Shepard's Mass Effect 2 squad on Endor

[Stargazer]

Instead of Han & co. trying to take out the shield generator on Endor, Shepard's squad from Mass Effect 2 is sent in. Shepard has the "nuke" launcher, but he's not the only one with a heavy weapon- Zaeed has the flamethrower, Garrus has the black hole gun, Grunt has the rocket launcher, Jacob has the missile launcher, Tali has the freeze ray, and Legion has the Collector particle beam. All upgrades possible in ME2 are given to the squad. They are given the same mission parameters as the Rebels, and will not get any Ewok help. Assume kinetic barriers are effective against blasters.

Can they take down the shield generator?

[hunter5]

How big a nuke are we talking about? Just the nuke launcher should be enough to take out the generator unless the building is shielded in some unknown way.

[Stargazer]

It's not a real nuke. It's called that because the 25 grams of HE it fires at 5 km/s creates a nuke-esque mushroom cloud.

http://masseffect.bioware.com/universe/arsenal/weapons/

Go to "M-920 Cain"

[Serafina]

How big a nuke are we talking about? Just the nuke launcher should be enough to take out the generator unless the building is shielded in some unknown way.

Which we do not know.
Since it is a pretty important structure AND made from SW-materials, i think it is quite possible that it will withstand a KT-range blast even without shields.

[Jaevric]

Without Ewok assistance, Shepherd and his team may well be in deep trouble when the Stormtroopers and AT-STs arrive. I'm not sure we have any good examples from the games that would let us estimate the firepower of Mass Effect sidearms versus blasters, or any idea of what amount of damage the kinetic barriers are actually effective against.

We'd have to demonstrate that the team's weapons are capable of not only successfully engaging Stormtrooper-grade personal armor, but that they are going to be able to take out AT-STs and crack the bunker open or convince the troops inside to open the door.

There seems to be insufficient information. We know Shepherd can shove a guy out of the window of a skyscraper without tremendous effort, which doesn't say much for that particular material. At the same time, going by the opening cutscene, Shepherd goes through atmospheric reentry in a leaking suit of personal armor and while it kills him he's in good enough shape to be put back together by a team of Cerberus specialists and 4 billion credits worth of cybernetics and duct tape.

[open_sketchbook]

Shepard's got a few advantages and a few disadvantages. On the advantage side, one of the big ones is biotics; the Empire would have no idea what the fuck was going on as gravity started dancing to somebody else's tune, and considing what some of those powers do to the mechs, I wouldn't be surprised if Jack or Samara could single-handedly neutralize many of the AT-STs. One for one, I'd say that Shepard's team are superior to Storm Troopers; with all the cybernetic implants, gene therepy, powered suits, and other assorted enhancements that are common in the ME universe, they will have faster reaction times, better endurance, and they'll probably be tougher. We've seen and read the effects of Mass Effect rifles; pistols can knock a Vorcha's head across the room at point blank range and have signifigant hitting power (once shields go down, the books usually discribed they "shredding" people, and leaving behind little more than chunks of meat) and there are all sorts of crazy ammo avaliable; it's just speculation, but one might imagine that inferno would probably put down a Storm Trooper, or at least render them unable to fight while they are, you know, on fire. The heavy weapons would all (except for maybe the collector beam gun) put down Storm Troopers with ease.

Now I know the OP states that kenetic barriers are "effective" against blasters, but that's meaningless. Barriers work by slapping aside incoming projectiles, and blasters are not projectiles, they're directed energy weapons. Therefore, a blaster hit will kill anyone on Shepard's team dead, which puts them on the same footing as the Rebels in that regard.

If Shepard can get within striking distance of the back doors, which I believe he can, then he might be able to use the Cain to blow it right open (remember the blast doors are not closed by default), walk in, kill the technicians, and drop some explosives. Seeing as they'll be moving ahead of the RotJ schedual, they might concievably just walk out again and fly off in their shuttle before the rest of the Stormtroopers show up. If they can't blow the doors open, Tali and Legion could probably manage it, but it might slow them down enough to get them all killed horribly by the kabillion storm troopers that show up.

