I AM SO FUCKING PISSED OFF AND NO ONE CAN HELP!!

[Durandal]

If his parents are like that, take it to the principal. He or she is in a good position to deliver a good ultimatum.

Of course, you could always just fail his ass.

[Connor MacLeod]

If his parents are like that, take it to the principal. He or she is in a good position to deliver a good ultimatum.

Of course, you could always just fail his ass.

Or get a group of SD.net folk to lay a collective smackdown on his ass. I'm sure Zaia could get quite a posse assembled.

[Zaia]

Wall of Ignorance. Anyone who has dealt with the WCOTC can tell you how impossible it is to reason with a racist/sexist.

Oh, a friend of mine is a die-hard fundie (do they come any other way, come to think of it?), so I know first-hand anyway...

Probably had to be done, but its rather obvious he's operating under his own delusional belief.

Yup.

Have you thought about talking to the principal or other faculty? I mean, if this student is giving you trouble, might there be other female teachers he is giving grief to? If so, then you might be able to get something done as a group.

Ahh, yes, the administration. In case you missed it, since my admin basically just expects me to hand out good grades because I teach 'just band,' there isn't any support there. At all. And the only other teacher who has even the smallest idea what I'm dealing with is the choral teacher, who is absolutely clueless and gets walked all over by her kids every day. The rest of the faculty has absolutely no idea how drastically different the way the music classroom has to be run, so the only thing they could tell me is if he picks on his any of his other teachers. Problem is, he's got some of the worst teachers in the school (both male and female) so he just tramples over them. And they let him. He has a strong personality, but no one tries but me to keep him in check, which is why it's so hard. I'm going up against him, my entire administration, my entire faculty, his parents, and his peers (because he's such a jokester, he's got friends everywhere) every time there's a confrontation. I keep winning the battles, but it doesn't seem to matter because the battles never end. And they won't, until he graduates. Next year.

And if not that, There's still the recorder.

No, there are the percussion parts I've assigned to him. He will play them, play them well, and he will keep his fucking mouth SHUT while he does so. The end.

Hmm. Superiority complex and possible Megalomania. That might explain where he gets it from, if his parents are pushing/expecting him to be "great".. If he gets treated like a demigod at home, he no doubt expects others to treat him so (and would consequently look down on anyone who didnt meet his standards or perceptions.)

Oh, I know this to be absolutely true; I know what he expects of me. I just won't comply. Hence the clashing between us, see.

Again, looking into whether or not he has similar conflicts with other teachers (especially women) - and possibly other students, might be fruitful. Does he have many friends or is he in conflict with his peers often?

Oh, heaps of friends who laugh at his rude, dismissive jokes. They know better than to laugh at them during my class, though. Most of them, anyway.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not actually a mean psycho-bitch in the classroom. The fun me that's usually here on this board is, for the most part, the same me who teaches (minus the swearing, flirtations, and multiple sexual references). Most of my kids love me because I'm a lot of fun, but if a kid treats me with disrespect, the gloves are off. My kids know what the rules are, and when they break them, there's time to serve. The problem comes in when what I do in the classroom isn't backed up at home. The parents send the message that my word means nothing, so the kid learns that he doesn't have to listen to me. Plain as day. The trouble is defeating it.

Got a choir class? Make him sing choir.

No. Even if I did, I refuse to turn making any kind of music into a punishment. That sends the complete opposite message of everything that I represent as an educator.

Maybe you'll get lucky and he'll ge tmolested by a priest.

................If I was a better mood, I'm sure I would have laughed at this. *half smile*

According to what you said, he's probably got a superiority complex reinforced by his parents and probably feels a need to remind others of it.

He spends so much time 'reminding' people that there is literally no chance for them to ever forget in the first place.

[Connor MacLeod]

Ahh, yes, the administration. In case you missed it, since my admin basically just expects me to hand out good grades because I teach 'just band,' there isn't any support there. At all. And the only other teacher who has even the smallest idea what I'm dealing with is the choral teacher, who is absolutely clueless and gets walked all over by her kids every day. The rest of the faculty has absolutely no idea how drastically different the way the music classroom has to be run, so the only thing they could tell me is if he picks on his any of his other teachers. Problem is, he's got some of the worst teachers in the school (both male and female) so he just tramples over them. And they let him. He has a strong personality, but no one tries but me to keep him in check, which is why it's so hard. I'm going up against him, my entire administration, my entire faculty, his parents, and his peers (because he's such a jokester, he's got friends everywhere) every time there's a confrontation. I keep winning the battles, but it doesn't seem to matter because the battles never end. And they won't, until he graduates. Next year.

