Ubisoft PC DRM goes crazy mental

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thegreatpl
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Re: Ubisoft PC DRM goes crazy mental

Post by thegreatpl »

i could understand if the system required something like this but only required an internet connection every so often, such as every hour or so. but constant? that is over the top. i think they should try and make it so if you dont have an internet connection, some content is restricted, but the game is still playable.

then again, im not really a gamer. of course, even though i am not, i can see the death knell it signals.
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Re: Ubisoft PC DRM goes crazy mental

Post by Minischoles »

Either way PC gamers are screwed. There are a few ways this ends

1) No-one buys the game because of the aggressive DRM, they don't see the point in making effort on a PC game anymore, they gradually phase it out (MW2 is doing the same)

2) People pirate it like crazy, justifying their methods of intense DRM, screaming about how pirates are costing them billions

3) People actually buy it, and they keep the DRM because they know the vast majority of people don't care how the company treats them. All the games keep the DRM, justified by the high sales apparently 'beating pirates'.
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Re: Ubisoft PC DRM goes crazy mental

Post by Oskuro »

And legitimate users have to resort to cracking the system to be able to enjoy the product they payed for. Just like there are cracked versions of Steam games floating around.

I guess there's a lot of tolerance to this due to consoles remaining largerly unaffected by this trend, but with the push to hinder resales (Day one DLCs being the tip of the iceberg here), I wonder if similar woes will hit the console market eventually (Not to mention that console games can be pirated too).
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Re: Ubisoft PC DRM goes crazy mental

Post by Stark »

Day-one DLC doesn't hinder resale at all; later owners can just buy it anyway. It's code-locked DLC that kills the secondary market; more and more stuff is being made single user (like Army of Tutu's horde mode) which means later owners have less.
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Re: Ubisoft PC DRM goes crazy mental

Post by Oskuro »

Isn't day one DLC code locked? Like the titties patch in The Saboteur, once used, it's gone, or can you just resell the code itself? In any case, code-locked DLCs is what I meant (sorry for the mixup). I just have the feeling it is the first of many measures to try and smother resales. Although I wouldn't put it past them to simply have console games require online activation too. Honestly, I thought some of them did that already.
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Re: Ubisoft PC DRM goes crazy mental

Post by Oskuro »

Looks like Shamus Young has a new article up regarding the DRM mess (yeah, I know, I suck copious amounts of this guy's cock), specifically brought forth by the Ubisoft issue, so here it is:
At the start of the year, I thought that stupid, self-defeating DRM was in decline. EA had changed their tune and dumped the online activation in favor of more conventional forms of copy prevention. Since they were one of the big leaders into this madness, I thought they were leading us back out of it. Sadly, It looks like everyone else has decided that the problem with DRM systems of the last couple of years is that they weren't restrictive enough.

Let's look at what everyone is up to these days:

EA

When Spore came out it was more famous for its obnoxious DRM than for its gameplay. This led their most "protected" game to end up being one of the most pirated, ever. Fan reaction to the DRM in the PC version of Mass Effect wasn't nearly as bad, but it was still negative. Maybe it was this backlash that changed their policy. Maybe they ran the numbers and realized what a waste of money it was. Maybe they finally grasped the super-simple concept that what they were trying to do is impossible. But whatever the reason, I was delighted to hear that they were declaring a cease-fire in their war on their own customers. (Okay, it was a war on pirates, but the only people who were hurt were customers.)

While they've backed off of full online registration, EA is sort of working on a sneaky half-measure of the same idea. They give away free DLC on day one, but of course you have to register the game to get it. What happens next is a bit uncertain. I've gotten multiple reports from people saying that if you don't sign in to EA when you launch the game, your DLC content is missing. Others have reported that you can't load a save that contains DLC items if you don't log in to EA. I just tried it with my copy of Mass Effect 2 (a digital purchase through Impulse) and didn't have any problems using my DLC content. This system is obviously still in flux, and it probably depends on what game, and where you got it.

