Phantom Menace and bad writing

[Anguirus]

Ironically, you complain about nitpicking but you're missing the forest for the trees here. The overall theme of this thread has revolved around broad, structural flaws which amount to very serious criticisms of the film. These have included a poorly constructed story, uncompelling characters, and especially an overall failure to impart a sense of urgency due to poorly communicated stakes

Poorly constructed story: check, I and others have brought it up.

Uncompelling characters: qualified check. I thought Portman was fine in TPM (and ONLY TPM) as were McGregor (actually a bit underused) and Neeson. The only thing that's actually wrong with these characters is that they aren't a bank-shot like Luke, Leia, and Han. That, and Lucas' relative inability to handle actors that has been discussed ad nauseam...the more power he has over the production, the more "epic" and stilted the style tends to be.

As discussed, he blew it with Anakin, which is Bad; props to Jake Lloyd for trying.

Failure to impart a sense of urgency: qualified check. I think that the only way to truly satisfy the demand for this in the thread would be to tear down the whole movie and start over. As soon as Lucas made the creative decision to make the movie revolve around the fate of one planet and set the story back so far in the past, he tied his hands a bit. The galaxy isn't at war yet, therefore, it makes no sense for the non-Sith villains to be a bunch of insanely ruthless badasses who must be destroyed at all costs.
The inherent difficulty is to make villains bad enough so that Amidala's desperation to save her people is obvious, but still have the villains be no more than a pale imitation of the Death Star crew in ANH. So I don't think the stakes themselves are that bad, but I'm swinging around to the belief that we needed to see more Gungan and Naboo suffering (Lucas failed "show don't tell" here).
As usual with this particular film, it comes back to tone. Lucas deliberately shot for a tone that would be unlikely to satisfy most of the people in this thread, myself included. The movie actually plays so much like a light children's fantasy that random Podracer and pilot deaths seemed a bit jarring the first time I saw it. The only time when this is twisted around to the film's advantage is when Darth Maul kills the hell out of Qui-Gon.

All the specific examples, which you dismiss as nitpicks, have tied into that overall criticism and helped to illustrate the problem:

Ok, let's hear it...

from the ambiguity over the Sith,

BZZT. This remains irrelevance. The only people who are likely to be interested in the lore of Jedi vs. Sith are ones who will buy books explaining it. The average moviegoer is easily able to connect the dots that the Sith are Darksiders who came up short against the Jedi and are now swinging for revenge. That's all we EVER need to know about the Sith for the purposes of the movies.

to the lack of any urgency surrounding the whole invasion

Conceded, and discussed above.

to Sidious's relatively opaque motivations

BZZT. This is a feature, not a bug. We find out about Sidious in Episode III. He is, in fact, the Phantom Fucking Menace. Smart moviegoers see him laying the groundwork for his coup which must occur before Episode IV. Dumb ones...well, I think some people STILL think Palpatine is a clone of Sidious or some shit.

to Maul's undeveloped character

BZZT. Nobody cares about his character, that's why they hired a martial artist to play him. He's not particularly important to the saga: he's a Red Shirt Sith. We can easily infer that he's highly skilled, a religious zealot, and little more than a tool of Palpatine; that's about as much characterization as either of the Fetts received. What's important about him (aside from killing the lead character of the movie...let's not dismiss how ballsy it is for a popcorn flick to do that) is that he makes the Jedi realize that the Sith are still around.

to the overall inconsequentiality of the final battle, all of these things tie into the overall criticism.

Mixed feelings on this one. I think the dismissal of Qui-Gon's death is idiocy, but I can't stand Little Ani's and General Jar Jar's accidental heroics. This is a bit of a fumble.

The movie does have consequences, but in the context of the whole saga too few of them have future repercussions. The results of the battle and resulting manipulations do lead almost directly to the Seperatist movement, if you pay attention to Count Dooku in Episode II.

[Anguirus]

Nevermind the invasion. Why no consequences for the attempted murder of two Jedi knights?!

"It's unthinkable! After four (?) trials in the Supreme Court, Nute Gunray is still the Viceroy of the Trade Federation!"

Remember that TPM establishes that this is like being the head of a sovereign nation. If they can't even dethrone him, they probably can't hold a murder trial.

And they can't dethrone him because Sidious is very deliberately keeping him resentful-yet-powerful, as can be trivially implied by AotC. He unknowingly bitches to Sidious' new apprentice that he wants revenge on the guy, which Dooku turns around into "let's attack the Republic because Sidious is clearly running it."