Ah. And if he knows this, no doubt that also contributes, but also undermines your authority (you can't really *do* anything to him and expect support from the administration.)

I may have missed the answer, but I was wondering if you have talked to any other female teachers who might have him in their classes. Have they had this much trouble with him, or just you?

No, there are the percussion parts I've assigned to him. He will play them, play them well, and he will keep his fucking mouth SHUT while he does so. The end.

I knew you had a Dominant streak in you. Call me Psychic.

So then if not the recorder, then the whip

Oh, I know this to be absolutely true; I know what he expects of me. I just won't comply. Hence the clashing between us, see.

See the Domme comment above. Whips work wonders.

Oh, heaps of friends who laugh at his rude, dismissive jokes. They know better than to laugh at them during my class, though. Most of them, anyway.

Sound more like passive flunkies he can intimidate/dominate into accepting his authority and to flatter him endlessly. In short, noone of substance. What I meant was are there any intellectually independent people who have conflicts with him, or does he just manage to attract the weak-willed?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not actually a mean psycho-bitch in the classroom. The fun me that's usually here on this board is, for the most part, the same me who teaches (minus the swearing, flirtations, and multiple sexual references). Most of my kids love me because I'm a lot of fun, but if a kid treats me with disrespect, the gloves are off. My kids know what the rules are, and when they break them, there's time to serve. The problem comes in when what I do in the classroom isn't backed up at home. The parents send the message that my word means nothing, so the kid learns that he doesn't have to listen to me. Plain as day. The trouble is defeating it.

Again, look at Darkstar. The Wall of Ignorance cannot be breached. This kid sounds like he's wearing a Trojan-grade WoI.

No. Even if I did, I refuse to turn making any kind of music into a punishment. That sends the complete opposite message of everything that I represent as an educator.

Momentary lapses of weakness can be forgiven. You're only human. And he's pushing it.

................If I was a better mood, I'm sure I would have laughed at this. *half smile*

I went to a catholic school. The joke never went over well there either (maybe thats because we had priests running the music program...)

*hands you another cookie*

[Kuja]

Ok, where to begin....?

1) I have already wasted some of my extremely valuable rehearsal time demonstrating how I play leaps and bounds better than him, and he is still insistent about how I obviously am inferior due to my sex. It's not that I haven't tried; he just won't accept it. And I won't give up any more of my practice time to indulge him and his delusions.

Agreed, don't bother. It'll just eat up time and give him the attention he wants.

2) If I play music without percussion, not only will that be a poor reflection on me as a teacher for punishing the other kids for this one kid's behaviour, but it will also make the entire ensemble suffer because an entire section will be missing. Besides, do you think they'd be easier to control if they had nothing to work on? They'd be insane every single day! It's be a free-for-all! There's absolutely no way, because the fact that in order to prepare for the District and State Band Festivals, all the pieces have to meet certain criteria, one of which being that all sections get utilized.

Beleive me, Zaia, punishing a section might seem nasty, but it will work. When one of out trumpet players acted up, the director decided to makes us play a song with almost NO trumpet (it starred the t-bones instead, yeeha!). The whole section got pissed at the kid and he never stepped out of line again.

3) If I was to punish this punk by saying, 'You have to play the triangle until I break you,' that turns playing the triangle into a punishment. I can't make some percussion instruments rewards and others punishments (besides the fact that it isn't as easy as it looks, if you play it correctly, anyway). Not to mention the fact that sometimes the accessory parts are more challenging than other parts like snare drum or tympani.

Agreed. And forcing him to play a certain instument makes it too personal, a 'me against you' kind of thing, and that won't be good in the long run.