It's certainly making the whole thing a lot more complicated than it needs to be.

Valve

It has been said before: Steam is online activation. Although in return for activating your game, Valve offers unlimited installs, download anywhere, auto backup, auto patching, cloud savegames, and community-rich service. Valve is making us register games, but they try to sweeten the deal with a lot of perks.

I don't blame people who refuse to deal with Steam. I also don't have a problem with people who love the platform. It's compromise, but at least they're trying to make the deal enticing.

2K Games

2K Games ran the same playbook for BioShock and BioShock 2, which goes something like this:

2K: SecuROM will give every gamer a kick in the balls before the game will launch.

Gamers: This is an outrage! BOYCOTT!

2K: Oh. We're very sorry we upset people. We had no idea customers felt so strongly about being kicked in the balls. Moreover, we didn't mean to make female gamers feel excluded. So SecuROM will give you a punch in the gut instead.

Gamers: Wow! They listened to us! This must be what respect feels like! Let's pre-order the game right now!

In both cases they offered a horrible, incomprehensible mess, and then let the community simmer for a while. Then they rolled out something that was just as big a hassle but was slightly less restrictive, and gamers came back and stood in line for their gut-punch.

You can compare their system to Steam to see just how reprehensible and insulting the 2K Games policy is. (Assuming you can make sense of it.) 2K Games is saddling us with the same restrictions as Steam (online activation) and then they put a cap on the number of activations, and in return for our cooperation they offer nothing.

Ubisoft

When it comes to idiotic, pointless, and unwelcome DRM schemes, Ubisoft has recently rocketed to the front of the pack. The system they're using for Assassin's Creed is so aggressive that even people who shrug at SecuROM are doing a double take.

Basically, the single-player game acts like an MMOG. If you lose connection, you get booted out of the game. Except unlike an MMOG, you'll lose all of your progress since your last save. Even a network hiccup can yank you out of the game. They're selling this thing as a friendly, helpful system that lets you share save file between computers, but gamers aren't falling for it. Their salesmanship is so disingenuous that it's difficult not to simply call it a an outright lie. If they really were simply employing cloud saves, then there would be no reason in the world to make it mandatory. And it should only need to connect to the server when you launch the game and again when you exit. And no matter what reason they give, there is no sense in insisting on an uninterrupted connection under pain of exit-game-without-saving. Do they think you will suddenly become a pirate? While playing?

(I'm leaving out most of the issues that have been brought up a thousand times already: People with capricious mobile connections, people behind university firewalls, people on metered connections, people without access to always-on broadband, people on the road, and everyone else who plays single-player games because playing online isn't a viable option for them. This system excludes a lot of people. It's worth noting that these are the people who would have the hardest time pirating the game.)

This system can't possibly survive the level of rage that gamers are hurling at it. I imagine at some point they'll steal from the 2K Games playbook and ratchet the system back to something still annoying and offensive, but less outrageous than what they're offering now. Many gamers, having memories no longer than a year or so, will mistake this move for "progress". Given the fury gamers have expressed, leaving this system in place is basically the same thing as not putting out a PC version at all. The only people who will buy the game will be the ones who don't know what they're getting into because the fine print on the box can't possibly paint them a full picture.

Some people suggest that the systems based around online activation aren't really there to fight piracy, but are instead intended to kill the second-hand PC game market. That sounds plausible enough, except the used PC market is pretty much dead already. Retailers no longer deal with them. So why do the systems continue to become more obtrusive, restrictive, and and complicated? Last year Ubisoft released Far Cry 2 with standard online activation. (It sickens me that we can now refer to this dreadful business as "standard".) Surely that killed any resale or rental potential of the title. So why this difficult new system? The only conclusion I can draw is that the people helming Ubisoft really are ignorant enough to think that ramping up the DRM will diminish the number of pirates. That's a pretty horrifying thought. It would mean that there are people running an entertainment software company that understand nothing about piracy, DRM, or computer software in general.

