Question about Jews

[Long Wang]

OK, are Jews a religion, a race, or a nation?

[Mr Bean]

All three, though the last one is constantly in jepordey from the hordes of fokes who want them dead

[InnerBrat]

Judaism is a religion

The Hebrews are a race

Israel is a nation.

I think - am I right?

[salm]

Judaism is a religion

The Hebrews are a race

Israel is a nation.

I think - am I right?

depends whom you ask. i agree with you but a lot of people will claim that bein jewish is being part of a religion as well as bein part of a race.

i guess you knew that anyway.

[Xenophobe3691]

Jews are a weird combination of all three.

Judaism, in itself, is a religion.

Unfortunately, due to religious mandates, ancient Jews (and mideval ones, too), could not freely mingle with the population at large. Thus, a subculture, and then a culture formed that was shared among Jews, and only Jews, due to its being religiously based.

As a nation? The only Jewish Nation in existence is Israel, and before that there hadn't been one in 2000 years. So no, any Jew outside Israel is not part of their own separate nation. They're part of the nation in which they live.


And no, I can personally testify that Jews aren't a race, or else my mother wouldn't have been able to convert (My mom's Black, from the Dominican Republic, and was raised Roman Catholic. My dad's white, and from NYC, and shares Polish and Spanish blood.)

[kojikun]

Technically there are only three races defined by skull structure variations. Those are caucasian, african, and mongol. Archetypal Hebrews are Caucasian, like Indians and Arabs and Europeans. and Australian Aboriginals.

[lgot]

Jews is for sure not a religion, neither a mix of it. It is just the names of followers of Judaism. That is all.
It is not a country either.

[Coyote]

Everyone here is right and of course there are plenty who would say they are wrong. It i an argument that has ben going on in Jewish religious circles for a long time. THe ultra-Orthodox insist that anyone who does not follow the Halakhic law observances revolving around culture/tradition/observancesis not a "real Jew" but they are in the minority.

OTOH, a person who converted to Judaism or even a person who was born Jewish but was 100% secular would still have been tossed into the ovens at Auschwitz. Going on that basis, many Jews say that anyone who would be willing to take on that burden and share that risk as a part of the Jewish people is a Jew.

Innerbrat's breakdown is pretty close to modern fact, and acceptable by many (except for the truly anal-retentive). Orthodox Halakha also states that:

A person born of a Jewish mother (but not a Jewish father) is a Jew. The Reform movement in the US accepts any parentage.

Jewish "ethnicity" goes for three generations of Jewish women: you are a Jew if your mother, grandmother, and great-grandmother were Jewish. It does not matter if at any point they converted to another religion or became secular. After the third generation without any contact with the Jewish community, that generation is considered lost to the Jewish people.

A Jewish boy who is uncircumcised is not fully accepted as a Jew.

Converting does not change race but i does include you in the Jewish community. Some families will not accept their kids marrying converts, for Cohens it is technically forbidden (the children of converts is up in the air, grandchildren, being the 3rd generation, are okay). Converting shows adaption to Jewish cultural norms and a willingness to uphold thetraditions.

Again, this is the Orthodox interpretation, not necessarily the pov of all Jews/Israelis...

[Biddybot]

Good question--and yes, the answer depends upon whom you ask. A religion? Yes, of course. No one would debate that. A race? If by race you really mean ethnic community or culture, then sure, one can have a Jewish race in the same sense than one can have a French-Canadian race. If your definition of race means a specific physiological type of human being, then no, because people of any racial background can become Jews and do, even if some would rather they didn't. (SOUTH PARK had a good time with this in their Moses episode, wherein a very Asian-looking little boy caused considerable consternation when he showed up at a Jewish version of a Boy Scout meeting.) A nation? Only if every single person that was a citizen of Israel were, and will always be, of the Jewish faith, which I don't believe they are. I think it's quite proper to consider Israel as the nation encompassing the wellspring of the Jewish religion, however. Most of the Jewish people I know consider Israel their 'homeland', albeit in the sense that it's the home of their faith, not the physical place where they or their family neccessarily originated from.

[lgot]

Good question--and yes, the answer depends upon whom you ask. A religion? Yes, of course. No one would debate that.

