SG Atlantis/WH40k Force Substitution: IoM on Atlantis

[Crom]

By some random act of Q, the Atlantis Expedition is replaced with a team of Space Marines (w/ one Librarian), Techpriests & Inquisition (Ordos Xenos) forces. They can dial back to the WH40k universe but only if they have a fully powered ZPM.

How do they handle being stuck on an alien space ship? If they discover that the Atlanteans appear human, would they be more willing to use it? Do they come into conflict with the Wraith, Vanir, Asurans or Genii?

[Aaron]

Depends, are the SM's Deathwatch? If not then they aren't particularly required to obey the Inquisitor.

The Techpriest will most certainly want to examine Atlantis.

Knowing what abilities the Librarians has would be nice. And the amount of power a ZPM puts out. Oh and by team are we talking squad?

[Crom]

Depends, are the SM's Deathwatch? If not then they aren't particularly required to obey the Inquisitor.

Yes, let's say they are Deathwatch, that would make sense.

Knowing what abilities the Librarians has would be nice. And the amount of power a ZPM puts out. Oh and by team are we talking squad?

I was thinking something along the lines of a squad of Deathwatch SM. I'd also assume that the Librarian is an average representative of his type, I'm guessing somewhat on par with Ravenor, perhaps. If we're talking in-game type powers, let's say Smite & Machine Curse.

[adam_grif]

If they can get their hands on a SGverse hyperdrive I'm sure they'd be thrilled about the warp-less travel and increased speed. Lantean or Asgard drives particularly. But unless they had ATA genes or something, and a miraculous understanding of Lantean, they aren't going to be able to do much with Atlantis short of tearing it apart and studying the components.

[NecronLord]

By some random act of Q, the Atlantis Expedition is replaced with a team of Space Marines (w/ one Librarian), Techpriests & Inquisition (Ordos Xenos) forces. They can dial back to the WH40k universe but only if they have a fully powered ZPM.

How do they handle being stuck on an alien space ship? If they discover that the Atlanteans appear human, would they be more willing to use it? Do they come into conflict with the Wraith, Vanir, Asurans or Genii?

"The Atlantis Stargate was the one and only link back to Earth [Terra in Ancient] from this galaxy, and those who remained used it to return to that world that was once home. There the last survivors of Atlantis lived out the remainder of their lives. This city was left to slumber, in the hope that our kind would one day return."

Yeah, they're just going to assume it was humans, and that humans are older than they previously thought.

The Genii will be incorporated, and the other three will die horribly, maybe except the Asurans if they get their act together and blow the place up from orbit.

[adam_grif]

How do you think the marines will fare against the Wraith? I don't mean in hand to hand combat, but the Wraith have cruisers, hives etc. Do the marines have anything comparable to use on this expedition? If they have any teleportation gear I suppose they could teleport on board (from where on out it would be a horrific slaughter until they ran out of ammo, and when they do, it will become a regular slaughter), but if it works anything like beaming then they might be able to block it like they did to stop the asgard beaming nuke thing. Do wraith stunners do anything against marines in full armor? Obviously the stunners can go through clothing, but we have no idea how it would fare against their armor.

The Stargateverse humans are uncannily good at reverse engineering tech in miraculously short periods of time. They also have an understanding of Lanteans, their language and a bit of their history. In addition, they have the Daedalus class ships that can arrive in Pegasus after a few weeks of cruise without ZPM power.

I get the feeling that the Marines would get wiped out by the Wraith, because even if they can dial home for a milisecond and do a burst transmission ala Rodney in S1, there's no way the cavalry could get there in time.

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

I doubt the ATA gene will prove much of an obstacle, if the Techpriest contingent includes magi biologis or genetors or the like. Genetic manipulation is old hat in the 41st millennium. Heck, the techpriests could probably fool the Ancient tech without any genetic tomfoolery if worse comes to worst... it's what they do, after all.

