Waterboarding for Dummies - CIA Guidelines on Torture

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Waterboarding for Dummies - CIA Guidelines on Torture

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Tuesday, Mar 9, 2010 07:01 EST
Waterboarding for dummies
Internal CIA documents reveal a meticulous protocol that was far more brutal than Dick Cheney's "dunk in the water"
By Mark Benjamin


Self-proclaimed waterboarding fan Dick Cheney called it a no-brainer in a 2006 radio interview: Terror suspects should get a "a dunk in the water." But recently released internal documents reveal the controversial "enhanced interrogation" practice was far more brutal on detainees than Cheney's description sounds, and was administered with meticulous cruelty.

Interrogators pumped detainees full of so much water that the CIA turned to a special saline solution to minimize the risk of death, the documents show. The agency used a gurney "specially designed" to tilt backwards at a perfect angle to maximize the water entering the prisoner's nose and mouth, intensifying the sense of choking – and to be lifted upright quickly in the event that a prisoner stopped breathing.

The documents also lay out, in chilling detail, exactly what should occur in each two-hour waterboarding "session." Interrogators were instructed to start pouring water right after a detainee exhaled, to ensure he inhaled water, not air, in his next breath. They could use their hands to "dam the runoff" and prevent water from spilling out of a detainee's mouth. They were allowed six separate 40-second "applications" of liquid in each two-hour session – and could dump water over a detainee's nose and mouth for a total of 12 minutes a day. Finally, to keep detainees alive even if they inhaled their own vomit during a session – a not-uncommon side effect of waterboarding – the prisoners were kept on a liquid diet. The agency recommended Ensure Plus.

"This is revolting and it is deeply disturbing," said Dr. Scott Allen, co-director of the Center for Prisoner Health and Human Rights at Brown University who has reviewed all of the documents for Physicians for Human Rights. "The so-called science here is a total departure from any ethics or any legitimate purpose. They are saying, ‘This is how risky and harmful the procedure is, but we are still going to do it.' It just sounds like lunacy," he said. "This fine-tuning of torture is unethical, incompetent and a disgrace to medicine."



These torture guidelines were contained in a ream of internal government documents made public over the past year, including a legal review of Bush-era CIA interrogations by the Justice Department's Office of Professional Responsibility released late last month.

Though public, the hundreds of pages of documents authorizing or later reviewing the agency's "enhanced interrogation program" haven't been mined for waterboarding details until now. While Bush-Cheney officials defended the legality and safety of waterboarding by noting the practice has been used to train U.S. service members to resist torture, the documents show that the agency's methods went far beyond anything ever done to a soldier during training. U.S. soldiers, for example, were generally waterboarded with a cloth over their face one time, never more than twice, for about 20 seconds, the CIA admits in its own documents.

These memos show the CIA went much further than that with terror suspects, using huge and dangerous quantities of liquid over long periods of time. The CIA's waterboarding was "different" from training for elite soldiers, according to the Justice Department document released last month. "The difference was in the manner in which the detainee's breathing was obstructed," the document notes. In soldier training, "The interrogator applies a small amount of water to the cloth (on a soldier's face) in a controlled manner," DOJ wrote. "By contrast, the agency interrogator ... continuously applied large volumes of water to a cloth that covered the detainee's mouth and nose."

One of the more interesting revelations in the documents is the use of a saline solution in waterboarding. Why? Because the CIA forced such massive quantities of water into the mouths and noses of detainees, prisoners inevitably swallowed huge amounts of liquid – enough to conceivably kill them from hyponatremia, a rare but deadly condition in which ingesting enormous quantities of water results in a dangerously low concentration of sodium in the blood. Generally a concern only for marathon runners , who on extremely rare occasions drink that much water, hyponatremia could set in during a prolonged waterboarding session. A waterlogged, sodium-deprived prisoner might become confused and lethargic, slip into convulsions, enter a coma and die.

Therefore, "based on advice of medical personnel," Principal Deputy Assistant Attorney General Steven Bradbury wrote in a May 10, 2005, memo authorizing continued use of waterboarding, "the CIA requires that saline solution be used instead of plain water to reduce the possibility of hyponatremia."

