a metaphor of how god children, still subject to chance (rather than specific genetic engineering), could still produce a miraculous thing of beauty that astounds people and stuff. Obviously I am wrong. Man, and to think I frequently cite that movie as one of my favorite artsy-fartsy movies.

For shame, Shroomy.