4) Of course I've tried talking to his parents; they think he's a hilarious kid who everyone just takes too seriously. It's 'just Dave,' that's all. His parents think he's got so much talent that he shouldn't be expected to keep the same rules as everyone else, so when I talk to them about him, they accept the fact that he's constantly in trouble because I 'misunderstand' him and all his greatness. Yes, the kid has some raw talent, but if he doesnt learn to shut the fuck up and listen to what people have to teach him, he's never going to go anywhere. Only just today did I talk to his mother, and she said, 'Just think, a few years down the road when Dave's famous and you can say 'I knew that kid back when...'' I physically had to bite my lip to keep from laughing in her face; in the real world, if you have a professional playing gig and you say one word more than necessary, you're fucking tossed out, in the middle of a phrase if need be. Dave isn't going to be famous until he learns to shut his hole, and I don't see that day coming around anytime soon.

Oy mein gott. I hate parents like this. You know what? Let 'em keep beleiveing that, because when he gets to college, he'll get tossed out on his ass for acting up. And serves the little bastard right.

5) Yes, his grade is affected by his antics. I've actually been getting shit from my administrators because I had kids getting D's and F's in band because I held onto my grading rubric that I handed out at the beginning of the year. The thing that says, 'If you do this, this and this, you get an A. If you do this and this, you get...' Yeah. Too many kids think they can fuck around during band because it's a bullshit class. Well, it's not like that in my class. They have to earn their fucking A.

GOOD FOR YOU. I'm glad you've decided to stick to your guns. If kids screw around, they deserve bad grades, and if parents try to make you change them, remind them that the state has certified you fit to assign these grades, and do they have such ability?

6) This kid requires attention from everyone, all the time. The only way I'm special in this is because he makes a point to give me hard time about the fact that I'm a chick and I do what he does, only better. I don't think he's got a crush on me, I think I threaten him and he doesn't know what to do about it.

Try ignoring him. Every time he pipes uo with some comment or whatever, just breeze by and keep talking. If he gets mad, remind him that this is a school class, and he is excpected to behave just as he would in any other classroom.

7) Giving him a solo would enable him to show off AND would tell his parents that I think he deserves a solo. He most definitely does NOT.

I think that's a good idea. However, try assigning a difficult solo for lessons, if he fucks it up, you can put him in his place.

I don't let my kids choose their parts; I choose them. If I let them choose their own parts, they would never learn any new instruments because they're all pussified little shits with no balls.

This is how my band directors operated, and I think its a good way of doing things.

Hmmm, that's all I can think of for right now.... Today was better, but only because I went into it knowing that it couldn't be any worse. And as much as it may suck right now, Finale is what my original arrangement is on, so no matter what you guys may suggest I change it to, I need to figure it out on Finale. There no fucking way I'm re-entering it all into another program...

Well, if the music isn't ready in time, you can always blame it (rightfully) on the computer.

Oh yeah. Hope y'all had a lovely Valentine's Day.

*hug* I hope things get better, Z. Take care.

[Kuja]

Have you thought about talking to the principal or other faculty? I mean, if this student is giving you trouble, might there be other female teachers he is giving grief to? If so, then you might be able to get something done as a group.

Ahh, yes, the administration. In case you missed it, since my admin basically just expects me to hand out good grades because I teach 'just band,' there isn't any support there. At all. And the only other teacher who has even the smallest idea what I'm dealing with is the choral teacher, who is absolutely clueless and gets walked all over by her kids every day. The rest of the faculty has absolutely no idea how drastically different the way the music classroom has to be run, so the only thing they could tell me is if he picks on his any of his other teachers. Problem is, he's got some of the worst teachers in the school (both male and female) so he just tramples over them. And they let him. He has a strong personality, but no one tries but me to keep him in check, which is why it's so hard. I'm going up against him, my entire administration, my entire faculty, his parents, and his peers (because he's such a jokester, he's got friends everywhere) every time there's a confrontation. I keep winning the battles, but it doesn't seem to matter because the battles never end. And they won't, until he graduates. Next year.

Simple technique: remind the administrator that this kid is getting a credit for this class. Thus, he is excpected to BEHAVE and WORK, just like any other class requires him to, even if the other teachers don't stand up to him. Also remind them that you are fully qualified to teach music, and you know how a person should and shouldn't behave. I'm sure it won't be pleasant, but it has to be done.

No, there are the percussion parts I've assigned to him. He will play them, play them well, and he will keep his fucking mouth SHUT while he does so. The end.[/quote[

This is a good, fairm, fair stance. DO NOT back down from this.

