SD+SB in Middle Earth

[Cpt_Frank]

Btw as for pistols, how about the Beretta 93R?

[Patrick Ogaard]

M-14; accept no substitute. They had a version chambered for 7.62mm NATO, and they're heavy enough to deal a killing blow with the stock if it gets to hand-to-hand. Also much more rugged than any later western firearm -- And it's complete with a twenty-round magazine.

FN FAL (or SLR) is sturdier (I've used them to batter down blockaded doors, and we used to use them as hoists - held between two people - to get people over walls. Easier to maintian to and holds it's zero well.

As long as all the regular 7.62mm NATO semiautomatic rifles use the same magazines, M14 or SLR should be pretty much a personal choice, with the G3 in the mix for those who prefer it (but I'd prefer the M14, personall, which is moot since I would not be going). People with actual sniper or hunting qualifications should obviously take their rifle of choice. The major concern is that all the regular 7.62mm rifles had best be using compatible magazines to allow sharing. A rifle without compatible ammunition too often gets held by a dead rifleman. Since the scenario specifies that military types may take along an automatic support weapon in addition to the rifle/shotgun/SMG of their choice, there's no point in military types really packing an ordinary battle rifle or assault rifle.

Those who prefer 5.56mm assault rifles should also pretty much choose the gun of their choice, with an eye to reliability and ease of repair and the ironclad requirement of mutually interchangeable magazines in the group. If the assault rifle can accept the same magazine as the M16 series it should be good to go. Since that applies to the majority of 5.56mm NATO service rifles and many civilian semiautomatic rifles, that should not be a big problem.

[Cpt_Frank]

As long as all the regular 7.62mm NATO semiautomatic rifles use the same magazines, M14 or SLR should be pretty much a personal choice, with the G3 in the mix for those who prefer it (but I'd prefer the M14, personall, which is moot since I would not be going). People with actual sniper or hunting qualifications should obviously take their rifle of choice. The major concern is that all the regular 7.62mm rifles had best be using compatible magazines to allow sharing. A rifle without compatible ammunition too often gets held by a dead rifleman. Since the scenario specifies that military types may take along an automatic support weapon in addition to the rifle/shotgun/SMG of their choice, there's no point in military types really packing an ordinary battle rifle or assault rifle.

Those who prefer 5.56mm assault rifles should also pretty much choose the gun of their choice, with an eye to reliability and ease of repair and the ironclad requirement of mutually interchangeable magazines in the group. If the assault rifle can accept the same magazine as the M16 series it should be good to go. Since that applies to the majority of 5.56mm NATO service rifles and many civilian semiautomatic rifles, that should not be a big problem.

The G3A3 uses mags different from those of the FAL.

[Rob Wilson]

Ahh, I think my dad had a go on one of those once, but he used the SLR as his service rifle in the RAF.

I forget the name of the best sniper rifle made in the UK,

L42-A1, made by Lee-Enfield(RSAF), the predecessor to the L-96.

I know the PSG-1 is amazing from all accounts.

The PSG-1 is fairy gun made for Civvy use.

[Rob Wilson]

Btw as for pistols, how about the Beretta 93R?

Load of crap, one-trick pony. Better off with a Semi-auto pistol.

[Cpt_Frank]

Btw as for pistols, how about the Beretta 93R?

Load of crap, one-trick pony. Better off with a Semi-auto pistol.

Mauser C-96?

[Rob Wilson]

Those who prefer 5.56mm assault rifles should also pretty much choose the gun of their choice, with an eye to reliability and ease of repair and the ironclad requirement of mutually interchangeable magazines in the group. If the assault rifle can accept the same magazine as the M16 series it should be good to go. Since that applies to the majority of 5.56mm NATO service rifles and many civilian semiautomatic rifles, that should not be a big problem.

There is zero need for a 5.56mm weapon. I'de rather the 5.56mm get replaced with 7.62mm ammo and then you have all we need.

