I AM SO FUCKING PISSED OFF AND NO ONE CAN HELP!!

[Durandal]

I've always liked the university professor teaching models better. No coddling, just right.

[Darth Wong]

That is VERY hard to do with a band, Wong.

Shit. I forgot that they don't have homework assignments in band class.

[Darth Wong]

I've always liked the university professor teaching models better. No coddling, just right.

I will always remember the guys during frosh week who said "No one will check your notes. No one will check attendance. And no one will give a shit if you fail and end up pumping gas for a living. Your mommy doesn't live here."

[Durandal]

I've always liked the university professor teaching models better. No coddling, just right.

I will always remember the guys during frosh week who said "No one will check your notes. No one will check attendance. And no one will give a shit if you fail and end up pumping gas for a living. Your mommy doesn't live here."

My dad told me about his experiences at General Motors Institute, now Kettering University. Basically, the orientation consisted of the president of the university standing up on stage and saying, "You are not here to find yourself. You are not here to be on a quest of self-discovery. You are here because you know what you want to do [be an engineer]. If you don't know what you want to do, leave."

[Admiral Valdemar]

Sorry to hear that Zaia, life sucks at times, if you ever want to vent shit on me then just PM me or something.

I've been told I'm a good agony uncle, hope things work out.

[IRG CommandoJoe]

In light of this new information...I have these ideas:

Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war on his grades. Fail him to the fullest extent possible. Give him zeros for every single part of his grade.

Keep giving him detentions until he stops talking in class. If he talks in class, then tell him to leave the room and report back to the class after school for detention. I know you probably couldn't stand the shit alone with you, but it's much worse on him than it is for you. Require him to write essays on human decency.

Stop being "yourself" in class. Don't be all bright and cheery and fun. Be a plain, monotonous, serious, boring person unless he and the rest of his "followers" have a serious attitude change. And give them this speech at the beginning of class, but only once. After that do not give any warnings (unless there were kids absent from that particular classyou gave the speech). Just tell them that because they aren't cooperating anymore, you won't either and will be a boring old teacher that won't be fun anymore. And never show them that you are glad that it's working or sad that it's failing. Be tough and never let them see you any other way.

Any talking in class is prohibited. Students must raise their hands if they want to utter a single word and you must give them permission to speak. Anyone speaking without your permission will have to leave the room and will also join the shit in detention. And when you aren't looking but hear talking, it doesn't matter. Just look in the general direction of where the sound was coming from and hand out the detentions to whoever you suspect was talking. Do not hesitate. If the student(s) protests, keep giving more detentions for each time the student(s) speak. This will cause massive amounts of fear in the class, and NO ONE will dare step out of line after this. When you have the class in line, do not stop until several weeks later. When you finally decide it's time to be "yourself" once again, tell them several days in advance that you might go back to your old rules. But warn them that if anything remotely similar to what happened before occurs, you will go back to this fascist class policies and be even more harsh. In the event that happens, then just assign detentions to whole sections if one of them steps out of line. Destroy all of their grades. Make their band class a living hell.

It seems to me these are the only solutions that will half-work. These may not be fun methods at all and you most certainly won't be well-liked among the ones that were banding together with the shit, but they must be taken to preserve order in the class and to perform well at concerts (unless the band is good but just obnoxious). Also, your students will not try it again next year (those that aren't seniors, that is). The good side to this is that next year, he will be gone. You will not have to worry about this shit again, given you will have a reputation for being the toughest teacher in the whole school. You can be "yourself" next year. The new students will hardly believe the stories about you being a cruel teacher from last year. Maybe if you gave a subtle warning the first day of school next year so that only the ones from last year knew what you meant it would be better. I hope this tough method works.

[The Yosemite Bear]

No, that would be showing a clear bias, and his parents would just us it against her.

Play Areatha Franklin?

part of the problem is we have a very unstructured class type (Band), that is traditionally full of egos (again music), an adolecent male in a alpha male position in an ego filled group (Percussionist in a band).