[Serafina]

Given that tech-priests are ALSO really, really good at reverse-engineering, that should not be too much of a problem - specifically since we know the reverse-engineering capabilities of (RL)earth and can therefore conclude that this tech was not too difficult.
Assuming that they have specialists for Archeo-tech (specializing in ancient artifacts) and xeno-tech (alien), they have well-versed specialists for such problems.

Genetic keys are nothing special in 40K - they are a common safety feature (available even for gang leaders in underhives), and while they are considered safe against any "normal" foe, it is explicitly mentioned that the Adeptus Arbites and Mechanicus can crack them with ease, should they be bothered to do so.
If they can find out what gene is required, they should be able to just implant it into themself or some servitors. However, i do not know by what means they could find out which gene they need.
It is possible that they can crack it otherwise, but i have nothing solid to present here.

Meanwhile, 40K has a much higher techbase than Earth.
Their power production is on equal footing with Star Wars and regulary employed in small-scale devices, too.
The different technology might compose problems, but they are generally able to deal with highly alien tech unless it involves necron dimensional technology (anything necron, basically) or Eldar warp technology.

Question:
How much energy does a ZPM actualyl put out?
Depending on the answer, it might just be feasible for 40K to procude the necessary energy by other means.

[SapphireFox]

Would they continue to use Atlantis after they learn of the ascended ancients, the ancients might seem a little too close to warp daemons to be comfortable and we all know what IoM thinks of them.

Also would the tech-priests be able to maintain and/or make new equipment with the resources of Atlantis? If so how because I don't think Atlantis came with asgard beaming tech out of the box as it were.

[Serafina]

Since every capable psyker can detect warp influence, and the whole area should have none, they most likely would continue to use it. Particulary since they should have used it until that point for quite some time without corruption.

Sheer warp influence is nothing the Imperium is unwilling to use anyway - after all, all their ships travel trough the warp, and several technologies are also using the warp (altough to a far lesser and cruder extent than the Eldar).

[Simon_Jester]

Given that tech-priests are ALSO really, really good at reverse-engineering...

I don't disagree with this at all, but I'd like to hear more of your reasoning, because I'm curious.

[Darksider]

Given that tech-priests are ALSO really, really good at reverse-engineering...

I don't disagree with this at all, but I'd like to hear more of your reasoning, because I'm curious.

Even if the tech-priests are of the dogmatic moron variant, (which are apparently rarer than I used to believe they are) SG-verse tech seems to be designed so that a retarded monkey can reverse-engineer it, Ancient tech particularly so.

[Batman]

How well equipped would they be to DO that reverse-engineering though? The SGA team, while working from a generally far lower tech base, were already familiar with Ancient tech and had the equipment to interface with and analyze it readily available. They also knew of the need for and had to a point available the Ancient gene. All the 40K forces know going in is that for SOME reason they can't get half the stuff to work, they don't know how to read the displays on the stuff they CAN get to work and depending on HOW Q dropped them there don't even know the Stargate is the means to go places. SGA knew a lot going in and were equipped to find out more. I do admittedly know very little about 40K but I doubt the forces specified so far ROUTINELY carry the kind of equipment needed to be able to setup a proper Atlantis outpost and figure out how all those gadgets work/why some of them don't and how to go about fixing it. For example while ZPMs are pretty small fry by Wars and thus presumably 40K standards (IIRC NecronLord once calced that single to double figure MT/s level, somebody more knowledgeable feel free to weigh in) I don't think SM forces nor the mentioned support carry something like that with them as a matter of habit.
My apologies to the OPer if that was not the intent, but from what has been WRITTEN it looks like the 40K forces are dropped onto Atlantis with nothing but the gear they have on their person, and I doubt that's enough to properly set up an Atlantis mission. They'd be initially invincible in infantry combat/against Dart attacks (possibly excepting the transporter scoop and even then the Wraith are going to have one hell of a time subduing a Space Marine once they let him out of the pattern buffer ) given the things can be downed by modern world smallarms fire but that's about it. Setting up an outpost the way the SGA teams did, NOT.
If there is an unstated understanding that they are properly equipped to do so and/or DO routinely carry that kind of equipment with them to begin with, this is naturally a nonissue.