We are fighting from inside an fixed base, with plenty of storage for ammo, there is no need for 5.56mm at all. You have GPMGs for section support-fire and large calibre rifles for everything else. Pistols are personal side-arms for emergency use, and the Bayonet on your weapon for close work (yur fighting on top of a wall, so you can use your weapon to lever the ladders off if neccesary).

[Rob Wilson]

You take all the fun out of it, but the MOPP gear is considered standard issue I believe (One of our military members can probably confirm that) - so, depending on clarification.. It's certainly worth the drab of the uniforms. Pity, though. If one is risking death, one should at least be well-dressed (Zouaves, perhaps? Ah well, 'tis a pity, but not a fatal one).

Well if we have a standard equipment load out then we can have S-10 respirators and MBC suits for all of us (plus an extra 500 in the stores of the base). We'd need it to as without fossil fuels we can't make rubber for the masks.

[Sea Skimmer]

Those who prefer 5.56mm assault rifles should also pretty much choose the gun of their choice, with an eye to reliability and ease of repair and the ironclad requirement of mutually interchangeable magazines in the group. If the assault rifle can accept the same magazine as the M16 series it should be good to go. Since that applies to the majority of 5.56mm NATO service rifles and many civilian semiautomatic rifles, that should not be a big problem.

There is zero need for a 5.56mm weapon. I'de rather the 5.56mm get replaced with 7.62mm ammo and then you have all we need.

We are fighting from inside an fixed base, with plenty of storage for ammo, there is no need for 5.56mm at all. You have GPMGs for section support-fire and large calibre rifles for everything else. Pistols are personal side-arms for emergency use, and the Bayonet on your weapon for close work (yur fighting on top of a wall, so you can use your weapon to lever the ladders off if neccesary).

Our base is the place where least likely to fight at, its located far from the scenes of action. To accomplish our objectives we need to travel hundreds of miles though terrain that offers dirt tracks at best, and hills covered in forests more often.

5.56 allows for worth while automatice fire, and is easier for those with little or no experiance to use. Where not going to be able to fire thousand of rounds training people.

It can deal with any target. Even if theres somthing around with more protection then 6mm of RHA, Sweden makes an AP round thats gone through over an inch of the stuff at 100 meters.

[Rob Wilson]

That's also where a Zeppelin could come in handy. Simply hover it over the walls and drop charges on them, or go over Mount Doom and drop the giant block of steel containing the One Ring into the fire pit.

As excellent as that last idea is, your Zeppelin is succeptible to Nazghul attacks from above.

[Cpt_Frank]

That's also where a Zeppelin could come in handy. Simply hover it over the walls and drop charges on them, or go over Mount Doom and drop the giant block of steel containing the One Ring into the fire pit.

As excellent as that last idea is, your Zeppelin is succeptible to Nazghul attacks from above.

Not if there's only one guy with a MG-3 sitting on top of said Zeppelin.

[Rob Wilson]

Not entirely. Building a blue-water navy would be a waste of resources, since the only sea power described in the LotR are the Corsairs of Umbar (and they have about 40 ships left i think) and there would be very few rivers a navy could sail up. Besides possibly some rafts for getting the Humvees across a river, there would be no point.

Well, if we bulid some Ocean-rated Barges, we can effectively replicate the firepower of our base. These are sailed down the Isen from the Gap, along the shoreline and then up the Anduin, (use the Humvee engines in Battery for propultion power.) you make the Barges after the fashion of early Iron Clads, but mounted with Mortars, GPMG's and .50's - 6 Barges should do it. These are sent off after the Battle to destroy the Uruk Hai and should arrive just in time to moor outside Minas Tirith and start the firesupport. Make thm long enough and the sheer amount of Ammo you could cary for your firebases would be staggering. This way we help out at Gondor as well, without having to expose ourselves to attack while on foot and we have fortified Bases to work from. We only have to last a Day or so in the fight and can do some serious damage! Other than that though, i can't think f any reason for a Navy.