The agency used so much water there was also another risk: pneumonia resulting from detainees inhaling the fluid forced into their mouths and noses. Saline, the CIA argued, might reduce the risk of pneumonia when this occurred.

"The detainee might aspirate some of the water, and the resulting water in the lungs might lead to pneumonia," Bradbury noted in the same memo. "To mitigate this risk, a potable saline solution is used in the procedure."

That particular Bradbury memo laid out a precise and disturbing protocol for what went on in each waterboarding session. The CIA used a "specially designed" gurney for waterboarding, Bradbury wrote. After immobilizing a prisoner by strapping him down, interrogators then tilted the gurney to a 10-15 degree downward angle, with the detainee's head at the lower end. They put a black cloth over his face and poured water, or saline, from a height of 6 to 18 inches, documents show. The slant of the gurney helped drive the water more directly into the prisoner's nose and mouth. But the gurney could also be tilted upright quickly, in the event the prisoner stopped breathing.

Detainees would be strapped to the gurney for a two-hour "session." During that session, the continuous flow of water onto a detainee's face was not supposed to exceed 40 seconds during each pour. Interrogators could perform six separate 40-second pours during each session, for a total of four minutes of pouring. Detainees could be subjected to two of those two-hour sessions during a 24-hour period, which adds up to eight minutes of pouring. But the CIA's guidelines say interrogators could pour water over the nose and mouth of a detainee for 12 minutes total during each 24-hour period. The documents do not explain the extra four minutes to get to 12.

Interrogators were instructed to pour the water when a detainee had just exhaled so that he would inhale during the pour. An interrogator was also allowed to force the water down a detainee's mouth and nose using his hands. "The interrogator may cup his hands around the detainee's nose and mouth to dam the runoff," the Bradbury memo notes. "In which case it would not be possible for the detainee to breathe during the application of the water."

"We understand that water may enter – and accumulate in – the detainee's mouth and nasal cavity, preventing him from breathing," the memo admits.

Should a prisoner stop breathing during the procedure, the documents instructed interrogators to rapidly tilt the gurney to an upright position to help expel the saline. "If the detainee is not breathing freely after the cloth is removed from his face, he is immediately moved to a vertical position in order to clear the water from his mouth, nose, and nasopharynx," Bradbury wrote. "The gurney used for administering this technique is specially designed so that this can be accomplished very quickly if necessary."

Documents drafted by CIA medical officials in 2003, about a year after the agency started using the waterboard, describe more aggressive procedures to get the water out and the subject breathing. "An unresponsive subject should be righted immediately," the CIA Office of Medical Services ordered in its Sept. 4, 2003, medical guidelines for interrogations. "The interrogator should then deliver a sub-xyphoid thrust to expel the water." (That's a blow below the sternum, similar to the thrust delivered to a chocking victim in the Heimlich maneuver.)

But even those steps might not force the prisoner to resume breathing. Waterboarding, according to the Bradbury memo, could produce "spasms of the larynx" that might keep a prisoner from breathing "even when the application of water is stopped and the detainee is returned to an upright position." In such cases, Bradbury wrote, "a qualified physician would immediately intervene to address the problem and, if necessary, the intervening physician would perform a tracheotomy." The agency required that "necessary emergency medical equipment" be kept readily available for that procedure. The documents do not say if doctors ever performed a tracheotomy on a prisoner.

The doctors were also present to monitor the detainee "to ensure that he does not develop respiratory distress." A leaked 2007 report from the International Committee of the Red Cross says that meant the detainee's finger was fixed with a pulse oxymeter, a device that measures the oxygen saturation level in the blood during the procedure. Doctors like Allen say this would allow interrogators to push a detainee close to death – but help them from crossing the line. "It is measuring in real time the oxygen content in the blood second by second," Allen explained about the pulse oxymeter. "It basically allows them to push these prisoners more to the edge. With that, you can keep going. This is calibration of harm by health professionals."