[Serafina]

Well, i think it is reasonable to assume that they start out with some equipment.

But either way, a Techpriest can be pretty much a walking machine shop, capable of both heavy lifting and very fine manipulation, along with several sophisticated sensors, EM-modules and gravitic manipulators (repulsorlift-like).
He can also interface with any electric current and manipulate it in various ways.
While those things are not available to all Adeptus Mechanicus members, most or all of these abilities can be found on experienced and/or senior members - and i think it is reasonable to assume that those are sent to Atlantis.

Regarding the language:
Ancient is not really all that different from human language.
If they have a high-ranking member of the Ordo Dialogis, is think they should be able to decipher it within at least a month, if not faster.
While lower-ranking Sisters of the Ordo Dialogis are "only" speaking several alien language (Eldar, Demigurd, Ork, Tau and more), higher-ranking members are accustomed to translating new (or, in case of ruins, old/dead) languages.
Given that Ancient is close enough to "human" language and that they can often decipher languages which have been seperated from the rest of the Imperium for thousands of years, i think we can assume that they have the ability to translate it.

As far as any boobytraps/accidents are concerned, if we are talking about an Explorator-team (typically on the search for STK-technology, most suited for the szenario), they have lots of experience with those. Travelling members of the Adeptus Mechanicus generally have such experiences, as do Space Marines and Inquisitors.

If ZPMs are truly only in the MT-level, IF they can bring any kind of specialized equipment, they should be easily able to produce it.
Otherwise, they would have to be lucky to have a converter beam (sp?) - basically a matter/energy converter of some sort (the mechanics are completely unknown, so it is completely possible that the following is wrong).
Given adequate fuel, this man-portable device should be able to power at least some of the systems of Atlantis.

I don't disagree with this at all, but I'd like to hear more of your reasoning, because I'm curious.

Techpriests (and, to a smaller extent, Tech Marines) are well known for their ability to reverse-engineer equipment.
Magos Errants are regulary sent out to explore yet unknown technology aboard the vessels of Rogue Traders or on small Adeptus Mechanicus expeditions. They typically manage to understand/research several artifacts during their journeys, which are typically about five years ship-time in lenght (of course, this can vary widely).
Given that they often do so on their own and only with a small amount of equipment (not unlike this szenario), their skills are highly applicable here - particulary since Ancient-equipment seems to be highly accessible, unlike most of the stuff they are dealing with.

Furthermore, we are mostly talking about activating existing systems, not rebuilding them. I would actually expect a mid-ranking techpriest to be able to do so, and those are quite common (typically half a dozen or more in every Guard regiment).
As far as weapons go, they are far better of with producing/maintaing more of their own weapons - a Bolter would rip everything we saw in SG to pieces (well, everything the infantry had to deal with, of course ). Given the generaly simplicity of 40K-technology, this should not be much of a problem once they have assembled some machinery (which they could do without extra equipment if something resembling the necessary parts can be salvaged).
Heavier energy weapons exceed the output of every infantry-carried weapon we see, tough the usual anti-energy-weapon effects in SG may disfavor their usage.

A comparable situation would be the usage of the Blackstone Fortresses.
While they were never able to fully figure them out, this was mostly due to a lack of the proper activation keys (which Abbadon later found and used) and them being warp-based technology, which generally tends to mess around with the laws of physics.
Either way, even with those limitations, they managed to turn the Blackstone Fortesses into powerfull space stations, approaching way more massive Ramilies Spacestations in firepower. They were able to tap into a highly alien energy system and use it for a task for which it was never intended, all without any convenient easy-to-use technology.


