NATO airstrike kills 33 civilians

[hongi]

Jeezus.

KABUL – A NATO airstrike killed at least 33 civilians in central Afghanistan, the Cabinet said Monday, the third time a mistaken coalition strike has killed noncombatants since the start of a major offensive aimed at winning over the population.

The top NATO commander, U.S. Gen. Stanley McChrystal, apologized to the Afghan president, NATO said.

The Afghanistan Council of Ministers strongly condemned the airstrike Sunday in Uruzgan province, calling it "unjustifiable."

Initial reports indicated that NATO planes fired at a convoy of three vehicles, killing at least 33 people, including four women and a child, and injuring 12 others, it said in a statement.

It urged NATO to "closely coordinate and exercise maximum care before conducting any military operation" to avoid further civilian casualties.

NATO confirmed that its planes fired on what it believed was a group of insurgents on their way to attack a joint NATO-Afghan patrol, but later discovered that women and children were hurt. The injured were transported to medical facilities, it said in a statement.

The Afghan government and NATO have launched an investigation.

We need the Afghans on our side, and incidents like these are going to bite us in the arse.

[Knife]

So...nobody knows if it was insurgents, civilians, or both all together? True they should not call down an air strike if civilians are in and about a group of insurgents, you don't take a sledgehammer for a substitute for a fly swatter, nor should you use an air strike when you just don't know who they are.

[PkbonupePeter_Kcos8]

Well, at least technology has progressed beyond what we had in WW2, Korea, and Vietnam. Nowadays, the average stray bomb kills a few dozen at the most. Back then, they often killed hundreds.

[General Trelane (Retired)]

This isn't about stray bombs at all.

[PkbonupePeter_Kcos8]

This isn't about stray bombs at all.

What's it about then?

[Shroom Man 777]

It wasn't about an inaccurate bomb. The bomb struck the target just fine, but they just picked the WRONG target. The bomb was completely accurate, but the targeteers just picked a target that unfortunately had 33 civilians in it. Much to the detriment of the 33 civilians killed in the NATO airstrike.

This'll be pretty bad for PR. I mean, how large numbers of civilian casualties will be interpreted on the ground - where the perspectives of the people actually living there - will be a whole lot different. They've already left their own homes because NATO's attacking their city, and now this? Can't be good, man. Stuff like this just helps the enemy, but stuff like this always happens in war. Which sucks.

[PkbonupePeter_Kcos8]

The bomb struck the target just fine, but they just picked the WRONG target.

Lol. Well, that depends on how you want to use the word "stray bomb." I was a little confused there for a minute.

In any case, bad intel or operator error resulted in a bomb killing a whole lot of innocent people. My point was that modern technology made it so that the bomb only killed a few civilians as opposed to wiping out the entire village.

[gizmojumpjet]

Terrible things happen in war.

[Shroom Man 777]

The article said:
Initial reports indicated that NATO planes fired at a convoy of three vehicles, killing at least 33 people, including four women and a child, and injuring 12 others, it said in a statement.

NATO confirmed that its planes fired on what it believed was a group of insurgents on their way to attack a joint NATO-Afghan patrol, but later discovered that women and children were hurt. The injured were transported to medical facilities, it said in a statement.

So I think the accuracy of the bombs/missiles isn't the thing in question here.

[PkbonupePeter_Kcos8]

So I think the accuracy of the bombs/missiles isn't the thing in question here.

Like I said...

bad intel or operator error resulted in a bomb killing a whole lot of innocent people

It would seem that the former is the case.

Frankly, however; I've got to wonder if there actually were insurgents on the "convoy" in question, and whether at least some of the "civilians" mentioned in article weren't family members tagging along or simply insurgents who cannot be definitively identified.

As has been mentioned by several other posters, bad things happen in war. Its going to be a bitch to prove much of anything either way.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Let's not forget that armies and war bands in ancient times, like Afghanistan is still in, usually moved about with a sizeable number of camp followers, for lack of better term. The idea that relatives and civilian servants are accompanying some group of insurgents in numbers is scarcely implausible, and they would not think it necessary to provide protection for them, nor would it even be a conscious decision to expose them to risk. It's just what's done.