One of the weirdest details in the documents is the revelation that the agency placed detainees on liquid diets prior to the use of waterboarding. That's because during waterboarding, "a detainee might vomit and then aspirate the emesis," Bradbury wrote. In other words, breathe in his own vomit. The CIA recommended the use of Ensure Plus for the liquid diet.

Plowing through hundreds of pages of these documents is an unsettling experience. On one level, the detailed instructions can be seen as helping to carry out kinder, gentler waterboarding, with so much care and attention given to making sure detainees didn't stop breathing, get pneumonia, breathe in their own vomit or die. But of course dead detainees tell no tales, so the CIA needed to keep many of its prisoners alive. It should be noted, though, that six human rights groups in 2007 released a report showing that 39 people who appeared to have gone into the CIA's secret prison network haven't shown up since. The careful attention to detail in the documents was also used to provide legal cover for the harsh and probably illegal interrogation tactics.

As brutal as the waterboarding process was, the memos also reveal that the Bush-era Justice Department authorized the CIA to use it in combination with other forms of torture. Specifically, a detainee could be kept awake for more than seven days straight by shackling his hands in a standing position to a bolt in the ceiling so he could never sit down. The agency diapered and hand-fed its detainees during this period before putting them on the waterboard. Another memo from Bradbury, also from 2005, says that in between waterboarding sessions, a detainee could be physically slammed into a wall, crammed into a small box, placed in "stress positions" to increase discomfort and doused with cold water, among other things.

The CIA's waterboarding regimen was so excruciating, the memos show, that agency officials found themselves grappling with an unexpected development: detainees simply gave up and tried to let themselves drown. "In our limited experience, extensive sustained use of the waterboard can introduce new risks," the CIA's Office of Medical Services wrote in its 2003 memo. "Most seriously, for reasons of physical fatigue or psychological resignation, the subject may simply give up, allowing excessive filling of the airways and loss of consciousness."

The agency's medical guidelines say that after a case of "psychological resignation" by a detainee on the waterboard, an interrogator had to get approval from a CIA doctor before doing it again.

The memo also contains a last, little-noticed paragraph that may be the most disturbing of all. It seems to say that the detainees subjected to waterboarding were also guinea pigs. The language is eerily reminiscent of the very reasons the Nuremberg Code was written in the first place. That paragraph reads as follows:

"NOTE: In order to best inform future medical judgments and recommendations, it is important that every application of the waterboard be thoroughly documented: how long each application (and the entire procedure) lasted, how much water was used in the process (realizing that much splashes off), how exactly the water was applied, if a seal was achieved, if the naso- or oropharynx was filled, what sort of volume was expelled, how long was the break between applications, and how the subject looked between each treatment."
This blows completely out of the water any claims that the US "enhanced interrogation" methods are anything other than a full-blown war crime committed at the behest of the government and all perpetrators actively protected. What's worse, not only do they do this intentionally with full knowledge, they have actively refined the methods in order to make it more brutal without being necessarily lethal. There is no reason to call anyone advocating the "enhanced interrogation" of prisoners anything other than a war crimes supporter now.

And it's a sad day indeed when government sponsored torture has led to criminal trials in Iran, the same thing cannot be said of the United States.
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Re: Waterboarding for Dummies - CIA Guidelines on Torture

Post by Siege »

There's something about turning torture into a clinical procedure to be carefully administered by trained torturers (oh, sorry, I mean interrogators) according to carefully refined methods tailored to induce maximum terror against the smallest risk of suspect death that just strikes me as infinitely more perverse than a thuggish brute pulling fingernails in a third world hell-hole somewhere. These people know exactly how revolting their practices are, and promptly choose to ignore that knowledge. I guess Langley is the new Lubyanka.
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Re: Waterboarding for Dummies - CIA Guidelines on Torture

Post by Einzige »

Sickening, but unsurprising - our government has a history of such brutality. What I find more disturbing is the extent to which everyday Americans are more than prepared (perhaps thoroughly dehumanized enough) to support this, and will even ridicule and lambaste those who draw attention to this gross violation of individual liberties.
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Re: Waterboarding for Dummies - CIA Guidelines on Torture

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

That article was very eerie in that it's so clinical and medically "sound". I can see the rationale for using sodium and liquid diet and for being able to change the prisoner's* position and to monitor O2 saturation. I mean, the jargon sounds so professional and just like that used by medical/healthcare personnel. The techniques are so refined that you've gotta wonder how they managed to acquire so much knowledge and know-how, and how much "experience" they've had to master waterboarding and improve upon it.