[haas mark]

I *attempted* to read through the first two pages... although interesting, very confusing..

[Rob Wilson]

Those who prefer 5.56mm assault rifles should also pretty much choose the gun of their choice, with an eye to reliability and ease of repair and the ironclad requirement of mutually interchangeable magazines in the group. If the assault rifle can accept the same magazine as the M16 series it should be good to go. Since that applies to the majority of 5.56mm NATO service rifles and many civilian semiautomatic rifles, that should not be a big problem.

There is zero need for a 5.56mm weapon. I'de rather the 5.56mm get replaced with 7.62mm ammo and then you have all we need.

We are fighting from inside an fixed base, with plenty of storage for ammo, there is no need for 5.56mm at all. You have GPMGs for section support-fire and large calibre rifles for everything else. Pistols are personal side-arms for emergency use, and the Bayonet on your weapon for close work (yur fighting on top of a wall, so you can use your weapon to lever the ladders off if neccesary).

Our base is the place where least likely to fight at, its located far from the scenes of action. To accomplish our objectives we need to travel hundreds of miles though terrain that offers dirt tracks at best, and hills covered in forests more often.

Unless you place it in the Gap, which the Uruk Hai have to cross to get to Helms deep.

If we are stupid enough to leave the base, we will be slaughtered, as without a prepared position and a large ammo stowage position we would never be able to fight them in their large numbers! We would be stupid to not have them come to us. It's either that, or Helms deep and we have no agriculture or extended supply line there.

Are people seriously suggesting we mount up and meet them in the field of battle? We leave the one asset we have and just hope we can overcome them? If we put fair sized town in the middle of their route, they'll try to take it and we tie them up there and slaughter them.



5.56 allows for worth while automatice fire, and is easier for those with little or no experiance to use. Where not going to be able to fire thousand of rounds training people.

It can deal with any target. Even if theres somthing around with more protection then 6mm of RHA, Sweden makes an AP round thats gone through over an inch of the stuff at 100 meters.[/quote]

[Sea Skimmer]

There is zero need for a 5.56mm weapon. I'de rather the 5.56mm get replaced with 7.62mm ammo and then you have all we need.

We are fighting from inside an fixed base, with plenty of storage for ammo, there is no need for 5.56mm at all. You have GPMGs for section support-fire and large calibre rifles for everything else. Pistols are personal side-arms for emergency use, and the Bayonet on your weapon for close work (yur fighting on top of a wall, so you can use your weapon to lever the ladders off if neccesary).

Our base is the place where least likely to fight at, its located far from the scenes of action. To accomplish our objectives we need to travel hundreds of miles though terrain that offers dirt tracks at best, and hills covered in forests more often.

Unless you place it in the Gap, which the Uruk Hai have to cross to get to Helms deep.

Our base is established to be a the mouth of the river Isen per the original thread.

[Sea Skimmer]

As for being slaughtered. By who? We have 18 years before the war really begins. There is no Orc hoard in Isenguard yet. Where going to need to leave often to build up forces and keep our selves going.

[Cpt_Frank]

As for being slaughtered. By who? We have 18 years before the war really begins. There is no Orc hoard in Isenguard yet. Where going to need to leave often to build up forces and keep our selves going.

What 18 years??? I thought it was 1!

[NecronLord]

translating our books of knowledge into locla tongue so that the learning is not lost after we leave or die.

Not until we sort out the palantir problem...

[Rob Wilson]

5.56 allows for worth while automatice fire, and is easier for those with little or no experiance to use. Where not going to be able to fire thousand of rounds training people.

It can deal with any target. Even if theres somthing around with more protection then 6mm of RHA, Sweden makes an AP round thats gone through over an inch of the stuff at 100 meters.

