[Research] Questions about the Sith

[Krisnack]

I'm currently working on a crossover where a Sith lord from the Legacy era gets stuck on an information age planet and, lacking a way off, seeks out a Force-sensitive to train as his apprentice.

When recruiting the Force user, what sort of tactics will the Sith use? Promises of power, vague threats of what will happen if he or she doesn't go along. or some of both?

When asked about what the Sith and the Force are, what sort of answers would the Sith give? Would they mix truth and lies, or give them the whole story? Just how much about the Jedi and the Light Side would they tell the apprentice?

What will training be like? The obvious answer is 'nothing pleasant', however I don't want to fall into the trap of creating a bad guy who is cartoonishly evil. How would the student be punished of failure to master a force ability?

[Mayabird]

Nothing personal, but you're more likely to get answers over here.
[line 2]

[Knife]

Sith from the movies, all four of them, seem to get lumped into two categories; manipulator and pissed off bad ass warrior. If a mysterious manipulator type were to recruit, I could see it as a long seduction where the master planned out years in advance what the recruit would do and what he/she wouldn't. In this way, the padawan (or what ever a Sith calls his student) would constantly think he was being tested on X and really he was being tested on Y. On the other hand, if the pissed off bad ass warrior type recruited, I could see him/her being on a constant rage trip like a bad B movie Drill Instructor. Constantly sparring with his student, and possibly killing a couple along the way.

[Ritterin Sophia]

In the EU Sith recruitment can come from anywhere and it depends on what kind of Sith Lord is in charge.

During the Great Hyperspace War the Sith were born into the Order. During the Great Sith War and rule of Exar Kun they drew their numbers from the Krath cultists that had taken power in the Empress Teta System under Ulic Qel-Droma, both Qel-droma and Kun brought some Jedi comrades with them.

During the Mandalorian Darth Revan and Malak took numerous Jedi with them on their journey that resulted in them becoming Sith, under their rule Force sensative recruits would travel to training centers or a full trained Jedi could simply switch sides.

During the Dark Wars the Triumvirate recruited from what remained of Revan's Empire.

I'm not too familiar with the Sith Empire of the Great Galactic War & Cold War, since the game they appear in isn't out yet. However, from what I gather from the webcomic and articles they recruit from their holdings like the Sith Empire of the Great Hyperspace War did.

The Brotherhood of Darkness from the New Sith Wars drew their recruits initially from Jedi who had left the Order and then later picked up Force sensates when possible.

The Order of the Sith Lords (Banites) drew their recruits wherever they could, replacing them if they proved weaker than another potential apprentice. Their methods include kidnapping, recruiting former Jedi, and simple promises of power.

There are a number of Sith holdouts other than the Banites, the Prophets of the Darkside were founded by a failed apprentice of the Banites. The Lost Tribe are descendants of a crashed Sith Dreadnaught. The Disciples of Ragnos was a Sith Cult that drew their recruits from Imperial Remnant forces. Lumiya's Order drew her members from numerous sources; Flint was a Stormtrooper, Carnor Jax an Royal Guard Sovereign Protector, and of course Jacen Solo.

The next major Sith Order was The One Sith, their primary method of recruitment was from the progeny of existing Sith, they also recruited from outside but those not born Sith were always seen as inferior, and finally proselytization was a major part of the One Sith's methods as they wanted everyone to join their cult of the Dark Side.

[Darth Hoth]

I am completely unfamiliar with the Legacy comics, so what I say may not be applicable to your scenario.

Generally, different Sith have different philosophies. Some use primitive "magic" and call it such (Tales of the Jedi), some are self-consciously evil for evil's own sake (like the ridiculous Darth Bane, who was proud and happy for his Sith girlfriend when he knew she was "strong" enough to poison him to death), and some are big on hatred and revenge (Banite Sith mostly; e.g., Darth Maul, who was trained from infancy like a Jedi and thus the epitome of a crazy indoctrinated fucknut).

The most attractive Sith position I have seen, embraced by Vergere (and EU Palpatine, when not written Lucas-style like a cackling madman by KJA) is that good and evil are relative. There simply is no "dark side" as such. The Force itself has no "will" or religious attributes like the Jedi claim - it is merely a source of power for their supernatural abilities, and can thus be used dispassionately. In effect, they take a semi-scientific approach to the Force without Jedi superstition and consider it just another tool among others.