(Unfortunately, RotS has Gunray back to taking marching orders from Sidious, and Lucas resorted to The Dread EU to wallpaper this over. It's not crazy-making after three years of war, but still careless and confusing.)

[Darth Hoth]

Hmm... I'd say that overstates the case. I'd call the Jedi something more like "nobly ineffective." Remember, what ultimately made them so messed up was the effects of their own intense anti-Dark Side conditioning.

How is it the saying goes, "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions"? I do not deny that the Jedi themselves believe that they serve the common good, which places them above most cartoon villains, at any rate. However, their actions betray the mindset of religious fanatics; they consistently place their principles over the well-being of various people. Apparently they will knowingly and maliciously keep Anakin separated from his mother and leave her in slavery while they have custody of him because of their rabid attachment-phobia, for just one thing. And if we look to the EU it becomes all that much worse, with friendship even between Jedi being crimethink and the Order praising a Master who had enough self-control not to mind that Colicoids ate her friend. After all, they were only abiding by their own culture, so moral relativism makes it all right, and a good Jedi should not take issue with it. (The latter case, my all-time favourite example of bankrupt Jedi morality, comes from the WotC Revised Core Rulebook.)

But that conditioning was imposed precisely because the alternative was to have the Order raining a steady stream of Dark Jedi to cause chaos on the rest of the galaxy.

Going by the films alone (as seems to be the general idea around here), this is completely unsupported, and only marginally better in the EU (where all eras of Jedi have screw-ups, with little noticeable difference between the more and less rigid Orders). If this was so super-important, why would Ben or Yoda never have mentioned it in the OT? Nor does it bear out empirically; when you set up those kinds of unattainable standards (i.e., "No Attachment EVUR!"), it leads not to perfection, but hypocrisy. Which is shown both by the films (Anakin gets married anyway, but in secret, which places that much extra stress on him) and the EU (where numerous Jedi break the same rule, and Masters on the Council can even get dispensations from it). Or, for a real-life parallel, consider the celibacy required of its clergy by the Roman Catholic Church.

In fact, Anakin's entire "fall" to the Dark Side is arguably a result of the inflexibly monastic Jedi policies that are notionally there to prevent such. If the Order had not been such arseholes about his mother, the seeds would not have been sown, and if the Masters had been at all supportive when he feared the death of a close friend (or however he phrased it to Yoda) he would perhaps not have sought Sith teachings instead.

They were benevolent, but so withdrawn into their own doctrines that their ability to practice that benevolence on the galaxy at large was crippled. Very ivory-tower, but not evil.

I would say that their treatment of the children in their care is arguably evil (if well-intentioned evil). If one grows up in an environment where all friendship and attachment is discouraged, how does that affect one's emotional development? If one is raised in a cloister without contact with the outside world, how is one affected by that? And yes, here I relied on the EU for evidence, given that the films do not show the training in detail; Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader is my main source.

It is not just that they isolate themselves from the galaxy, they go to great lengths (and arguably evil such) to preserve the status quo.

All things taken into account I just cannot view the Jedi as portrayed in the prequel era as a force of good. Although if you are interested in a Jedi morality debate, I would rather take that at some other point, and in another thread, so that we do not hijack this one.

EDIT: Fixed a couple of typos.

[Darth Hoth]

Speaking of which, there's another rather large plothole in TPM:

- Qui-Gon, Padme and Obi-wan are unable to get off Tattoine because they need a specific part for their ship and whatsisname won't accept credits.
- Anakin, a slave of whatsisname, has secretly built not only an entire pod racer, but also a protocol droid out of parts he's filched from whatsisname.
- Yet despite being able to filch what looks like at least several hundred pounds worth of parts, at least some of which have to be advanced electronics, computer parts and engine components, Anakin is somehow unable to filch the single part required to fix Padme's ship.

Once more, characters are selectively idiots/incompetent because the plot dictates that something happens.

If you are willing to accept EU evidence, this was explained (well, sort of) in one of the Ep I comics. Jar Jar asked Qui-Gon why he would not simply steal the parts from Watto and free Anakin and his mother with force (also, in the comic, Qui-Gon had just fought off a goon squad Watto sent at him after the race so he would not have to honour his wager). Qui-Gon answered that he would not approve violence when there were other options.

