Libertarianism/Europe tangent

[Formless]

Split from here.

Sure. But covering slightly dirty snow with a white blanket is not nearly as effective as covering dark water or dark plants or dark *whatever* with a white blanket. And sadly, our national - nevermind planetary - economy is not in sufficient shape to tackle *every* problem. So you have to priorize. Do you put a square meter of reflector where it will reflect the equivalent of 100 kilowatts, or where it'll reflect 1 kilowatt?

Covering it with thermal blankets on the other hand may protect it from parts of the infrared spectrum which to my knowledge ice does not reflect nearly as well.

Edit: wait, never mind, disregard this.

Given the amount of far-left-wing extremism I'm seeing here, it comes off as something of cognitive dissonance, or perhaps that "irony" I hear about so much from all the cool kids these days.

Oh, that explains a lot.

You do know that many of the more influential members here are Europeans, Canadians, and Aussies who have a very different understanding of what it means to be conservative, right? I've actually seen this place criticized for being too far Right before, strange as that probably sounds. Just thought I'd put things into perspective. I personally don't think "left" and "right" are all that useful of distinctions, except as a way of framing things in terms of conflict and opposition for those who insist on having sides to take.

[scottlowther]

You do know that many of the more influential members here are Europeans, Canadians, and Aussies who have a very different understanding of what it means to be conservative, right?

Considering Europe's historical failure to understand politics outside of "wuss" and "genocide," I'm not overly concerned with their take on "left" vs. right."

[Formless]

Very well, you are entitled to your opinion. Although strangely you neglect to say anything about Canadians or Australians... interesting...

[scottlowther]

Very well, you are entitled to your opinion. Although strangely you neglect to say anything about Canadians or Australians... interesting...

When they remove European monarchs from their money and culture, they won't be European anymore.

[Formless]

You haven't talked to many Canadians or Aussies recently, have you.

[scottlowther]

You haven't talked to many Canadians or Aussies recently, have you.

Oh, sure. But their government - which they are free to vote out, or just kick out - still pays homage to European regents. Feh. That's the *one* thing the Bolsheviks got right... best use of hereditary "nobility" is target practice.

Not really sure how this applies to acidification of the oceans, but there it is.




Bah. Might as well put Jimmy Carter on there.

[Formless]

When the Australians and Canadians stop associating themselves as Australians and Canadians and start associating themselves as European, then maybe I'd consider that something other than historical baggage.

But you are right-- this is a topic for another thread, so that's all I'll say on it here.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Given the amount of far-left-wing extremism I'm seeing here, it comes off as something of cognitive dissonance, or perhaps that "irony" I hear about so much from all the cool kids these days.

Oh, I see. You think that the United States sets standards for what is right and left wing. You are one of those. As opposed to doing the smart thing and plot all the various positions on a graph (say thinking of it one dimension, create a 1-100 scale, then place the means and standard deviations for every country on that graph) and determining where center is, you define yourself as being center a priori and then decry the others as being far-left extremists. Regardless of whether those positions are right, and regardless of the fact that in comparison to every other westernized country, the US is a far right shithole

[Alyrium Denryle]

Aly's just got anger management issues.

Ph D student in biology. If I dont have stress sufficient to cause anger management problems, I am not working hard enough.

[scottlowther]

As opposed to doing the smart thing and plot all the various positions on a graph (say thinking of it one dimension, create a 1-100 scale, then place the means and standard deviations for every country on that graph) and determining where center is, you define yourself as being center...

Wrong again, dumbass. I consider myself "libertarian," which means right-wing.

in comparison to every other westernized country, the US is a far right shithole

[/quote]

I'll take our wealth, standard of living and better health care system over anyone else's anyday.

[Surlethe]

Locking briefly to split Europe/libertarianism tangents.

Edit: Goddammit, I fucked up the thread split. Trying again ...

[Alyrium Denryle]

Wrong again, dumbass. I consider myself "libertarian," which means right-wing.

Oh gee... I was trying to be generous and just assume that you were arrogant. Not that you were arrogant, batshit crazy, and possessing an ideology that consists entirely of rationalizing your own sociopathic self-regard and aggrandizing that of others.

As opposed to doing the smart thing and plot all the various positions on a graph (say thinking of it one dimension, create a 1-100 scale, then place the means and standard deviations for every country on that graph) and determining where center is, you define yourself as being center...

Wrong again, dumbass. I consider myself "libertarian," which means right-wing.

in comparison to every other westernized country, the US is a far right shithole

I'll take our wealth, standard of living and better health care system over anyone else's anyday.[/quote]

....

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

Depending on what measure used, we are either 4,6, or 8 in per capita GDP, consistently below Norway Singapore and Luxembourg.

then there is HDI, which is a damn good proxy for overall standard of living. It includes life expectancy at birth, overall knowledge and education, and standard of living as measured by purchasing power parity.

1 Norway
2 Australia
3 Iceland
4 Canada
5 Ireland
6 Netherlands
7 Sweden
8 France
9 Switzerland
10 Japan
11 Luxembourg
12 Finland
13 United States

Then there is the WHO's rankings of healthcare systems... Costa Rica does a better job than us.