Oh, man, This is pure semanthics. Jew is not a religion. Christian is not a religion. Christianism is.
unless you wish to put works, Jew Religion, Jew Traditions, Jew People etc to be related to that.
Jew is a reference to the man, individual. That is all.

[The Yosemite Bear]

Not sure, and I'm just a strange identity-less american.

My dad's Jewish, my mom's Scotish & Irish (Both Catholic & Prod. now coverted to Catholisism)

Me, I accept the basic morality tenets of both religions, hate the bullshit, don't beleive in creation, and want Church & State to be as serperate as possible to avoid things like Salem, The Inquistion, the Holocaust, Situations in the Middle East, the Hundred Years War etc.

[Darth Wong]

It would be nice of a Jewish person could identify himself as just a human being. No offense intended, Coyote, but there are an awful lot of Jews who are entirely too hung-up on the meaning of their "special heritage".

[kojikun]

I agree, Mike. Too many people get themselves caught up with deperating themselves from others that they dont realise theres no meaningful difference and that trying to make one is the whole cause of these conflicts.

[Sea Skimmer]

It would be nice of a Jewish person could identify himself as just a human being. No offense intended, Coyote, but there are an awful lot of Jews who are entirely too hung-up on the meaning of their "special heritage".

I've not encountered that myself, and most of my friends are Jewish. You wouldn't know unless you asked however.

[Illuminatus Primus]

I felt offended when in a paper here they talked about how Jews at the local synogogue made all kinds of comments on how much more upset they were over the Isreali who died aboard the Columbia. That irritated me, really.

[Thirdfain]

*shrug* you have to admit, Jews as a people have had a lot of shit happen to them over the last 5,000 years. They have been the short, fat kid with glasses in the School Yard of History. Of course, they recently went through the Summer Boot Camp of World War 2, and Isreal is now the Muscular Football Star who smacked around the asshole who beat him up as a kid, and he is going out with the Hot Cheerleader of American Economic and Military Support.

Jesus, I need to get out of high school.

[neoolong]

*shrug* you have to admit, Jews as a people have had a lot of shit happen to them over the last 5,000 years. They have been the short, fat kid with glasses in the School Yard of History. Of course, they recently went through the Summer Boot Camp of World War 2, and Isreal is now the Muscular Football Star who smacked around the asshole who beat him up as a kid, and he is going out with the Hot Cheerleader of American Economic and Military Support.

Jesus, I need to get out of high school.

You know, you didn't need to use metaphor to say that.

[Coyote]

It would be nice of a Jewish person could identify himself as just a human being. No offense intended, Coyote, but there are an awful lot of Jews who are entirely too hung-up on the meaning of their "special heritage".

None taken. I'm pretty much of the feeling that I'm just a regular Joe but since someone asked, I figured I'd give the book answer. Most Jews/Israelis I know would love to be accepted as normal (although some do go out of their way to be "normal-- with provisions") but many times it is not they that seek special povs but have it thrust upon them either by racists or by well-meaning but bizarre "Judeaophile" Christians.

There's a lot of interpretation within Judaism about "what it means to be Jewish". I mean, I keep kosher to some degree. But while I don't care if a restaurant serves pork, shellfish, or cheeseburgers-- I just don't order them-- a anal-retentive Orthodox Jew would say that I am in the wrong because I do not eat at restaurants that have sterilized all the cooking implements from meat/milk mix and pork. I-- and I'd guess about 85% of Jews/Israelis-- see this as excessive silliness. or as I call it, "cooties syndrome".

But as the joke goes-- "ask two Jews a question, you'll get three opinions..."

[ArmorPierce]

Judaism is a religion

The Hebrews are a race

Israel is a nation.

I think - am I right?

depends whom you ask. i agree with you but a lot of people will claim that bein jewish is being part of a religion as well as bein part of a race.

i guess you knew that anyway.

Not to mention that some thinks that it means that they are part of a nation.

[David]

Hmmm since the Romans sacked Jerusalem and destroyed the geneological records, if there are any pure Jews, they can't prove it. After 2000 years of inter breeding I doubt there are any left.