[Stargazer]

There seems to be insufficient information. We know Shepherd can shove a guy out of the window of a skyscraper without tremendous effort, which doesn't say much for that particular material. At the same time, going by the opening cutscene, Shepherd goes through atmospheric reentry in a leaking suit of personal armor and while it kills him he's in good enough shape to be put back together by a team of Cerberus specialists and 4 billion credits worth of cybernetics and duct tape.

Notably, Shepard is able to wield weapons whose recoil would break the shoulder of a normal human- and gets muscle, bone, skin, and armor upgrades on top of that.

Now I know the OP states that kenetic barriers are "effective" against blasters, but that's meaningless. Barriers work by slapping aside incoming projectiles, and blasters are not projectiles, they're directed energy weapons. Therefore, a blaster hit will kill anyone on Shepard's team dead, which puts them on the same footing as the Rebels in that regard.

Aren't blasters ionized tibanna gas? They're still matter, not pure particles like a laser. Kinetic barriers should stil block them.

If they can't blow the doors open, Tali and Legion could probably manage it, but it might slow them down enough to get them all killed horribly by the kabillion storm troopers that show up.

Kabillion? You mean the forty or so that the Ewoks were somewhat effective against?

[Vympel]

Kabillion? You mean the forty or so that the Ewoks were somewhat effective against?

The Ewoks had the advantage of surprise and attacking from all directions, the entire ME2 squad is coming out of a narrow doorway. Personally I think they could blow a hole through whatever prepared defence the Stormtroopers set up (i.e. they won't be standing around like in RotJ because their mission wouldn't be complete, they'd probably position themselves behind the rise that rings the clearing) - but some of them would get swiss cheesed (especially by AT-STs) before they did so. They certainly won't be engaging in a stand up fight and winning, they should be blowing the nearest hole in the line and running off into the woods. They should be aiming so that the bunker will blow before the explosives can be deactivated and their mission will be complete.

Aren't blasters ionized tibanna gas? They're still matter, not pure particles like a laser. Kinetic barriers should stil block them.

The codex clearly says that kinetic barriers cannot block lasers, particle beams, and directed energy weapons generally, which is what blasters obviously are (refer to RotS novel, which calls them galvened particle beams). There is no reason to expect that kinetic barriers will block them - at absolute most they'll have hugely reduced effectiveness against them (think shield piercing ammo), and thats all you can reasonably expect of them. Even thats generous. Simply dictating that kinetic barriers are effective against blasters flies in the face of what the codex says- they're obviously energy beams, not bullets.

[Starglider]

The codex clearly says that kinetic barriers cannot block lasers, particle beams, and directed energy weapons generally

I got the impression that was due to the lightspeed or at least relativistic velocity. If kinetic barriers exert a specific max acceleration or KE change, then they will be limited by projectile velocity more than anything else. Certainly there is nothing fundamentally different about a stream of ions compared to a stream of bullets, it's just matter chopped into smaller pieces.

which is what blasters obviously are (refer to RotS novel, which calls them galvened particle beams).

Blasters fire slow-moving glowing blobs of something. The velocity of blaster bolts is much lower than the quoted or even observed velocities of ME projectile weapons. I'd actually expect kinetic barriers to be very effective against them, unless you go with the 'visible blob is just a tracer for the invisible destructive beam'. That explanation might be supported by SFX errors but it never made sense to me; if you're going to have a tracer for an invisible beam weapon, why not just use a laser?

There is no reason to expect that kinetic barriers will block them

Kinetic barriers block explosions just fine, so they clearly work against hot gas (plasma bolts are just very hot gas). Even for particle beams, the collector particle beam weapon drains barriers quite quickly but it doesn't bypass them.

Simply dictating that kinetic barriers are effective against blasters flies in the face of what the codex says- they're obviously energy beams, not bullets.