Elitism is also a big argument and appeal to Sithian philosophy (of the Palpatinian variety, at least); Palpatine and Dooku both considered themselves great men infinitely above their inferiors in the common, vulgar crowd, and thus better fit to rule. There are also overtones of Nietzschean superman, and transhumanism/transcendence in Palpatine's philosophies past Dark Empire. From the Code of the Sith: "Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall free me."

For training, once again there are different models. The more reasonable ones are ultra-disciplinarian and focused with extreme demands of self-control and willpower (but not necessarily "evil," or so I gather from what little we have of Palpatine's training and the DESB) while some stuff is just Comic Book Chaotic Stupid Evil bullshit of evil and backstabbery for the lulz (see KotOR and the first Bane book for especially egregious examples). I strongly suggest that you use the earlier model, but that is merely my personal preference.

[Solauren]

The best bet for a Sith Lord on an information age planet, if only looking for one apprentice, is to simply find a suitable mate, and breed one.

Failing that (for whatever reason), there is always someone looking for greater power. Businessman, politition, etc. Just finding one that would be suitable apprentice and heir, and then working together should be enough.

Really, the method is as suits the 'needs of the story'/Sith lord's current situation.

[Simon_Jester]

On average, given the size of the Jedi order, if you pick a random planet in Star Wars, there is probably no Force Sensitive living there- the Jedi had something like one to ten thousand members at a time with the entire galaxy to draw on.

Assuming a Force Sensitive exists on the planet, the Sith in question can probably find them without too much trouble.

[Knife]

I would also keep in mind that a Sith would want an apprentice for more than just having an apprentice. Assume a bigger reason than just to continue the line or anything like that. Whether that is dressed up as the Sith Lord senses destiney on the candidate, or foresees something favorable to him/her by taking the student, or even misreading such signs.

[Krisnack]

Thanks for moving the replies (and moving the topic). The Sith lord in question is a manipulator, although he could probably hold his own in a lightsaber fight if he had to. I'm trying to write him as pragmatic evil and not stupid evil (he won't use a Force choke when a mind trick will do, hell, he won't shy away from using the Light side if he needs to), however he can be ruthless when the situation calls for it.

He already knows who he wants for his apprentice (his future apprentice already has a rather big ego), the part where he approaches the person with the offer, and the training parts is what I'm having trouble writing.

Also, what would be a good name for the Sith lord? I tried running the word 'teacher' through Babelfish (using English to Dutch) and I god the word 'leraar' which I'm not very satisfied with.

[Ritterin Sophia]

The best bet for a Sith Lord on an information age planet, if only looking for one apprentice, is to simply find a suitable mate, and breed one.

According to the Power of the Jedi Sourcebook inheriting Force sensitivity is rare with special exceptions like Force bloodlines (like the Skywalker/Solo/Fel lineage) and species that evolved reliant upon the Force (for example the Miraluka).

[Solauren]

The best bet for a Sith Lord on an information age planet, if only looking for one apprentice, is to simply find a suitable mate, and breed one.

According to the Power of the Jedi Sourcebook inheriting Force sensitivity is rare with special exceptions like Force bloodlines (like the Skywalker/Solo/Fel lineage) and species that evolved reliant upon the Force (for example the Miraluka).

Given how little of the D20 System Star Wars has made it INTO canon, I'd take that with a grain of salt. (I say this as a fan of the system).

Force-bloodlines have to start somehow after all.

[Havok]

Thanks for moving the replies (and moving the topic). The Sith lord in question is a manipulator, although he could probably hold his own in a lightsaber fight if he had to. I'm trying to write him as pragmatic evil and not stupid evil (he won't use a Force choke when a mind trick will do, hell, he won't shy away from using the Light side if he needs to), however he can be ruthless when the situation calls for it.

Sounds like you are writing Palpatine.

He already knows who he wants for his apprentice (his future apprentice already has a rather big ego), the part where he approaches the person with the offer, and the training parts is what I'm having trouble writing.

Flip it. Have the character he wants go looking for the Sith Lord, volunteer his services/apprenticeship.

Also, what would be a good name for the Sith lord? I tried running the word 'teacher' through Babelfish (using English to Dutch) and I god the word 'leraar' which I'm not very satisfied with.

Dude, just make something up that sounds cool, then give it a quick back story. Or don't. Let the readers use their imaginations.