The only real solutions are basically to prove one's "Alpha Status" that she has the skills to shut him up, music wise. That can take a bit of doing. Also, your forgetting that your dealing with a male who things he can dominate her. The puppy needs to get his privates put in place but it's next to impossible for someone to do so without bringing up the "Sexual Harrassment, Contributing to a Hostile Work Enviornment" card against the administration. (Note that is what they are doing)

[Durandal]

Just tell him to get the Hell out. Seriously, next time he opens his mouth, just say, "Leave. I don't care where you go. Go home for all I care. Just be somewhere else so the rest of us can get something productive done."

[Zaia]

IRG Joe, the problem with your advice is that it would sufficiently kill all emotion in my classroom. In order for my students to do more than just play the notes on the page, they need to be able to feel. If I were to slam down on any kid who so much as looked the wrong way, I would be ruling through fear. That's how I was taught, and I don't want to be that kind of teacher.

Durandal, do you have any idea what would happen to me as a teacher if I told a kid to get out and said, "I don't care if you go home, just get out?" I would be sued, without a doubt. That child is my responsibility during the hours he is scheduled to be in my class, so if he hires a hooker, gets run over in traffic, smokes up in the bathroom, or has sex in one of my practice rooms, it's MY FAULT. You can say that sort of thing to college kids and it's no big deal, but not in high school.

D.W. & Kelly, my kids to have homework of sorts; they're supposed to practice. I obviously can't check that the way a history teacher can check the homework they give out, but I can (and do) give playing quizzes that the kids get graded on. They have graded final projects. Graded concert reviews (one per quarter). They have graded playing tests before and after every concert. It would be possible for me to toss in an extra playing test, but it wouldn't be worth it after all the work I would have to put into it and how little the test would be worth in the overall percentage of his grade.

[XPViking]

Zaia,

After reading this thread again, I can't help but wonder if there is no one in the administration who can help you. Have you exhausted all avenues?

Maybe you can consider the following:

1) Talk to the school counsellor about this student. Maybe that person can give you some much-needed background information and some pointers.
2) Just like #1 but yet ask other teachers.
3) Have that student do some crap jobs. I had a buddy who used to teach cooking class at a local highschool. When a student gave him lip, he made that person clean out the deep fryers for a week or two. Nothing like scraping buckets of grease to rectify an attitude.

I hope your situation improves. You sound like a nice person pushing a big rock up a hill.

XPViking

[Durandal]

Durandal, do you have any idea what would happen to me as a teacher if I told a kid to get out and said, "I don't care if you go home, just get out?" I would be sued, without a doubt. That child is my responsibility during the hours he is scheduled to be in my class, so if he hires a hooker, gets run over in traffic, smokes up in the bathroom, or has sex in one of my practice rooms, it's MY FAULT. You can say that sort of thing to college kids and it's no big deal, but not in high school.

Shit really? My teachers did that all the time in high school; then again I went to a private school. They just kicked kids out of class if they were being disruptive. I guess you could just tell him to go to the office.

EDIT: Oh yeah, my English teacher was famous for throwing vocab books at kids who had fallen asleep.

[XPViking]

Oh yeah, my English teacher was famous for throwing vocab books at kids who had fallen asleep.

Heh. Still doesn't top the antics of my Social Studies teacher. He had to be transferred out of shop class because he threw a hammer at a student.

XPViking

[Zaia]

Shit really? My teachers did that all the time in high school; then again I went to a private school. They just kicked kids out of class if they were being disruptive. I guess you could just tell him to go to the office.

EDIT: Oh yeah, my English teacher was famous for throwing vocab books at kids who had fallen asleep.

There is a WORLD of difference between public and private school. You paid a pretty penny to go there. It was a privilege that could be taken away at the snap of someone's fingers if you were somehow deemed unworthy to be there. Public school is nothing like that.

XPViking, it's sad to say, but there's no one in my school who gives a shit about my situation other than me and the vocal music teacher (who is completely clueless). The other teachers are so overworked that they can't take on my problems too, or they are just sucky teachers to begin with and don't understand why I don't just let it roll off my back like they do. It's because I give a shit about my students, what they learn, how they learn it, and what type of people they are in my classroom. If they want to go out and be punks on the street, that's their business, but in my classroom, they have to treat everyone with respect.