Man, I really can't get over how the wording is so similar to what we're accustomed to in the healthcare profession. The meticulous documentation, of how much water was used, how long it was done, etc. is just like making nurse's notes on a patient's chart!

So, yeah. This is just very wrong and shows that CIA torture is very, very systemic.


*When I was writing "prisoner" I almost wrote "client" or "patient". Yikes.

Dick Cheney's involvement isn't anything new. This isn't the first time he's done this shit.
School of the Americas wiki article wrote:On September 20, 1996, the Pentagon released seven training manuals prepared by the U.S. military and used between 1987 and 1991 in Latin America and in intelligence training courses at the U.S. School of the Americas (SOA). The manuals were based in part on lesson plans used by the school as far back as 1982 and, in turn, based in part on older material from Project X.[2] According to Lisa Haugaard of School of the Americas Watch, these manuals taught repressive techniques and promoted the violation of human rights throughout Latin America and around the globe.[17] The manuals contain instructions in motivation by fear, bounties for enemy dead, false imprisonment, torture, execution, and kidnapping a target's family members. The Pentagon admitted that these manuals were a "mistake".[18]

After this investigation the Department of Defense discontinued the use of the manuals, directed their recovery to the extent practicable, and destroyed the copies in the field. U.S. Southern Command advised governments in Latin America that the manuals contained passages that did not represent U.S. government policy, and pursued recovery of the manuals from the governments and some individual students.[19] Notably, David Addington and Dick Cheney retained personal copies of the training manuals.
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Re: Waterboarding for Dummies - CIA Guidelines on Torture

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Shroom Man 777 wrote:That article was very eerie in that it's so clinical and medically "sound". I can see the rationale for using sodium and liquid diet and for being able to change the prisoner's* position and to monitor O2 saturation. I mean, the jargon sounds so professional and just like that used by medical/healthcare personnel. The techniques are so refined that you've gotta wonder how they managed to acquire so much knowledge and know-how, and how much "experience" they've had to master waterboarding and improve upon it.
Remember that the US has been involved in many wars since WW2 and I would be surprised if some manuals for interrogation and torture would not have had fallen into their hands during that period - especially so since the US also supported some of the most brutal Third World regimes around to halt the bogeyman of communism. And the US also has had ready access to the information gathered by the Nazis and the Japanese during the Second World War and they had no moral hickups with outright killing people during "medical experiments"; some of those techniques may have been utilized in order to study interrogation and make it more effective.

And, of course, there is always the almost perverse element of human ingenuity when cruelty, sadism, malice and sheer ruthlessness are involved. Human mind has created many terrifying instruments of torture and terror and it will continue to do so whenever reason and humanity fall asleep.
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Re: Waterboarding for Dummies - CIA Guidelines on Torture

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

The worst thing is that for the worst part of this decade, the people who were in charge were these terrible morally bankrupt psychos - the very same ones who pulled the same shit decades ago in the 80s. It's horrible, and I find the extent of American hypocrisy and fucked-upness just difficult to fully comprehend.
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Re: Waterboarding for Dummies - CIA Guidelines on Torture

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Shroom wrote:The techniques are so refined that you've gotta wonder how they managed to acquire so much knowledge and know-how, and how much "experience" they've had to master waterboarding and improve upon it.
The US military has been using water boarding as a training technique for decades to prepare members who could be captured by enemy personnel to resist torture for as long as possible. IIRC, the Bush administration tapped into the SERE school trainers for their knowledge on the subject, and after decades, I'm sure they had plenty of data and experience on how to do it right.
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Re: Waterboarding for Dummies - CIA Guidelines on Torture

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Shroom Man 777 wrote:The worst thing is that for the worst part of this decade, the people who were in charge were these terrible morally bankrupt psychos - the very same ones who pulled the same shit decades ago in the 80s. It's horrible, and I find the extent of American hypocrisy and fucked-upness just difficult to fully comprehend.