Then Padme objected that putting Anakin at risk in a violent Ben Hur competition was worse. I do not quite recall what Qui-Gon told her, so do not quote me on this, but I seem to remember that he said it was the will of the Force, or something like that.

So, he was not really incompetent. Just dogmatic again.

[Crazedwraith]

Speaking of which, there's another rather large plothole in TPM:

- Qui-Gon, Padme and Obi-wan are unable to get off Tattoine because they need a specific part for their ship and whatsisname won't accept credits.
- Anakin, a slave of whatsisname, has secretly built not only an entire pod racer, but also a protocol droid out of parts he's filched from whatsisname.
- Yet despite being able to filch what looks like at least several hundred pounds worth of parts, at least some of which have to be advanced electronics, computer parts and engine components, Anakin is somehow unable to filch the single part required to fix Padme's ship.

Once more, characters are selectively idiots/incompetent because the plot dictates that something happens.

Or the part wasn't something easy to nick. Maybe it was too large or contained superdense elements like hypermatter and so forth that we know Hyperdrives contain.

Maybe Watto did the sensible things and get the parts under lock and key; rather than just in the pile with all the other junk that Anakin could nick. Stealing something from the unwary is easy after all. Stealing something when Watto is already suspicious and knows you want it is much harder.

[Aaron]

Or the part wasn't something easy to nick. Maybe it was too large or contained superdense elements like hypermatter and so forth that we know Hyperdrives contain.

Maybe Watto did the sensible things and get the parts under lock and key; rather than just in the pile with all the other junk that Anakin could nick. Stealing something from the unwary is easy after all. Stealing something when Watto is already suspicious and knows you want it is much harder.

We see it briefly later on, it was being pulled on a sled by a pack animal. Going by my hazy memory it looked to be about the same size as this thing:


Which Obi-Wan was fiddling with after they land. So, not something Anikan could stuff under his coat.

[Simon_Jester]

Darth Hoth, I'll try to keep it short. I... I don't entirely concede the point, but I definitely see your point; I think we're arguing over what kinds of acts qualify as "evil" rather than merely "bad" more than we are over whether the Jedi are actually doing things right.

Nor does it bear out empirically; when you set up those kinds of unattainable standards (i.e., "No Attachment EVUR!"), it leads not to perfection, but hypocrisy. Which is shown both by the films (Anakin gets married anyway, but in secret, which places that much extra stress on him) and the EU (where numerous Jedi break the same rule, and Masters on the Council can even get dispensations from it). Or, for a real-life parallel, consider the celibacy required of its clergy by the Roman Catholic Church.

This is all true. It's an institutional problem the Jedi have, a very serious one. The limit of my defense of the prequel-era Order is that they are not evil for reasonable definitions of "evil," not that they are well organized or "good."

The rules don't work perfectly, and they fail horribly around the time of the Clone Wars. And I think there are obvious reasons for that- the Order having been run by one little old frog-man for far too long comes to mind.

I would say that their treatment of the children in their care is arguably evil (if well-intentioned evil). If one grows up in an environment where all friendship and attachment is discouraged, how does that affect one's emotional development? If one is raised in a cloister without contact with the outside world, how is one affected by that? And yes, here I relied on the EU for evidence, given that the films do not show the training in detail; Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader is my main source.

OK. You can make a good case for this; it's a huge ethical problem with the Order's policies. The only reason I think there's even a question about this in my mind is that the sheer scale of the chaos that results when Jedi discipline breaks en masse is staggering; the resulting wars tend to kill billions if not trillions.

When you're playing with fire that has the potential to burn on that scale, I can understand how well-intentioned policies can wind up leading to individual abuses. And I am reluctant to call that outright "evil," though I do understand why you do.

[Darth Yan]

if the jedi had killed the colicoids she would have been no better. She had to deal with them, and she couldn't count on the republic to punish them. Should she start a diplomatic incident to appease her desire for revenge? And the Jedi's fear of attatchment wasn't wholly unfounded. Rain murdered the Jedi who inadvertantly killed her friend and become an utter psycopath, Revan and Malak genuinely wanted to help at first but Malak let his hatred of the mandalorians turn him into a psycopath, and Revan became the sith emporer's errand boy serving his master's bidding. The jedi's fears weren't entirely unfounded. Yes they could have handled it better, but they did have legit reasons to be afraid.

[Galvatron]

Nevermind the invasion. Why no consequences for the attempted murder of two Jedi knights?!