Automatic Fire? Get a fucking grip, we need to engage them at RANGE, that means 7.62mm, .50cal and Mortars. When they get real close, we have GPMG's and a nice beaten zone to slow them down. The Normal riflemen don't need to waste ammo on Auto fire. And using auto fire as a justification for carrying more ammo is quite frankly the stupidist thing said on this thread to date. You can carry 1.5 (aprox)rounds more of 5.56mm ammo for every 7.62mm round, yet on Auto your using maybe 3-5 rounds to do the job of 1, your actually lessening the amount of effective ammo used!

7.62mm semi-auto weapons, with GPMG's to carry the Slack for beaten zones.

5.56mm has no place for us in this scenario (or in real life for that matter).

[Sea Skimmer]

As for being slaughtered. By who? We have 18 years before the war really begins. There is no Orc hoard in Isenguard yet. Where going to need to leave often to build up forces and keep our selves going.

What 18 years??? I thought it was 1!

Read the first post. We arrive in 3000, and the main events of LOTR happen in 3018.

Where arriving year before the book The Fellowship of the Ring begins, at the start of that book Gandalf leaves for 17 years to search for information on the ring before coming back. It's only at that point that Frodo departs on the quest for Mt. Doom and the war of the ring begins.

[Rob Wilson]

As for being slaughtered. By who? We have 18 years before the war really begins. There is no Orc hoard in Isenguard yet. Where going to need to leave often to build up forces and keep our selves going.

So you want to attack Isengard immediately, and have everyone on Middle Earth after our guts, as Saruman is still thought of as a Good guy at that point. So with the Armies of the west concentrating on us instead of Mordor you want to make Saurons job easier??? Um, ok. you do that.

[Cpt_Frank]

Automatic Fire? Get a fucking grip, we need to engage them at RANGE, that means 7.62mm, .50cal and Mortars. When they get real close, we have GPMG's and a nice beaten zone to slow them down. The Normal riflemen don't need to waste ammo on Auto fire. And using auto fire as a justification for carrying more ammo is quite frankly the stupidist thing said on this thread to date. You can carry 1.5 (aprox)rounds more of 5.56mm ammo for every 7.62mm round, yet on Auto your using maybe 3-5 rounds to do the job of 1, your actually lessening the amount of effective ammo used!

7.62mm semi-auto weapons, with GPMG's to carry the Slack for beaten zones.

5.56mm has no place for us in this scenario (or in real life for that matter).

.223 has almost the same stopping power as 7.62 NATO. The cartridge is lighter, has less recoil and it needs less training.

[haas mark]

Okay, I slugged through the first 10 pages (soemwhat) and noticed something on Diplomacy.. negotiations. I may not be too good at many war/battle-related things, but I know I'm antisocialist, and insane, enough to do negotiations. I've played Diplomacy for a couple of years now, and it's all about negotiations... ie, lying, cheating, deceit, the whole nine yards. Something I can claim to be somewhat good at.

[Rob Wilson]

Our base is established to be a the mouth of the river Isen per the original thread.

What knobhead came to that brilliant bit of stratgic positioning?

Well we can do sooooo much so far from all the action, and with so few assets to project our power effectively. Which SB military genius came up with this? And I've noticed a lot of threads at th begiingin were concerned with where to place our base for maximum effectivness. If SB want to be all the way over there, let them, however lets have the people with the brains in the best plac to use them.

[Sea Skimmer]

As for being slaughtered. By who? We have 18 years before the war really begins. There is no Orc hoard in Isenguard yet. Where going to need to leave often to build up forces and keep our selves going.

So you want to attack Isengard immediately, and have everyone on Middle Earth after our guts, as Saruman is still thought of as a Good guy at that point. So with the Armies of the west concentrating on us instead of Mordor you want to make Saurons job easier??? Um, ok. you do that.

WTF? Where the hell did I say that? In fact I've stated I'm AGINST an outright attack on Saruman for exactly those reason.