Summary:
Tech Priests (especially high-ranking ones) are accustumed to figuring out alien technology. Given that Atlantis could be used by humans without a tech-base even approaching that of the IoM, i think we can assume that the technology is quite user friendly.
Other specialists should be quite adapt in figuring out language and cultural implications - again, they have people who have done that for hundreds of years, using knowledge based on millenia.
Power output can be matched or even exceeded by 40K if they can bring in or construct heavy gear - this is mostly dependant on the initial szenario and the availabilty of resources.
Even basic (=unaugmented, but still propably elite - say, cadian) soldiers should be able to match the combat capability demonstrated by the SG-humans. Augmented soldiers like the Skitaari should be able to exceed that - and never mind Space Marines. Also, most Techpriests can be highly dangerous combatants on their own, if only due to all their gadgets build into their bodies.

[Serafina]

Oh, and i would suggest the following forces for the 40K-team. They are based on an small Borderworld Explorator Team, typically employed to search potentially dangerous worlds for usefull technologies.

2 high-ranking Techpriests (Magos or equivalent) along with 4 mid-rank Techpriests, accompanied by a couple of Servitors (say, 2 per Techpriest, making for a total of 12).
They are accompanied by Skitarii - i would say two Squads are appropriate, making it a total of eighteen.
1 Inquisitor of the Ordo Xenos with some appropriate mid-range psionik abilities, accompanied by 1 Sister of the Ordo Dialogis (Prioris or higher), one Adept and one Acolyte.
The Inquisitor has requested the help of an Deathwatch Killteam - one Squad of five Space Marines and one Librarian.

Each one carries high-quality personal equipment appropriate to their rank and mission.
I think about a metric ton of additional equipment should be appropriate - eough to set up a machine shop with a bit of work and salvaging, but not enough to go nuts and build a starship-sized plasma reactor.

Imn total, the team counts 34 members (not counting Servitors, which are not really full members).
Feel free to adjust any of those numbers, particulary add/remove soldiers or the additional equipment

[Aaron]

If ZPMs are truly only in the MT-level, IF they can bring any kind of specialized equipment, they should be easily able to produce it.
Otherwise, they would have to be lucky to have a converter beam (sp?) - basically a matter/energy converter of some sort (the mechanics are completely unknown, so it is completely possible that the following is wrong).
Given adequate fuel, this man-portable device should be able to power at least some of the systems of Atlantis.

SM power armour is sometimes described as being powered by a small fusion generator, or fuel cells, depending on the author and the higher Tech Priests often have a servo harness capable of some powerful feats as well, so I imagine they have a similar power source. A tech priest may be able to daisy chain all those together to get the power required.

[Serafina]

If ZPMs are truly only in the MT-level, IF they can bring any kind of specialized equipment, they should be easily able to produce it.
Otherwise, they would have to be lucky to have a converter beam (sp?) - basically a matter/energy converter of some sort (the mechanics are completely unknown, so it is completely possible that the following is wrong).
Given adequate fuel, this man-portable device should be able to power at least some of the systems of Atlantis.

SM power armour is sometimes described as being powered by a small fusion generator, or fuel cells, depending on the author and the higher Tech Priests often have a servo harness capable of some powerful feats as well, so I imagine they have a similar power source. A tech priest may be able to daisy chain all those together to get the power required.

Actually, a Techpriest himself has a substantial power source built into him/herself to power all those gadgets - they can fling metal bars around with their hands, shoot lightning (i kid you not ) and levitate themself - the power has to come from somewhere. They can also use it to power other machinery.

However, i doubt that they or the fuel cells of a Servo armor can even get close to the power output of a ZPM until someone smarter than me shows me numbers that say that they can.

[Aaron]

Thats what I said, wasn't it?

[Batman]

Well, i think it is reasonable to assume that they start out with some equipment.

That was what I was getting at. It's pretty unreasonable to assume they can do the mission WITHOUT some additional equipment beyond the stuff they carry as a matter of course.