[Knife]

Let's not forget that armies and war bands in ancient times, like Afghanistan is still in, usually moved about with a sizeable number of camp followers, for lack of better term. The idea that relatives and civilian servants are accompanying some group of insurgents in numbers is scarcely implausible, and they would not think it necessary to provide protection for them, nor would it even be a conscious decision to expose them to risk. It's just what's done.

Indeed. I'm not making a judgment here yet since we still do not know if the target was or was not insurgents or a combination of insurgents and civilians.

[Mayabird]

Could also be human shields or some combination of camp followers and family members and human shields and insurgents and so forth. These things aren't clean.

Anyway, the article:

Afghanistan Taliban 'using human shields' - general

Taliban militants are increasingly using civilians as "human shields" as they battle against a joint Afghan-Nato offensive, an Afghan general has said.

Gen Mohiudin Ghori said his soldiers had seen Taliban fighters placing women and children on the roofs of buildings and firing from behind them.

The joint offensive in southern Helmand province has entered its fifth day.

US Marines fighting to take the Taliban haven of Marjah have had to call in air support as they come under heavy fire.

They have faced sustained machine-gun fire from fighters hiding in bunkers and in buildings including homes and mosques.

Gen Ghori, the senior commander for Afghan troops in the area, accused the Taliban of taking civilians hostage in Marjah and putting them in the line of fire.

"Especially in the south of Marjah, the enemy is fighting from compounds where soldiers can very clearly see women or children on the roof or in a second-floor or third-floor window," he is quoted by Associated Press as saying.

"They are trying to get us to fire on them and kill the civilians."

As a result, his forces were having to make the choice either not to return fire, he said, or to advance much more slowly in order to distinguish militants from civilians.

Nato has stressed that the safety of civilians in the areas targeted in the joint Nato and Afghan Operation Moshtarak is its highest priority.

Journalist Jawad Dawari, based in Lashkar Gah, told BBC Pashto that Taliban fighters remained in many residential areas of Marjah and were defending their positions with heavy weapons.

"It is difficult for the Afghan army and Nato to storm Taliban-held areas because to do so may inflict heavy civilian casualties and there are still a lot of civilians in Marjah.

"Whenever they launch an attack, the Taliban take refuge in civilians' homes."

He had spoken to many local people in Marjah, he said, and they had all said the Nato offensive had made little progress since the first day.

An Afghan military official had told reporters that the backbone of the resistance came from foreign fighters - Pakistani and Arab - and that it was feared they might resort to suicide attacks, he added.

There's a lot of fighting going on in the Marjah area - the estimation of the number of insurgents there varies between 100 and 300. They are not all hardcore Taliban by any means. The US commander there, Brig Gen Larry Nicholson, said he thought about 80% were probably less committed local fighters hired to do this, as opposed to being hardcore, ideological jihadists.

The operation has taken a long time for a number of reasons - it's a big area, 200sq km, and they are having to cope with an unexpectedly large number of these IEDs. A lot of locals are telling the soldiers where the devices are but other IEDs are having to be defused very slowly.

The most senior US general in the south, Brig Gen Ben Hodges, gave the BBC a more upbeat assessment of Marjah, saying locals were coming out to give information on insurgents now that they were confident the forces involved in Operation Moshtarak were not leaving.

He said Afghan units would be staying for at least 30 days and the Marine battalions "for several months".

Speaking to the BBC after visiting Marjah, the commander of British forces in southern Afghanistan, Maj Gen Nick Carter, said the situation was dangerous, but that progress was being made.

He told the BBC's Frank Gardner it could take up to 30 days to clear the insurgents out, depending on when they lost the will to fight.

Troops taking part in the offensive have been having to deal with large numbers of improvised bombs.

American forces have found a so-called "daisy chain" - a long bomb rigged up from mortar bombs, rocket-propelled grenades and a motorbike, our correspondent says.

And British engineers have deployed a device called a "python" - a length of explosives designed to set off mines and clear a safe path through them, he says.

Afghan army chief of staff Besmillah Khan told the AFP news agency the threat from improvised bombs meant gains were coming "slowly".

Meanwhile, to the north, British forces have discovered an insurgent cache of stolen Afghan army and police uniforms.

The find suggests the Taliban could have been planning attacks disguised as Afghan security personnel, our correspondent says.