My problem is that no one gives a shit about that sort of thing anymore. They only care whether the kids pass the functional tests or not, how well the do on the SATs and how many kids actually drop out so that they can compare favourably to other schools in the area. The admin are so busy trying to keep their job that they don't ever do their job, which is supposed to be supporting the teachers.

[Connor MacLeod]

So change jobs. Is it really worth that much stress? I mean, think about the long term. If the Administration won't back you now, they're not in the future. This means any cocksucker can ignore you, do what he or she wants, etc. If thats how they're going to be, they can just find a new teacher. I have no doubt you could find better employment elsewhere.

[Zaia]

So change jobs. Is it really worth that much stress? I mean, think about the long term. If the Administration won't back you now, they're not in the future. This means any cocksucker can ignore you, do what he or she wants, etc. If thats how they're going to be, they can just find a new teacher. I have no doubt you could find better employment elsewhere.

You're right, and I've been looking into it.... But the problem is, I know I'm really good at what I do and make a positive impact on a lot of kids. So....... It's hard.

[Connor MacLeod]

So change jobs. Is it really worth that much stress? I mean, think about the long term. If the Administration won't back you now, they're not in the future. This means any cocksucker can ignore you, do what he or she wants, etc. If thats how they're going to be, they can just find a new teacher. I have no doubt you could find better employment elsewhere.

You're right, and I've been looking into it.... But the problem is, I know I'm really good at what I do and make a positive impact on a lot of kids. So....... It's hard.

Noone is saying you have to give that up. Just do it elsewhere. Can you really make an impact if you're the only one who gives a shit? IF asshoels like this kid can undermine you and the Admin (and parents) are to spineless and stupid to back you, the one who is trying to help their kids learn something, then anything you try to do is like spitting into the wind.

So let me ask you this. Is what you're having to put up with really worth what you're being paid and worth what you derive from making an impact on those kids?

My belief is that its not. You seem to be really stressed as a result of this one asshole. But I might be wrong. What do you say?

[XPViking]

Zaia,

I'm really sorry to hear your story.

XPViking

[The Yosemite Bear]

Like I said there's a reason I'm a cook & not a teacher.

I can get away with cutting all the way through a pizza and a 1/4" into the cutting board. Cooks are supposed to be tempermental. Just as musciians are. Unfortunatly no public school is going to allow you to act like Mozart or Beethoveen's father's (Then agian you are allowed to talk about parents of the greats), besides breaking wands in a sudden display would just give you a very bad image problem. I am working on finding a viable public school solution, but since you have a high ego/creativity/emootion/time and low discipline nature subject it's kinda hard. The fact that your dealing with boys at an age where they see all women as just something they want to fuck is also part of the problem.

[Zaia]

Noone is saying you have to give that up. Just do it elsewhere. Can you really make an impact if you're the only one who gives a shit?

I don't know. I hope so.

IF asshoels like this kid can undermine you and the Admin (and parents) are to spineless and stupid to back you, the one who is trying to help their kids learn something, then anything you try to do is like spitting into the wind.

Yes, it feels like that, but how will it ever get better if I don't fight it?

So let me ask you this. Is what you're having to put up with really worth what you're being paid and worth what you derive from making an impact on those kids?

Well, it's no secret that I don't get paid much, but there are always going to be assholes, no matter what profession I'm in and no matter where I teach. I need to learn how to deal with him. It just so happens that I don't get any help this time.

My belief is that its not. You seem to be really stressed as a result of this one asshole. But I might be wrong. What do you say?

I am rather stressed out over him, but he was one thing of a few other stressful things that all happened around the same time. So, I think until the other stuff sort of cools down, I won't really be able to say with any certainty one way or another.