This is what the Codex says;

Kinetic barriers, colloquially called "shields", provide protection against most mass accelerator weapons. Whether on a starship or a soldier's suit of armor, the basic principle remains the same.

Kinetic barriers are repulsive mass effect fields projected from tiny emitters. These shields safely deflect small objects traveling at rapid velocities. This affords protection from bullets and other dangerous projectiles, but still allows the user to sit down without knocking away their chair.

The shielding afforded by kinetic barriers does not protect against extremes of temperature, toxins, or radiation.

I don't see any mention of particle beams there. 'Radiation' is a bit ambigious; obviously shields don't help against fallout, and lasers are electromagnetic radiation. Particle beams may or may not count as 'radiation' depending on the velocity.

[Darksider]

Re: Mass Effect Shields and particle beams, I don't know if gameplay stuff is canon, but shields do block the collector Particle beam weapon during combat. On the other hand, the Normandy's kinetic barriers do precisely dick against the particle beams fired by the Collector warship.

[Vympel]

I got the impression that was due to the lightspeed or at least relativistic velocity. If kinetic barriers exert a specific max acceleration or KE change, then they will be limited by projectile velocity more than anything else. Certainly there is nothing fundamentally different about a stream of ions compared to a stream of bullets, it's just matter chopped into smaller pieces.

Nothing the codex says they can't block DEWs because of their velocity, it just says they can't block them. There's no reason to assume that a KB is effective against any arbitrarily small collection of matter just because its flying at a certain speed.

Kinetic barriers block explosions just fine, so they clearly work against hot gas (plasma bolts are just very hot gas). Even for particle beams, the collector particle beam weapon drains barriers quite quickly but it doesn't bypass them.

Which may simply be game mechanics, which is why I said it would be generous to grant that kinetic barriers might have limited effectiveness against blaster bolts. But block them as well as they do a slug? No.

I don't see any mention of particle beams there.

Thats because you're looking at the wrong entry:-

A warship's kinetic barriers reduce the damage from solid objects, but can do nothing to block GARDIAN lasers, particle beams, and other forms of Directed Energy Weapon (DEW).

The ablative armor entry. The codex entry doesn't ever say its restricted to true light-speed energy weapons- that is IMO a conceit that ME fans have invented out of thin air.

[adam_grif]

The codex states they can't, but gameplay states they can (your barriers/shields prevent damage from beam weapons). That said, the game also has shields blocking intense sunlight, and gameplay can't necessarily be considered cannon. Cutscenes have the collector ship mounted particle beams ignoring the Normandy's barriers, however the final cutscene also has the collector ship getting pwned by wimpy frigate mass accelerator guns, which should have been blocked by it's barriers.

I tend to side with the codex, because it's better thought out and at least internally consistent.

[Xon]

The upgraded shields slap incoming projectiles away, where as normal shields attempt to slowdown/stop incoming rounds. There is also the fact, that the mass effect fields are computer controlled, which implies a lower bound on the activation timeframe.

Also the intense sunlight from the star prematurely aging is mentioned in dialog that it will overload and affect your shields which is more than a simple gameplay mechanic.

[Highlord Laan]

1) Unleash Grunt on the stormtroopers.

2) Kick back and watch the fun.

"On the ground! Now!"

[Havok]

Shepard's crew is screwed because the Imps won't be dropping any heat sinks for their weapons. So they should run out of rounds in about, oh, three or four seconds once they get into a firefight.

[Balrog]

Since they don't have the Ewoks helping them, what are their chances of even finding the back door?

[Stark]

Shepard's crew is screwed because the Imps won't be dropping any heat sinks for their weapons. So they should run out of rounds in about, oh, three or four seconds once they get into a firefight.

Surely the heat sinks will cool by themselves? OH WAIT!

[Losonti Tokash]

Shepard's crew is screwed because the Imps won't be dropping any heat sinks for their weapons. So they should run out of rounds in about, oh, three or four seconds once they get into a firefight.

Surely the heat sinks will cool by themselves? OH WAIT!

If only they carried more than 4 or 5 clips per mission!