Nato says discussions with the local population on how to bring lasting security to the area are continuing, our correspondent adds.

Gen Hodges said several hundred police had been trained and would go into central Helmand once the situation was deemed appropriate.

British and Afghan troops are reported to be advancing more swiftly in the nearby district of Nad Ali than are their US and Afghan counterparts in Marjah.

Missiles 'on target'

Gen Carter confirmed on Tuesday a missile that struck a house outside Marjah on Sunday killing 12 people, including six children, had hit its intended target.

Gen Carter said the rocket had not malfunctioned and the US system responsible for firing it was back in use. Officials say three Taliban, as well as civilians, were in the house but the Nato soldiers did not know the civilians were there.

Initial Nato reports said the missile had landed about 300m (984ft) off its intended target. Gen Carter blamed these "conflicting" reports on "the fog of war".

Speaking on Tuesday, Dawud Ahmadi - a spokesman for Helmand Governor Gulab Mangal - said that 1,240 families had been displaced and evacuated from Marjah - and all had received aid in the provincial capital, Lashkar Gah.

Operation Moshtarak, meaning "together" in the Dari language, is the biggest coalition attack since the Taliban fell in 2001.

Allied officials have reported only two coalition deaths so far - one American and one Briton killed on Saturday.

[The Spartan]

NATO Commander apologizes on Afghan TV

NATO commander makes televised apology to Afghans
By DEB RIECHMANN and HEIDI VOGT, Associated Press Writers Deb Riechmann And Heidi Vogt, Associated Press Writers Tue Feb 23, 11:15 am ET

KABUL – The commander of U.S. and NATO forces in Afghanistan went on national television Tuesday to apologize for a deadly airstrike, an extraordinary attempt to regain Afghans' trust while a mass offensive continues against the Taliban in the south.

Two U.S. Marine battalions, accompanied by Afghan troops, pushing from the north and south of the insurgent stronghold of Marjah finally linked up after more than a week, creating a direct route across the town that allows convoys to supply ammunition and reinforcements.

In a video translated into the Afghan languages of Dari and Pashto and broadcast on Afghan television, a stern Gen. Stanley McChrystal apologized for the strike in central Uruzgan province that Afghan officials say killed at least 21 people. The video was also posted on a NATO Web site.

"I pledge to strengthen our efforts to regain your trust to build a brighter future for all Afghans," McChrystal said in the video. "I have instituted a thorough investigation to prevent this from happening again."

Sunday's attack by NATO jets on a convoy of cars was the deadliest attack on civilians in six months and prompted a sharp rebuke from the Afghan government. McChrystal apologized directly to President Hamid Karzai shortly after the incident. The video is another sign of the military coalition's intense campaign to win public backing for the Marjah offensive with a strategy that involves taking all precautions possible to protect civilians.

NATO said McChrystal made a similar apology via video this past fall when U.S. pilots bombed two hijacked fuel tankers near the northern town of Kunduz. Afghan leaders estimated that 30 to 40 civilians were killed.

The civilian deaths occurred as 15,000 NATO, U.S. and Afghan soldiers were in their 10th day of fighting insurgents in the town in Helmand province. A Romanian soldier was killed Tuesday and another was wounded in a bombing in southern Afghanistan unrelated to the offensive, Romanian officials said.

At least 919 U.S. service members have died in Afghanistan since the war began in 2001, according to an Associated Press count. The figure does not include Americans based in other countries in support of the Afghan mission who did not die as a result of combat.

Although the airstrike was not related to the Marjah offensive, civilian casualties undermine NATO's goal of turning back the Taliban and restoring the Afghan people's confidence in their own government — one of the main objectives of the southern operation that hopes to rout the Taliban, set up a local government and rush in aid.

In Berlin, Richard Holbrooke, the U.S. special envoy for Afghanistan and Pakistan, said civilian casualties were "great tragedies," but stressed that Gen. McChrystal has done the utmost to avoid civilian deaths, noting especially the new guidelines restricting airstrikes. Holbrooke added that the insurgents have no qualms in using civilians as shields.

Meanwhile, a Tuesday morning explosion in Lashkar Gah, the capital of Helmand, left eight people dead and at least 16 others wounded, according to the Interior Ministry. Police chief Gen. Asadullah Sherzad said explosives in a parked motorbike were detonated by remote control in front of the traffic department.