Sure, but if you think its just America that's guilty of this type of hypocrisy...well I'd like to live in your fantasy world for awhile.
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Re: Waterboarding for Dummies - CIA Guidelines on Torture

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

Other nations don't proclaim themselves to be representing freedom and democracy while drowning people and propping regimes. Countries like Russia and China don't make allusions to being the "good guys", much more so those nations who are in the "Axis of Evil". America pretends it's the good guy, it openly states that it wants to police the world, yet for all it's talk America's more like the cop who curbstomped Rodney King. This is what makes them (bigger) hypocrites.
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Re: Waterboarding for Dummies - CIA Guidelines on Torture

Post by MKSheppard »

I kind of think that my signature says it all. Whatever we may do, our enemies are fifty to a hundred times infinitely worse.
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Re: Waterboarding for Dummies - CIA Guidelines on Torture

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Also, with Bush, this was all "in-house", allowing QC control, and crosscheckings of what they claimed with what other guys claim, what we've captured, etc etc, rather than having to rely on the "outsourced" intel we got during Clinton and now under Obama, which basically consisted of nice pakistanis applying cigarette lighters to various parts of the "renditioned's" anatomy, and then writing letters back to the CIA about what the guy said.
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Re: Waterboarding for Dummies - CIA Guidelines on Torture

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MKSheppard wrote:I kind of think that my signature says it all. Whatever we may do, our enemies are fifty to a hundred times infinitely worse.
"It's okay if I bleed one of your breasts since our enemies are fifty to a hundred times infinitely worse and will bleed BOTH your milkbags instead! And he'll cunt your eyes too!" is a pretty poor justification of atrocities, Shep. :P Though if you could show a graph on atrocities from the 1950s, it'd be much appreciated. ;)

And "in-housing" or whatever Bush did doesn't change the fact that torturing is WRONG!
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Re: Waterboarding for Dummies - CIA Guidelines on Torture

Post by MKSheppard »

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Though if you could show a graph on atrocities from the 1950s, it'd be much appreciated. ;)
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Re: Waterboarding for Dummies - CIA Guidelines on Torture

Post by eion »

Shroom Man 777 wrote:
And "in-housing" or whatever Bush did doesn't change the fact that torturing is WRONG!
worse than wrong, it's ineffective. A person will say ANYTHING to stop it. Of course these people admitted connections between Iraq & Al-Qaeda. I'd be amazed if they didn't confess to kidnaping the Lindbergh baby and murdering Jesus.

Torture isn't about extracting useful information, it is about punishment; it is revenge. And you have to choose, do you want to win, or do you want to beat them because you can't often do both.
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Re: Waterboarding for Dummies - CIA Guidelines on Torture

Post by Admiral Valdemar »

MKSheppard wrote:I kind of think that my signature says it all. Whatever we may do, our enemies are fifty to a hundred times infinitely worse.
Basically, we'll kill and torture those who repulse us in their killing and torturing.

Gotcha. Like the good ol' fashioned state execution: teach murder is bad by a spectacle of state sanctioned murder.

The idea is to eradicate "evil", not become it. Else why is the US still wearing kiddy gloves in the ME? Fucking nuke the place already, you pussies. What, you ran out of BUFFs and cruise missiles?
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Re: Waterboarding for Dummies - CIA Guidelines on Torture

Post by loomer »

The involvement of doctors, nurses and psychologists in the torture ops has been known since at least 2006. The adjustments to the processes are not for the welfare of the detainees, they are purely to make the situation extendable. Even the liquid diet of Ensure plus is used as a form of torture - detainees are forcefed through a nasal tube, which is inserted with undue force and then removed the same way. This includes when they are willing to eat normally, in some cases.