For years I've been looking at DRM and thinking we've finally hit rock bottom. And then the publishers invent new ways to drag things down even further. But I really am at a loss this time. What could possibly be next? How much worse can they make things and still claim to be offering a product? We're pretty close to them just charging the user $60 for a blank disk and a rude note calling them a pirate.

Where will they go from here?
So the industry is claiming that PC gaming is dead, while holding the pillow over its struggling face. :?

If there's something that really saddens me about this whole mess, is how many console gamers gloat about this not touching them, and yet they fail to realize this is touching them in the form of mass consumer oriented crappy games (another manifestation of the big sales at all costs attitude of the industry that leads to all this DRM nonsense). And I bet they'll be hit with similar DRM measures soon enough (You know, beyond the actual console gaming draconian DRM measure known as the console itself).
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Re: Ubisoft PC DRM goes crazy mental

Post by aieeegrunt »

LordOskuro wrote:Isn't day one DLC code locked? Like the titties patch in The Saboteur, once used, it's gone, or can you just resell the code itself? In any case, code-locked DLCs is what I meant (sorry for the mixup). I just have the feeling it is the first of many measures to try and smother resales. Although I wouldn't put it past them to simply have console games require online activation too. Honestly, I thought some of them did that already.
Epic Games tried us on with a map pack for Gears of War 2; you got 5 extra maps if you preordered. People who didn't preorder were understandably pissed. People like me, who preordered but then had their xbox brick and thus got locked out of the content because of the way DRM works on xbox were even more angry.

This was eventually patched out and the maps are free for all now, but that's only because Epic is, well, Epic.
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Re: Ubisoft PC DRM goes crazy mental

Post by starfury »

If there's something that really saddens me about this whole mess, is how many console gamers gloat about this not touching them, and yet they fail to realize this is touching them in the form of mass consumer oriented crappy games (another manifestation of the big sales at all costs attitude of the industry that leads to all this DRM nonsense). And I bet they'll be hit with similar DRM measures soon enough (You know, beyond the actual console gaming draconian DRM measure known as the console itself).
Well considering that most of Ubisoft's games for the PC are Console ports, most people would take the console version, that Draconian measure of the "console" means that they all start on a level playing instead of playing the Upgrade treadmill on the PC which is why the daily PC NPD charts are dominated by versions of the sims and WOW, which have modest requirements and also broad appeal, since as Epic and most developers are concerned the people who cared enough about these kinds of games are more likely to pirate in the first place, while the dumb casuals are just going to bother.

I prefers sean Malstorm instead, crazy Texas blogger who seems to gloat at the plight of current "hardcore" gamers.

Personal Blog, you may hate him but I found him even more worthwhile to listen then Shamus Young
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Re: Ubisoft PC DRM goes crazy mental

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LordOskuro wrote:So the industry is claiming that PC gaming is dead, while holding the pillow over its struggling face. :?
How can it be dead? I can't play Cave Story or Iji on my PS3! Well, I suppose I could, but I'm not that technically savvy.
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Re: Ubisoft PC DRM goes crazy mental

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Acidburns wrote:So after cracking it (and it will be I'm sure) the pirates will be offering a superior version to the purchasable one. What kind of fucking madness is this? There must be some brainless people out there to decide to inconvenience the people who are actually purchasing the game to this level. What about all the people who might want to play a game on a train without 3G access, or folk who are in the military, merchant navy, work on oil rigs or whatever?
People should have seen this coming when the much-ballyhooed merger of Hollywood and the gaming industry began to occur. You started having generic "entertainment industry" executives influencing game company policy, and naturally, they began to influence it the same way the RIAA has influenced music: by testing how much they can abuse customers without hurting their revenue stream.
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Re: Ubisoft PC DRM goes crazy mental

Post by Stark »

aieeegrunt wrote:
Epic Games tried us on with a map pack for Gears of War 2; you got 5 extra maps if you preordered. People who didn't preorder were understandably pissed. People like me, who preordered but then had their xbox brick and thus got locked out of the content because of the way DRM works on xbox were even more angry.