The alliance said its planes fired on what was thought to be a group of insurgents in Uruzgan province on their way to attack NATO and Afghan forces. Interior Ministry spokesman Zemeri Bashary said the airstrike hit three minibuses of civilians, which were traveling on a major road near Uruzgan's border with Day Kundi province.

In Marjah on Tuesday, U.S. Marines from the 1st and 3rd Battalions, 6th Marines Regiment finally managed to link up after more than a week of hard marches through insurgent fire and mined poppy fields.

"This is a very important step," said Lt. Col. Brian Christmas, commander of the 3rd Battalion, explaining that NATO forces now control a continuous north-to-south route through town that hinders insurgents' ability to move freely.

Sporadic fighting continued Tuesday as strongly entrenched Taliban units appeared to have regrouped in a heavily defended stronghold to the north. But other areas were calm enough that police were able to hand out aid to residents. The provincial governor joined Afghan officers in piling bags of rice and tea onto blankets and distributing them in central Marjah.

On Monday, Adm. Mike Mullen, the chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff, told reporters at the Pentagon that the efforts against the Taliban were "messy" and "incredibly wasteful," as was war in general. "But that doesn't mean it's not worth the cost."

The incident in Uruzgan "reminds us of just how fragile and how tragic any move we can make, any move we make can ultimately be," he said.

"These are split-second decisions that commanders in combat on the ground have to make," he added.

Mullen said the troops in Marjah are making "steady, if perhaps a bit slower than anticipated, progress." He cited the prevalence of planted bombs and the care taken to avoid civilian casualties for the slow pace.

Karzai has repeatedly called on NATO to do more to protect civilians during stepped-up military operations.

In recent months, NATO has limited airstrikes and tightened rules of engagement on the battlefield to try to protect the Afghan people and win their loyalty from the Taliban.

It was the second time in nine days that NATO has apologized for killing civilians. On Feb. 14, two U.S. rockets slammed into a home outside Marjah, killing 12 people, including six children. According to NATO, at least 16 civilians have been killed so far during the offensive; human rights groups say the figure is at least 19. Though NATO is working hard to reduce civilian casualties, it has acknowledged that completely eliminating them is difficult.

Bashary said investigators had recovered 21 bodies from the Uruzgan airstrike and that two other people were missing.

The Afghan Cabinet reported a higher death toll, saying 27 civilians were killed, including four women and a child, and 12 other people were injured. The ministers urged NATO to "closely coordinate and exercise maximum care before conducting any military operation" to avoid further civilian casualties.

The toll was the highest involving civilians since last September, when U.S. pilots bombed two hijacked fuel tankers in a German-ordered airstrike near the northern town of Kunduz. Up to 142 people are believed to have died or been injured, German officials said. Afghan leaders estimated that 30 to 40 civilians were killed.

The controversy about the Uruzgan strike came as a suicide bomber detonated explosives at a community meeting Monday in eastern Afghanistan, killing 15 civilians including a prominent tribal leader widely criticized for failing to prevent Osama bin Laden's escape at Tora Bora after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks in the United States.

Haji Zaman was one of the two principal Afghan warlords who went after bin Laden after the Taliban fled Kabul in 2001. The suicide bombing occurred outside Jalalabad, the capital of Nangarhar province.

On Tuesday, a second bombing targeting a police convoy near Jalalabad left two civilians dead and two others injured, the Interior Ministry said. No police were injured in the incident.

NATO reported that one service member died Tuesday after being hit by a roadside bomb but gave no details on nationality. Romania's Defense Ministry reported that a Romanian soldier had been killed and another injured when their convoy was hit by a roadside bomb. Romania has 1,035 troops in Afghanistan as part of NATO forces.

New development, for lack of a better word.

Does anyone have any idea what effect this apology will have on the ground?

[Edward Yee]

NATO said McChrystal made a similar apology via video this past fall when U.S. pilots bombed two hijacked fuel tankers near the northern town of Kunduz. Afghan leaders estimated that 30 to 40 civilians were killed.

I remember this, and that the overall US response was part of the reason for the drama in Germany over the Kunduz incident, since it was German officers on the ground who called in the strike.