Oh, I know this to be absolutely true; I know what he expects of me. I just won't comply. Hence the clashing between us, see.

Remind him that you are not his mother. You do not clean his clothes. You do not cook his food. Thus, if he wants good attention and approval, he had better shape up.

Oh, heaps of friends who laugh at his rude, dismissive jokes. They know better than to laugh at them during my class, though. Most of them, anyway.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not actually a mean psycho-bitch in the classroom. The fun me that's usually here on this board is, for the most part, the same me who teaches (minus the swearing, flirtations, and multiple sexual references). Most of my kids love me because I'm a lot of fun, but if a kid treats me with disrespect, the gloves are off. My kids know what the rules are, and when they break them, there's time to serve. The problem comes in when what I do in the classroom isn't backed up at home. The parents send the message that my word means nothing, so the kid learns that he doesn't have to listen to me. Plain as day. The trouble is defeating it.

Again: you are the qualified one here. Remind parents that you didn't go through years of college and student teaching for nothing. And bad grades will make a kid realize that s/he DOES have to listen to you.

[haas mark]

Hey Finale's great and all... but when you start a new one, for god's sake, put it on NoteWorthy Composer!!

[Zaia]

How much weight do you think I have as a teacher when most of the parents look down on me because I'm not even 25 yet? Check that, make it parents and administrators. They, the administrators, have gone behind my back in the past month to pull two kids (at different times) out of my class because their parents bitched about the bad grades they were getting. Did admin back me up and say that the kid deserved the bad grade? Did they bother to look through my gradebook to see WHY the fuckin' kid got a bad grade? No. Admin yanked the kids out of my class, WITHOUT FUCKING TALKING TO ME FIRST, and stuck them in new classes for the semester. The kids were had been in those classes for AN ENTIRE WEEK before I found out BY ACCIDENT that they had their schedules changed and approved by administration.

It's ridiculous. What else can I do when I'm completely alone like this? I think I want to go back to temping...

[Connor MacLeod]

Do it. Dare ya.

[Connor MacLeod]

actually, scratch that. Consider this:

For what they're paying you (which I am guessing completely out of the blue probably isnt that good) is it worth teh headaches and stress you endure (which appear to be substantial?)

If not, then maybe changing jobs isnt a bad idea.

[InnerBrat]

My sister's a 25year old teacher (biology). And they do get put through infinite shit. It's bloody annoying when the people you work with a)don't really wnat to be there b)don't realise how important it is.

[hugs Zaia] You keep at him, babe, you'll break him yet. Love.

[Andrew J.]

Exercise your 2nd Amendment rights and shoot the little punk through the heart.

[Darth Yoshi]

Dude, she's asking for serious suggestions. 1st degree murder isn't going to help her.

[jegs2]

How much weight do you think I have as a teacher when most of the parents look down on me because I'm not even 25 yet? Check that, make it parents and administrators. They, the administrators, have gone behind my back in the past month to pull two kids (at different times) out of my class because their parents bitched about the bad grades they were getting. Did admin back me up and say that the kid deserved the bad grade? Did they bother to look through my gradebook to see WHY the fuckin' kid got a bad grade? No. Admin yanked the kids out of my class, WITHOUT FUCKING TALKING TO ME FIRST, and stuck them in new classes for the semester. The kids were had been in those classes for AN ENTIRE WEEK before I found out BY ACCIDENT that they had their schedules changed and approved by administration.

It's ridiculous. What else can I do when I'm completely alone like this? I think I want to go back to temping...

Both my mother and father were teachers. Over the years (ranging from 20 to 30), I've watched their authority diminish, along with their ability to hold any form of discipline within their classrooms. My father suffered a brain anurism and had to leave teaching (retirement). My mother yet hangs on, but I can see it draining her more and more over time. If I ever taught, it would only be after retirement from the Army (of which I'll be eligible within eight years). Teaching requires a lot of patience, endurance, and love for teaching. Without those, it has great potential for misery.

[The Yosemite Bear]

And kids intercept all parental communication at that age anyways...

I really dont know, my stepmom's a math teacher & a Spanish/Hmong English Teacher. (Yes, I know the props dissallowed it as a class, it's still available as a "tutor" type program (The Teachers don't get paid)

[Andrew J.]