[Teleros]

Also, what would be a good name for the Sith lord?

A lot of Darths come from various English words:

Maul
Insidious
Invader
Plague
Desolate
Nihilism
Ruin
Bane
Rampage
Tyrant
Reaver
Carnage
Tenebrous

Take some suitable word, mess around with it a bit and hey presto.

[Havok]

Yeah.. that is the lame way. Lame when George did it, lame when every EU author did it.

Maul is from Malicious too IIRC.

[Vympel]

You don't really need to take 'maul' from anywhere in the first place, it's an evil word in and of itself (i.e. mauled to death by a lion).

[Krisnack]

Thanks for moving the replies (and moving the topic). The Sith lord in question is a manipulator, although he could probably hold his own in a lightsaber fight if he had to. I'm trying to write him as pragmatic evil and not stupid evil (he won't use a Force choke when a mind trick will do, hell, he won't shy away from using the Light side if he needs to), however he can be ruthless when the situation calls for it.

Sounds like you are writing Palpatine.

Yeah, I suspose he is a lot like Palps behavior-wise, although he's a good bit more cautious. Behavior wise, however, is a different story. He's not really the type to have any 'unlimited power' moments.

He already knows who he wants for his apprentice (his future apprentice already has a rather big ego), the part where he approaches the person with the offer, and the training parts is what I'm having trouble writing.

Flip it. Have the character he wants go looking for the Sith Lord, volunteer his services/apprenticeship.

That's probably a good idea, but it would require rewriting a good chunk of the premise.

[Ritterin Sophia]

Given how little of the D20 System Star Wars has made it INTO canon, I'd take that with a grain of salt. (I say this as a fan of the system).

Force-bloodlines have to start somehow after all.

If by 'how little' you mean 'all of it'. Mayhaps we, and by 'we' I mean 'you' in case I'm not being clear enough, forgot the canon policy?

[Stofsk]

I like Darths Revan and Malak, they actually sound like the names they had rather than ANGRY WORDS.

I am Darth SIDIOUS... because I am INSIDIOUS MUAHAHAHA... have you met my friend Darth Tyrannous?

Super lame.

[Ritterin Sophia]

You don't really need to take 'maul' from anywhere in the first place, it's an evil word in and of itself (i.e. mauled to death by a lion).

Yeah, it's pretty much been beaten to death how Maul was intended to be Palpatine's extremely well behaved attack dog.

As for name inspirations you do know Revan and Malak's names come from 'Raven' and 'Malice', right Stofsk.

[Eleas]

As for name inspirations you do know Revan and Malak's names come from 'Raven' and 'Malice', right Stofsk.

As opposed to "Revenant" and "Malachi", both which actually fit reasonably phonetically? Also, if you derive "Malak" from the Latin word for "jaw", both names make sense in the given context... rather like Darth Nihilus and Darth Sion, come to think of it.

[Stofsk]

As for name inspirations you do know Revan and Malak's names come from 'Raven' and 'Malice', right Stofsk.

The writers of KotOR actually said that? Malak and malice only share the first syllable, although conceded that the prefix 'mal' is used to describe bad intent or illegal acts. But even so, the real life name 'Malcolm' is a name, and 'Malak' sounds like an ordinary name. And I didn't make the connection between 'raven' and 'Revan'.

Even if the writers chose those names deliberately to make that kind of connection (although why 'Raven=Revan'? Beyond sounding good), is that really on the same page as calling yourself 'Darth Sidious', 'Darth Nihlus', 'Darth Traya', Darth Maul, Darth Tyrannous, Darth BANE for christ's sake (he's the BANE of the Jedi lol)?

[Ritterin Sophia]

As for name inspirations you do know Revan and Malak's names come from 'Raven' and 'Malice', right Stofsk.

As opposed to "Revenant" and "Malachi", both which actually fit reasonably phonetically? Also, if you derive "Malak" from the Latin word for "jaw", both names make sense in the given context... rather like Darth Nihilus and Darth Sion, come to think of it.

Yes. I was wrong about Revan though, his comes from 'revenant'.

[Havok]

Yeah, like I said. Lame.

[Darth Yan]

i heard that it came from "revanche" which means to forcibly conquer and annex. It honestly suits him.

[Havok]

I love the inability of EU writers to base the names on anything made up in a Sci-Fi fictional universe. Oh no, it has to be based on some evil meaning word.