"It's unthinkable! After four (?) trials in the Supreme Court, Nute Gunray is still the Viceroy of the Trade Federation!"

I don't mean long-term consequences so much as short-term ones. The Senate might have been willing to drag their feet about a relative backwater like Naboo, but a direct attack on two duly appointed Jedi emissaries and the destruction of a Republic starship with all hands aboard should have prompted some action.

After all, even Darth Vader had to fabricate a cover story about the destruction of Tantive IV for the Imperial Senate in ANH. I imagine the Trade Federation might have done the same thing, but that's only worth a shit if the people they tried to kill don't show up alive and refute their story.

[Aaron]

I don't mean long-term consequences so much as short-term ones. The Senate might have been willing to drag their feet about a relative backwater like Naboo, but a direct attack on two duly appointed Jedi emissaries and the destruction of a Republic starship with all hands aboard should have prompted some action.

After all, even Darth Vader had to fabricate a cover story about the destruction of Tantive IV for the Imperial Senate in ANH. I imagine the Trade Federation might have done the same thing, but that's only worth a shit if the people they tried to kill don't show up alive and refute their story.

Thats the thing though, the Jedi are never called before the Senate to testify and as far as I know, their testimony was never submitted to the Senate or even asked for. The Chancellor sent them but never bothered to follow up on it.

[Galvatron]

I understand that and I agree with you. However, some people think it's not a plot-hole and that those of us who think it is are "idiots" who need to be spood-fed with scenes actually showing the Jedi testify.

[Anguirus]

I don't mean long-term consequences so much as short-term ones. The Senate might have been willing to drag their feet about a relative backwater like Naboo, but a direct attack on two duly appointed Jedi emissaries and the destruction of a Republic starship with all hands aboard should have prompted some action.

Yes, it should have, but it clearly didn't. If Nute Gunray walked off scot-free for the damage he caused to Naboo, I think he can wriggle out of killing two pilots.

After all, even Darth Vader had to fabricate a cover story about the destruction of Tantive IV for the Imperial Senate in ANH. I imagine the Trade Federation might have done the same thing, but that's only worth a shit if the people they tried to kill don't show up alive and refute their story.

In the case of TPM, the people they tried to kill did show up, and the result was that Valorum (aka leader of the galaxy) was chucked out of office and Gunray was arrested and put on trial. Clearly, historical precedent alone provides Vader a reason to cover up the attack on the Tantive IV later.

Of course, Gunray avoided prosecution because Palpatine = Sidious = that guy who can mind-control practically anyone he wants.

I understand that and I agree with you. However, some people think it's not a plot-hole and that those of us who think it is are "idiots" who need to be spood-fed with scenes actually showing the Jedi testify.

Of course it's not a fucking plothole. The Jedi have already reported to Valorum; having them report to the Senate, whom any remotely reasonable person could conclude receives briefings, is padding.

The actual reason why it's not a fucking plothole is that it doesn't actually change anything that happens in the chamber. The Trade Federation Senator calls everyone's credibility into question, he digs up one other Senator to support him, Palpatine's blue guy gives Valorum shitty advice, Palpatine himself plants the idea in Amidala's head to denounce Valorum, and the entire chamber rises up and supports her. What do the Jedi do in this scenario? Slightly change the ratio of the pro-corporate guys to the giant majority who jumps in on Padme's side? Make Palpatine work slightly harder at his mind tricks? Conjure Star Destroyers and fly them to Naboo? Fly to the planet and beat up Nute Gunray on behalf of the Republic? (Oh, wait, they almost literally do that.)

You jokers need to provide some obvious mechanism for the Jedi to radically change the dynamics in the chamber. Who says that everyone's going to believe the Jedi when they get up and talk personally? This is the same legislative body that rubber-stamps the Jedis' extermination in 15 years.

As far as why I'm calling you idiots, I'm sorry, but it is literally inconceivable that, even in a universe as simplistic as Star Wars, that the Senators are somehow totally unaware that the Jedi were involved in the incident under discussion. Valorum would pretty much have to cover it up, and there's no evidence that he does so. Also, if the Senators were ignorant of Jedi involvement AND Jedi involvement would change the minds of the "bad" Senators, Palpatine (and everybody else who's hypothetically trying to cover up Jedi involvement in your bizarre account) would have to count on Padme failing to mention Jedi for his plan to work. (Gran Senator: "Oh, wait, Jedi were there? Srsrly? And a couple pilots got blown up? Fuck this asshole, his bribery check bounced anyway. Let's go BDZ Neimoidia.")