This was eventually patched out and the maps are free for all now, but that's only because Epic is, well, Epic.
This is an industry standard and is hardly Epic 'trying it'. Preorder rewards are generally code-locked and non-transferrable.

However the Xbox rights management is loose enough for two profiles on two boxes to use each others DLC without the owner logged in, so it's looser than steam.
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Re: Ubisoft PC DRM goes crazy mental

Post by Losonti Tokash »

LordOskuro wrote:Isn't day one DLC code locked? Like the titties patch in The Saboteur, once used, it's gone, or can you just resell the code itself? In any case, code-locked DLCs is what I meant (sorry for the mixup). I just have the feeling it is the first of many measures to try and smother resales. Although I wouldn't put it past them to simply have console games require online activation too. Honestly, I thought some of them did that already.
What Mass Effect 2 and The Saboteur do is, if you buy a new copy, a code comes in the case that you redeem for said day one dlc. If you buy a used copy, that stuff is still in the marketplace and can be purchased. The Saboteur's titty patch costs $3 so it's not really much of an obstacle, while the Cerberus Network in ME2 is 15 dollars. So far all the DLC that CN gives you access to is free, though I wouldn't say the stuff currently available is worth the purchase if you bought a used copy. Just some armor, a mission that consists of wandering around some wreckage, and a new party member who isn't fleshed out very well, though his loyalty mission gives you access to a new heavy weapon. Supposedly they're releasing a hover tank fairly soon.

Also, the map pack in Gears 2 is the same concept. If you bought a new copy (not necessarily a preorder), you get the maps for free. Otherwise they're available for purchase in the Flashback pack or the All Fronts pack, which also includes all the other Gears DLC.
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Re: Ubisoft PC DRM goes crazy mental

Post by adam_grif »

CN is free DLC. The upcoming hammerhead pack and Kasumi character will both be free. Cerberus Network is designed to hinder the preowned game market as well as piracy by forcing an additional 15 dollar sale for anybody who doesn't want the barebones game.

It won't do much to stop PC piracy because the DLC can and will get cracked in short order, but it will be an extra 15 dollar "change hands" tax for people selling second hand copies of the game.
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Re: Ubisoft PC DRM goes crazy mental

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If $15 of content is ever released. In three years when someone buys ME2 for $10, they're only going to want to pay for DLC for acheivements. :)
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Re: Ubisoft PC DRM goes crazy mental

Post by Edward Yee »

Steam really does seem like the best DRM scheme out of the quoted selection, since its system isn't (always) tied to a publisher's sometimes-idiocy, it does support an offline mode, and the "access to your games, (almost) any time"... yes. The only downside I can think of is possible account loss, which seems to apply to some of the other DRM schemes and on console would cost you your DLC anyway (right?). Heck, as long as the account is still good, the archive/backup lets you remove the "disc" problem just by burning those files to discs! (What do you think is in the Modern Warfare 2 retail disc to require Steam? ;-))

To me it seems that the best anti-piracy scheme would to make a game that word of mouth says is worth that price in the first place... Modern Warfare 2 actually sounds like the prototypical example of a game whose failings were due to this. Sure, they could probably have made it more secure in the first place, but it seems that the bad word of mouth before the release actually got more effort put into defeating its security, and nowadays its reputation's gotten to the point where I push MAG at my store more than Modern Warfare 2.
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Re: Ubisoft PC DRM goes crazy mental

Post by aieeegrunt »

Stark wrote:
aieeegrunt wrote:
Epic Games tried us on with a map pack for Gears of War 2; you got 5 extra maps if you preordered. People who didn't preorder were understandably pissed. People like me, who preordered but then had their xbox brick and thus got locked out of the content because of the way DRM works on xbox were even more angry.