1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America

[Surlethe]

Okay, I don't want to see a dogpile in this thread.

[Aaron]

Oh, sure. But their government - which they are free to vote out, or just kick out - still pays homage to European regents. Feh. That's the *one* thing the Bolsheviks got right... best use of hereditary "nobility" is target practice.

Not really sure how this applies to acidification of the oceans, but there it is.

Bah. Might as well put Jimmy Carter on there.

Look I don't want to get into a pissing match over this but the Queen is just a figurehead, she has no power or say in our affairs. Yes the Governor-General has the ability to veto legislation or dissolve Parliament, an ability that has never been used, and likely never will baring a bout of insanity or a complete deadlock.

It's a hold-over, a throwback, a tradition. It's like your founding fathers, someone to stick on your cash and ignore until theres a royal wedding.

[scottlowther]

Wrong again, dumbass. I consider myself "libertarian," which means right-wing.

Oh gee... I was trying to be generous and just assume that you were arrogant. Not that you were arrogant, batshit crazy, and possessing an ideology that consists entirely of rationalizing your own sociopathic self-regard and aggrandizing that of others.

Apparently, you've no idea what "libertarian" means, and clearly no desire to be disabused of your notions.

Then there is the WHO's rankings of healthcare systems... Costa Rica does a better job than us.

It's a pity that it's just plain wrong.

http://up-ship.com/blog/?p=3507


Is the rest of your "reasoning" as equally one-dimensional?

[scottlowther]

the Queen is just a figurehead, she has no power or say in our affairs.

That may be so, but symbolism matters. What would y'all say around here if the next Republican candidate for President suggested that the stars in the US flag be replaced with little Christian crosses?

[Teleros]

Erm, there'd be outrage of course. On the other hand, that's related to a figurehead monarch... how?

[Aaron]

the Queen is just a figurehead, she has no power or say in our affairs.

That may be so, but symbolism matters. What would y'all say around here if the next Republican candidate for President suggested that the stars in the US flag be replaced with little Christian crosses?

What symbolism? That Canada was born of a British colony?

Thats a little different then the US claiming outright to be a Christian nation by putting crosses on their flag.

Ultimately what harm is being done by having her as the head of state? Does having her head on my money or my having sworn an oath to her when I signed up confer some magical powers?

[Teleros]

Ultimately what harm is being done by having her as the head of state? Does having her head on my money or my having sworn an oath to her when I signed up confer some magical powers?

Possibly it means you're technically a subject of the current sovereign, rather than a citizen. In ye olde days that'd have meant something, but today... yeah I'm struggling.

[Stark]

The funniest thing about ignorant Americans is the myopia; he probably doesn't know that Australi would probably be a republic if the referendums hadn't been sabotaged. It's likely the flag and Queen would still be the same so I guess Australia would still be 'European' and thus politically retarded.

I look forward to more 'Americans tell foreigners how their country works' action in this thread.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Apparently, you've no idea what "libertarian" means, and clearly no desire to be disabused of your notions.

Oh, I know exactly what it is, because I used to be one. And most arguments defending it can usually be boiled down to "screw you all. I got mine."

It's a pity that it's just plain wrong.

Wait... so you are going to argue against a multi-dimensional measure of healthcare systems done by the World Health Organization... with a one dimensional measure, which is statistically adjusted to remove deaths from fatal injuries, that is 10 fucking years old?

Do you think I am an idiot who would not notice how to read a fucking table?

[Aaron]

Possibly it means you're technically a subject of the current sovereign, rather than a citizen. In ye olde days that'd have meant something, but today... yeah I'm struggling.

I'd love to hear is explanation for why we told the Brits and the Yanks "no" when they wanted us to join the Iraqi invasion then. We should be right in there with them if the Queen had any power, right? Oh wait, she has no power even in her own nation.

[Surlethe]

Hey, Scott, that list of mean life expectancy at birth is worthless without standard deviations. In other words, you're begging the question of whether the differences at the top of the list are significant.

Also,

Not that you were arrogant, batshit crazy, and possessing an ideology that consists entirely of rationalizing your own sociopathic self-regard and aggrandizing that of others.

That characterization libertarians is just silly. There are any number of reasons people become and continue to be libertarian, much like there are any number of reasons people become and continue to be any particular ideology; rationalizing sociopathic self-regard and aggrandizing others' is only one of many, and probably a very small minority at that.

[Teleros]

Possibly it means you're technically a subject of the current sovereign, rather than a citizen. In ye olde days that'd have meant something, but today... yeah I'm struggling.

I'd love to hear is explanation for why we told the Brits and the Yanks "no" when they wanted us to join the Iraqi invasion then. We should be right in there with them if the Queen had any power, right? Oh wait, she has no power even in her own nation.

Erm, I'm agreeing with you .

[Aaron]

Erm, I'm agreeing with you .

Ya, I know. Sometimes tone doesn't carry well over text.