XP--thanks, babe. *wan smile*

[Drewcifer]

A few other options for the jerky kid:

- The crappier he gets, the nicer you are. And not just syrupy sweetness, the real thing. I've had several 'deal-with-the-public' jobs, in several different capacities, and that trick almost always works. Eventually, most folks seems to realize that they're being jerks, because all they hear is themselves being assholes while you're still being nice and helpul. Unless they make things personal, and then I adopt the polite but firm position of "that was inappropriate and unacceptable", and after saying that, I become quite cold yet still professional, and still quite helpful. I don't know if this would work in your particular situation, or on a hs kid or not, but it can work wonders on so-called adults.

- If attention he wants, attention he will get. Nothing like a unscheduled, solo, playing test Or have him stand in front of the class and conduct and you play his part, and just let the mayhem rule; let him deal with it. I had a band teacher that did that, and I was a good kid for a long time after that...

- or just ignore the little brat. He wants attention, deny him of it. Just grit your teeth and laugh it off. If he learns that he can get under your skin, he will exploit it.

I know, some conflicting advice, just some things that came to mind.

[Kuja]

Zaia, most of what I would say has already been suggested, so I'll just say try this: patronize the shit out of the bitch. Anytime he shoots his mouth off or cracks a joke, just say "that's nice" and breeze on by without really acknowledging him. This will either A) get him to shut up because he's not making you angry anymore bo B) cause the anger to build up until he does something REALLY bad (like stands up and screams, etc) that noone can just overlook and he WILL be punished for it.

Other than that, stay calm. Getting angry at him in class will not help you much, because then he will say you were biased against him. However, if you stay calm and collected, and let HIM screw up, there will be no question as to who's in the right.

[RedImperator]

And this anecdote, ladies and gentlemen, is why the education system in this country blows. I feel for you, Zaia. This is why I'm considering law school instead of going into education.

If you decide not to care, you can simply be like university profs and tell the kids that they're perfectly free to ignore your instructions, flunk your class, and go on to become worthless failures in life. Not your problem. And if there's a troublemaker who's gathering a following, you can simply do things like punishing the entire class for it, without caring how they will feel. The phrase "Class, Mr. Anderson has just earned you all another three homework assignments, all due by next week. Feel free to thank him after school" can work wonders.

You've just described my planned teaching style. I'm not charismatic enough to control them any other way.

[Darth Wong]

Hmmm ... another way of reacting to him is to psychoanalyze him to his face. That should piss him off without really breaking any rules.

Caustic phrases like "Are you just about done trying to prove your manhood yet? Or do we have to listen to more of your posturing?" would probably piss him off without breaking any rules. And of course, "I think you'd be a better musician if you didn't try so hard to impress your little boyfriends" would probably infuriate him too.

[Connor MacLeod]

Yes, it feels like that, but how will it ever get better if I don't fight it?

How long have you been putting up with it? Is it recent?

Well, it's no secret that I don't get paid much, but there are always going to be assholes, no matter what profession I'm in and no matter where I teach. I need to learn how to deal with him. It just so happens that I don't get any help this time.

True, I suppose. Worth a shot at least.

I am rather stressed out over him, but he was one thing of a few other stressful things that all happened around the same time. So, I think until the other stuff sort of cools down, I won't really be able to say with any certainty one way or another.

All the more reason to consider moving on, perhaps. Or at least look and keep it as an option. If things get bad, you can always lay down an ultimatium to the Administration.

Still, waiting might be a good idea.

[Kuja]

If you decide not to care, you can simply be like university profs and tell the kids that they're perfectly free to ignore your instructions, flunk your class, and go on to become worthless failures in life. Not your problem. And if there's a troublemaker who's gathering a following, you can simply do things like punishing the entire class for it, without caring how they will feel. The phrase "Class, Mr. Anderson has just earned you all another three homework assignments, all due by next week. Feel free to thank him after school" can work wonders.

My favorite teacher ever, Mr. Stefani, used this system of teaching. I think I learned more in that one year of History and half-year of Psychology than I did in any other class. However, I'd never describe him as uncaring. If you came to him for help, he'd help, although he'd do so in a way that you still did most of the work yourself. But if you screwed up, he'd just remind you that he gave you fair warning. He ended up being the HS teacher I admire most.