The reason why all of you guys remain wrong is because it's a scene about politics stuck in the middle of an action movie that already, for unrelated reasons, has serious pacing problems. This scene needed to move as fast as possible!

[Channel72]

Of course it's not a fucking plothole. The Jedi have already reported to Valorum; having them report to the Senate, whom any remotely reasonable person could conclude receives briefings, is padding.

The actual reason why it's not a fucking plothole is that it doesn't actually change anything that happens in the chamber. The Trade Federation Senator calls everyone's credibility into question, he digs up one other Senator to support him, Palpatine's blue guy gives Valorum shitty advice, Palpatine himself plants the idea in Amidala's head to denounce Valorum, and the entire chamber rises up and supports her. What do the Jedi do in this scenario? Slightly change the ratio of the pro-corporate guys to the giant majority who jumps in on Padme's side? Make Palpatine work slightly harder at his mind tricks? Conjure Star Destroyers and fly them to Naboo? Fly to the planet and beat up Nute Gunray on behalf of the Republic? (Oh, wait, they almost literally do that.)

I'm sorry, but this is just bullshit. The way the scene is written, it's pretty hard to deny there's a major writing failure here. Let's review the scene:

Here is a summary of exactly what happens.

1) Amidala addresses the Senate and tells everyone that the Trade Federation invaded Naboo with a droid army.
2) A Trade Federation representative named "Lott Dod" objects to this accusation, but is overruled by Valorum.
3) Another Senator from a place called "Malastare" sides with the Trade Federation and says that, according to procedure, a commission must be sent to Naboo to verify the Queen's testimony.
4) Palpatine whispers to Amidala, suggesting to her that Valorum is bought-and-sold by the Trade Feds.
5) Valorum asks Amidala if she can wait until a commission is sent to Naboo to verify her accusation.
6) Amidala flips out, and calls for a no-confidence vote.

Now, at any point during this proceeding, and especially after 3 or after 5, the Queen could have requested the Jedi be called in to corroborate her testimony. Not only that, it's inexplicable why Valorum himself wouldn't have brought in the Jedi to testify in the first place. That would have immediately resolved the conflict with the other Senators. When characters on-screen fail to do the obvious thing that anyone with half a brain would do, it's called a plot-hole. When characters act in ways that are basically inexplicable without appealing to possible off-screen events and/or blatant character stupidity, it's either a plot-hole or bad writing. Regardless, the point stands.

Now let me preemptively address possible rebuttals:

1) The Queen didn't call in the Jedi because she's a stupid 14-year old, and / or being mind-controlled or otherwise manipulated by Palpatine.
Answer: In the first case, this is an example of the plot being driven by blatant character stupidity, and thus amounts to bad writing. In the latter case, it still doesn't explain why Valorum himself didn't immediately call in the Jedi - unless everyone is being mind-controlled by Palpatine, in which case he may as well just declare himself Emperor right now and get it over with.

2) Valorum didn't call in the Jedi because he actually is on the payroll of the Trade Federation, and is therefore being purposely obtuse.
Answer: If this is true, it's not in anyway suggested by on-screen events. Valorum's proposal to send a commission to Naboo is totally reasonable, in light of the conflicting claims from the two representatives, and does not suggest he is actually corrupt. So, if he's supposed to be corrupt, we have a total writing failure here to communicate this fact.

[Galvatron]

I don't mean long-term consequences so much as short-term ones. The Senate might have been willing to drag their feet about a relative backwater like Naboo, but a direct attack on two duly appointed Jedi emissaries and the destruction of a Republic starship with all hands aboard should have prompted some action.

Yes, it should have, but it clearly didn't. If Nute Gunray walked off scot-free for the damage he caused to Naboo, I think he can wriggle out of killing two pilots.

Again, I'm not talking about the long-term consequences (e.g. Gunray's four trials). The attempted murder of the Jedi and the successful murder of the ship's crew were acts of aggression against the Republic. This alone should have prompted a swift response by the Jedi council, if not the Senate.

For that matter, even the Jedi council totally ignored it. They were so focused on the Sith and Anakin that they simply forgot(?) about the Trade Federation's brazen hostility against two of their own. WTF? These are the so-called "guardians of peace and justice?"