This was eventually patched out and the maps are free for all now, but that's only because Epic is, well, Epic.
This is an industry standard and is hardly Epic 'trying it'. Preorder rewards are generally code-locked and non-transferrable.

However the Xbox rights management is loose enough for two profiles on two boxes to use each others DLC without the owner logged in, so it's looser than steam.
Sorry, I phrased that poorly. What I was trying to say was that it was a first for Epic, I don't recall having to pay for the company map packs for any of the Unreal Tournaments. To say nothing of all the community map packs of course.
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Re: Ubisoft PC DRM goes crazy mental

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The most 'unusual' pre-order bonuses I've seen is for Saints Row 2. There are three unlockable vehicles that you got codes for if you pre-ordered the game. However, the codes were quickly released over the net as they were not time stamped, they were not single use, and in fact it was the same damn code for all copies of the game. Even the PS3 and 360 versions shared the exact same code.

Granted, the three add on vehicles were gimmicky little things of little use.
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Re: Ubisoft PC DRM goes crazy mental

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Jade Falcon wrote:Granted, the three add on vehicles were gimmicky little things of little use.
I thought the gyrocopter was quite useful for doing the collection quests. It could fit into tighter places than a normal helicopter. The UFO wasn't exactly useful, but it was a lot of fun.
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Re: Ubisoft PC DRM goes crazy mental

Post by adam_grif »

Stark wrote:If $15 of content is ever released. In three years when someone buys ME2 for $10, they're only going to want to pay for DLC for acheivements. :)
As depressing as that is, yeah.

My gamer-score is horrifically low because I seem to be one of a dying breed who doesn't give a shit about it.
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Re: Ubisoft PC DRM goes crazy mental

Post by Stark »

I don't think you understand how achievements work. And if they released worthwhile DLC people would care enough to buy it. DLC in single--player games has a harder sell than MP.
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Re: Ubisoft PC DRM goes crazy mental

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I don't think you understand how achievements work.
What makes you say that?
And if they released worthwhile DLC people would care enough to buy it.
Of course, but what I'm saying is that it's depressing that some people really might buy DLC just to get achievements from it. IIRC the Zaeed pack got me an extra achievement when I gained his loyalty.
A scientist once gave a public lecture on astronomy. He described how the Earth orbits around the sun and how the sun, in turn, orbits around the centre of a vast collection of stars called our galaxy.

At the end of the lecture, a little old lady at the back of the room got up and said: 'What you have told us is rubbish. The world is really a flat plate supported on the back of a giant tortoise.

The scientist gave a superior smile before replying, 'What is the tortoise standing on?'

'You're very clever, young man, very clever,' said the old lady. 'But it's turtles all the way down.'
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Re: Ubisoft PC DRM goes crazy mental

Post by Stark »

Achievements are just about hours of play and number of games. If you play heaps of games you will unavoiably get piles and if you stick to two or three games you never will.

I'm not sure late secondary Market generates much DLC sales. It's possible that hype or population is a big part of selling the shit.
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Re: Ubisoft PC DRM goes crazy mental

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I know people who played the Burgerking games just to get their achievements.

:(
A scientist once gave a public lecture on astronomy. He described how the Earth orbits around the sun and how the sun, in turn, orbits around the centre of a vast collection of stars called our galaxy.

At the end of the lecture, a little old lady at the back of the room got up and said: 'What you have told us is rubbish. The world is really a flat plate supported on the back of a giant tortoise.

The scientist gave a superior smile before replying, 'What is the tortoise standing on?'

'You're very clever, young man, very clever,' said the old lady. 'But it's turtles all the way down.'
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Re: Ubisoft PC DRM goes crazy mental

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adam_grif wrote:I know people who played the Burgerking games just to get their achievements.

:(
Hell there were people on Xboxachievements.org that rented the Hannah Montana game for the achievements. :D
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