But either way, a Techpriest can be pretty much a walking machine shop, capable of both heavy lifting and very fine manipulation, along with several sophisticated sensors, EM-modules and gravitic manipulators (repulsorlift-like).
He can also interface with any electric current and manipulate it in various ways.
While those things are not available to all Adeptus Mechanicus members, most or all of these abilities can be found on experienced and/or senior members - and i think it is reasonable to assume that those are sent to Atlantis.

If we assume they actually send something approximating the original SGA team, absolutely. That's all I was trying to get across. The OP more or less said a handful of SMs and supporting forces without ever specifying which resources if any they'd have available.

Regarding the language:
Ancient is not really all that different from human language.
If they have a high-ranking member of the Ordo Dialogis, is think they should be able to decipher it within at least a month, if not faster.

If they have SUPPLIES for a month. If we assume they HAVE supplies for a month I have no problem with that.

While lower-ranking Sisters of the Ordo Dialogis are "only" speaking several alien language (Eldar, Demigurd, Ork, Tau and more), higher-ranking members are accustomed to translating new (or, in case of ruins, old/dead) languages.
Given that Ancient is close enough to "human" language and that they can often decipher languages which have been seperated from the rest of the Imperium for thousands of years, i think we can assume that they have the ability to translate it.

I'm no linguist and again don't know WH40K very well but how much do the know about ANCIENT TERRAN LANGUAGES, say, a couple thousand years BC? SG DOES. Again, I'm no linguist and thus can't really tell how much if at all that would hinder the 40K force but I DO see this as considerably handicapping them if they DON'T.

As far as any boobytraps/accidents are concerned, if we are talking about an Explorator-team (typically on the search for STK-technology, most suited for the szenario), they have lots of experience with those. Travelling members of the Adeptus Mechanicus generally have such experiences, as do Space Marines and Inquisitors.

It's been a while but I don't think Atlantis was boobytrapped all that much as opposed to the SGA team (especially one Rodney McKay) running roughshot over the safeties that WERE installed to make the installations that WERE potentially dangerous NOT so.

[NecronLord]

IIRC NecronLord once calced that single to double figure MT/s level, somebody more knowledgeable feel free to weigh in)

That calc can safely be increased to double figures given more recent (and better) scalings of Atlantis. The IoM has a 23 Mt/sec reactor of reasonable size detailed in the Third Edition rulebook. Which amusingly has a duration of 2e56 hours, though that's probably bullshit.

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

I'm no linguist and again don't know WH40K very well but how much do the know about ANCIENT TERRAN LANGUAGES, say, a couple thousand years BC? SG DOES. Again, I'm no linguist and thus can't really tell how much if at all that would hinder the 40K force but I DO see this as considerably handicapping them if they DON'T.

That's what the Inquisitorial team is for. The OP didn't specify what that includes (is it an Inquisitor and his retinue? His entire power base? Troops? A team of acolytes?), but agents of the Inquisition encompass a wide range of specialists and experts. As mentioned, this can include Sisters of the Orders Diologus (linguistics and cryptology experts), autosavants, lexmechanics, and all manner of individuals with the exact set of skills one might need to crack an unknown language. Instead of laptops and tablet PCs, the 40K forces have their autosavants and lexmechanics to crunch numbers so they're not short on any needed computing power either.

[Batman]

Which is why asked for more knowledgeable people to weigh in
As for 23 MT/sec, assuming a matter annihilation efficiency of 50% that should translate into slightly over 2 kg/sec of fuel consumption so yeah, that's likely pretty much out for reasonably portable power sources IN REAL WORLD TERMS. SG gets around that by cheating. Does WH40K?

[adam_grif]

How are they going to translate Ancient with no points of reference? How did Jackson do it?

[Batman]

Jackson DID have a point of reference. All those ancient Earth languages that WERE based off the Ancient language.

[adam_grif]

Ok. I shouldn't be surprised, after all every sentient species in the galaxy apparently speaks English fluently.