Dude, she's asking for serious suggestions.

Oh.

In that case, give him detention and/or fail him. If the administration overrides you, find a different job at another school.

OPTIONAL: If the administration is unfairly protecting students at the behest of the parents, tell someone in the media about your corrupt, incompetent bosses. With a little luck, they'll get fired, and people with a little backbone will replace them.

[Kelly Antilles]

OPTIONAL: If the administration is unfairly protecting students at the behest of the parents, tell someone in the media about your corrupt, incompetent bosses. With a little luck, they'll get fired, and people with a little backbone will replace them.

Behest of the parents? I don't think so. Teachers, because of administration who is scared of getting sued by parents, can't teach anymore. You can't touch a child without someone screaming "ABUSE!" And kids know that now.

Now, this kid probably has something deeper that is making him treat Z like this. He obviously has a complex against women. Something has happened, most likely a divorce and he either lives with his father who trashes women constantly, or with his mother who is strict. No matter what, he doesn't like or respect women for some reason.

[Andrew J.]

OPTIONAL: If the administration is unfairly protecting students at the behest of the parents, tell someone in the media about your corrupt, incompetent bosses. With a little luck, they'll get fired, and people with a little backbone will replace them.

Behest of the parents? I don't think so.

...the administrators, have gone behind my back in the past month to pull two kids (at different times) out of my class because their parents bitched about the bad grades they were getting.

Emphasis mine.

[Kelly Antilles]

...the administrators, have gone behind my back in the past month to pull two kids (at different times) out of my class because their parents bitched about the bad grades they were getting.

Emphasis mine.

Ah... I didn't see that.

However, how much do you want to bet BOTH were atheletes.

[Andrew J.]

...the administrators, have gone behind my back in the past month to pull two kids (at different times) out of my class because their parents bitched about the bad grades they were getting.

Emphasis mine.

Ah... I didn't see that.

However, how much do you want to bet BOTH were atheletes.

Um...one Sacajawea gold-coin dollar!

[Kelly Antilles]

Um...one Sacajawea gold-coin dollar!

Ok, I've got 5 of them.

[The Yosemite Bear]

God, I remember how protected the jocks were when I was in HS.

I mean we had the star Wrestler beat the crap out of the Quarterback for raping his little sister, in front of everybody (Cafateria, the words your 18 she's only 15, were heard by everybody), with no charges, or even detention for either one...

[Durandal]

...the administrators, have gone behind my back in the past month to pull two kids (at different times) out of my class because their parents bitched about the bad grades they were getting.

Emphasis mine.

Ah... I didn't see that.

However, how much do you want to bet BOTH were atheletes.

Good point. I'll bet that they were football players, as well.

[Darth Wong]

Both my mother and father were teachers. Over the years (ranging from 20 to 30), I've watched their authority diminish, along with their ability to hold any form of discipline within their classrooms. My father suffered a brain anurism and had to leave teaching (retirement). My mother yet hangs on, but I can see it draining her more and more over time. If I ever taught, it would only be after retirement from the Army (of which I'll be eligible within eight years). Teaching requires a lot of patience, endurance, and love for teaching. Without those, it has great potential for misery.

Unless you're callous. Let's face it; the biggest problem with teaching is the danger that you might actually care whether you're doing a good job.

If you decide not to care, you can simply be like university profs and tell the kids that they're perfectly free to ignore your instructions, flunk your class, and go on to become worthless failures in life. Not your problem. And if there's a troublemaker who's gathering a following, you can simply do things like punishing the entire class for it, without caring how they will feel. The phrase "Class, Mr. Anderson has just earned you all another three homework assignments, all due by next week. Feel free to thank him after school" can work wonders.

[Kelly Antilles]

If you decide not to care, you can simply be like university profs and tell the kids that they're perfectly free to ignore your instructions, flunk your class, and go on to become worthless failures in life. Not your problem. And if there's a troublemaker who's gathering a following, you can simply do things like punishing the entire class for it, without caring how they will feel. The phrase "Class, Mr. Anderson has just earned you all another three homework assignments, all due by next week. Feel free to thank him after school" can work wonders.

That is VERY hard to do with a band, Wong.