As far as why I'm calling you idiots, I'm sorry, but it is literally inconceivable that, even in a universe as simplistic as Star Wars, that the Senators are somehow totally unaware that the Jedi were involved in the incident under discussion. Valorum would pretty much have to cover it up, and there's no evidence that he does so. Also, if the Senators were ignorant of Jedi involvement AND Jedi involvement would change the minds of the "bad" Senators, Palpatine (and everybody else who's hypothetically trying to cover up Jedi involvement in your bizarre account) would have to count on Padme failing to mention Jedi for his plan to work. (Gran Senator: "Oh, wait, Jedi were there? Srsrly? And a couple pilots got blown up? Fuck this asshole, his bribery check bounced anyway. Let's go BDZ Neimoidia.")

That's funny, I seem to remember the opening crawl mentioning that Chancellor Valorum secretly dispatched the Jedi to Naboo. Even Sidious didn't even know about it until the Neimoidians told him. So, yeah, this might have been a significant revelation for the Senate.

Conclusion: you're basically calling us idiots for a totally bullshit reason and a glaring oversight on your part.

[Anguirus]

Conclusion: you're basically calling us idiots for a totally bullshit reason and a glaring oversight on your part.

"The point...is conceded."

Your objections make a lot more sense now. I did honestly forget about that.

I still don't think this "plot hole" is as bad as you're making it out to be. Valorum was obviously trying to resolve the situation without letting on that he'd dispatched agents (so I take back what I said, he does have an interest in covering up the Jedi presence). The fact that Palpatine thoroughly outmaneuvered Valorum does not change, because by the time the whole Senate is screaming at him it's too late for him to pull Jedi out of his pocket. And pulling Jedi out only really helps Valorum anyway, because the Senate has already been won over.

But yes, I revise my statements and agree that it's another example of clumsy writing and poorly chosen priorities in TPM.

[Galvatron]

"The point...is conceded."

Cool. You''ve just earned some paragon points.

[Oni Koneko Damien]

After seeing picture evidence, I concede the point, the part was obviously too large for a kid to simply steal. Still, I doubt Watto had it under that much security if the mysterious loss of several hundred pounds of equipment including advanced engine and computer parts didn't evidently bother him.

If you are willing to accept EU evidence, this was explained (well, sort of) in one of the Ep I comics. Jar Jar asked Qui-Gon why he would not simply steal the parts from Watto and free Anakin and his mother with force (also, in the comic, Qui-Gon had just fought off a goon squad Watto sent at him after the race so he would not have to honour his wager). Qui-Gon answered that he would not approve violence when there were other options.

Well, since it doesn't contradict higher Canon, it's technically acceptable.

Then Padme objected that putting Anakin at risk in a violent Ben Hur competition was worse. I do not quite recall what Qui-Gon told her, so do not quote me on this, but I seem to remember that he said it was the will of the Force, or something like that.

So, he was not really incompetent. Just dogmatic again.

Dogmatic to the point of downright evil through sheer negligence. He won't approve of violence when other options are available... so apparently a podrace that regularly involves incredibly dangerous crashes isn't violent? And (I'm running with the assumption that the whole 'it is the will of the Force' thing is true) it seems to run against Qui-Gon's established 'maverick' nature. He's more than willing to go against the will of the Council, who would presumably be more in tune with the Force than he is, but he's perfectly willing to put a kid in mortal danger and trying to divest responsibility by saying, "Hey, it's out of my hands now,"?

I'm just having a hard time believing that two Jedi, one who's a master and has the experience to be on the council if it weren't for political reasons, the crew of Padme's ship and R2D2 wouldn't be able to figure out a way to disable the explosive thingies on Shmi and Anakin. I very much doubt two slaves are going to have the most sophisticated explosives inside them, they could probably be disabled by the Force alone. From there all it takes is some strategic use of Force levitation to get that needed ship part out and viola, *both* are freed and the kid doesn't have to be put in mortal danger in the process. And don't tell me that Qui Gon would object to it on ethical problems. He's already be proven willing to lie (attempting to claim galactic credits would be fine when it was established they weren't, Force coercion just makes the lie more glaringly evident) and cheat (altering the outcome of a gamble in his favour), I very much doubt he'd have any trouble adding stealing to the mix, especially if it's for the greater good.

[adam_grif]

Much more straightforward and guaranteed to work would be going to another junk dealer and using mind trick to swap out credits for local currency, or going to some kind of exchange place on the planet, or going to some kind of smuggler who would have use for the credits to get them.

All brought up by RedLetterMedia.

[Dooey Jo]

If Qui-Gon could do that, surely Watto would be even more qualified, actually knowing that kind of people, and so would have no real problem accepting credits. The Intergalactic Money Bank or whatever probably doesn't even have any presence on the planet, with it being a shithole outside the Republic and all, and credits simply can't be transferred. Why do you assume the film lies to you, but accept RLM's points uncritically?

[Srelex]

Not to mention that in a 'hive of scum and villainy' such as Tatooine there is a large risk that attempting to approach smugglers and such could result being scammed, robbed, kidnapped, etc...and it's likely that the Queen wouldn't exactly be pleased about it.

[Stofsk]

Please. One merchant telling me 'This super-necessary part that you want, the one you literally can't get off the planet without having? Yeah, I'm the only one who has it - and I'm not going to give it to you'. Yeah, I'm totally going to accept what he says without question.

That whole segment was ridiculously contrived so that we could get a time-consuming pod race. Literally, people are dying, the Queen's life is in danger, they have to get to Coruscant to petition the Senate for aid - but its cool, let's take a break for 40 mins to watch a race. What the christ.

Not to mention that in a 'hive of scum and villainy' such as Tatooine there is a large risk that attempting to approach smugglers and such could result being scammed, robbed, kidnapped, etc...and it's likely that the Queen wouldn't exactly be pleased about it.

I'm sure Qui-gon could handle getting mugged.

[Channel72]

If Qui-Gon could do that, surely Watto would be even more qualified, actually knowing that kind of people, and so would have no real problem accepting credits.

The point is that Qui Gon probably could have just hired a transport, the way Luke and Ben did thirty-something years later. Or, he could have traded in the Queen's luxury spaceship for a crappier ship that worked.

[Anguirus]

I very much doubt two slaves are going to have the most sophisticated explosives inside them, they could probably be disabled by the Force alone.

Actually, they probably have very simple explosives inside them, which would be more difficult to disable using the Force (no moving parts).

[Oni Koneko Damien]

I very much doubt two slaves are going to have the most sophisticated explosives inside them, they could probably be disabled by the Force alone.

Actually, they probably have very simple explosives inside them, which would be more difficult to disable using the Force (no moving parts).

Except that the explosives, according to Anakin, are set to blow if they leave the planet. Which means at the very least they have GPS level or some other form of transmitting/receiving electronics to some point probably in Watto's garage. At this point it's just a matter of finding a way to either replicate that signal so it doesn't go off, or disabling/removing the bomb itself.

If Qui-Gon could do that, surely Watto would be even more qualified, actually knowing that kind of people, and so would have no real problem accepting credits. The Intergalactic Money Bank or whatever probably doesn't even have any presence on the planet, with it being a shithole outside the Republic and all, and credits simply can't be transferred. Why do you assume the film lies to you, but accept RLM's points uncritically?

Shithole though it may be, it's still a place that gets a lot of business, and I have a hard time believing there is no fencing operation on the planet for exchanging galactic credits for something useful, why on earth would a lawless shithole close itself to that sort of potential market?

Not to mention that in a 'hive of scum and villainy' such as Tatooine there is a large risk that attempting to approach smugglers and such could result being scammed, robbed, kidnapped, etc...and it's likely that the Queen wouldn't exactly be pleased about it.

As already pointed out: Qui Gon's a Jedi. He certainly didn't seem to have any problem getting Watto to put the part on a gamble, he doesn't exactly seem like a naive tourist. Adding to that: We see Obi-Wan later dealing with kind of seedy portions of Coruscant in AotC. I think, as some of the most allegedly capable beings in the galaxy, Jedi of all people would be trained to deal with potential scams during their missions/investigations.

[adam_grif]

If Qui-Gon could do that, surely Watto would be even more qualified, actually knowing that kind of people, and so would have no real problem accepting credits. The Intergalactic Money Bank or whatever probably doesn't even have any presence on the planet, with it being a shithole outside the Republic and all, and credits simply can't be transferred. Why do you assume the film lies to you, but accept RLM's points uncritically?

It's trivially easy to exchange currencies here on Earth, but shops still won't take your money if you give them pounds instead of dollars. Heck, shops will turn you down even if you are using the right currency because you're using the wrong sort of card.