This involvement is so completely unethical that if we ever get a regime in American power that does prosecute over this that I would not rest until the medical personnel involved in the program were permanently barred from practicing medicine - using their training to maximize the suffering of another human being is the ultimate perversion of their role in society.
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Re: Waterboarding for Dummies - CIA Guidelines on Torture

Post by Stark »

MKSheppard wrote:I kind of think that my signature says it all. Whatever we may do, our enemies are fifty to a hundred times infinitely worse.
Prove it.

Hey, while you're at it, prove everyone waterboarded was even an 'enemy', and prove that they could have been convicted of anything. Your silence in the threads about how many illegally detained individuals were held on zero or false evidence is hilariuos so this will be great.
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Re: Waterboarding for Dummies - CIA Guidelines on Torture

Post by loomer »

MKSheppard wrote:I kind of think that my signature says it all. Whatever we may do, our enemies are fifty to a hundred times infinitely worse.
What about Dilawar of Yakubi, Shep? He's an older part of the neverending stream of abuse inflicted by Americans.

Let me refresh your memory. Innocent taxi driver, no connection to terrorist or insurgent groups. Picked up in 2002. Chained to the ceiling at Bagram, and beaten around the legs so savagely that his knees could no longer bend. Left to hang by his chains so long that his shoulders dislocated. Eventually murdered by his captors - this is fact. This is confirmed by the US Army itself.

They beat an innocent man to death, Shep, because he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Even if he'd lived, the damage was so extensive that his legs would have had to be amputated. Can you honestly say that America's enemies are worse? Can you honestly say that this served any purpose?
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Re: Waterboarding for Dummies - CIA Guidelines on Torture

Post by Iosef Cross »

What the US is doing is completely normal and expected.

That's because that's how the world works: Each State is independent from other states and there is no ruling body of the States. That means that each country lives in complete anarchy with each other, so in that case the rule of the strongest that counts and the strongest thug maintains hegemonic status over the other countries.

The US is presently the world's hegemonic state, and hence he provides the service of keeping other states in line, to preserve the international order. However, to maintain this service it is necessary to be brutal and to kill innocents once and while. However, the hegemonic state also maintain it's hegemony by the force of ideas: They present themselves as the good guys lower resistance and hence costs of maintaining their hegemon status.

China and Russia aren't hegemonic countries (yet), so they don't need to present themselves as the good guys to the international community.
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Formless
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Re: Waterboarding for Dummies - CIA Guidelines on Torture

Post by Formless »

Iosef Cross wrote:What the US is doing is completely normal and expected.

That's because that's how the world works: Each State is independent from other states and there is no ruling body of the States. That means that each country lives in complete anarchy with each other, so in that case the rule of the strongest that counts and the strongest thug maintains hegemonic status over the other countries.
Fuck you.
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Re: Waterboarding for Dummies - CIA Guidelines on Torture

Post by loomer »

Iosef Cross wrote:snip
None of which justifies torture or makes it an iota more moral, shitfucker.
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Re: Waterboarding for Dummies - CIA Guidelines on Torture

Post by Samuel »

Of the top of my head Venezuela is counted as one of the US enemies and Hugo Chavez doesn't torture people. I'm not positive, and I know he works with Castro (who locks up political prisoners), but most of the stuff he does are just general authoritarian populist/leftist activities. So no, not all our enemies are worse or as bad as the US.
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Re: Waterboarding for Dummies - CIA Guidelines on Torture

Post by ShadowDragon8685 »

Formless wrote:
Iosef Cross wrote:What the US is doing is completely normal and expected.

That's because that's how the world works: Each State is independent from other states and there is no ruling body of the States. That means that each country lives in complete anarchy with each other, so in that case the rule of the strongest that counts and the strongest thug maintains hegemonic status over the other countries.
Fuck you.
No-one could have put it better; I don't think any fewer words suffice to convey the magnitude of contempt I find for Iosef's statement, and a greater number of words dilutes the impact.

Fortunately, a picture is worth one thousand (1,000) words, so two pictures will be worth two thousand (2,000) words on the topic: :finger: :wanker:

The very idea of the derailment of my country's principles, the cashing in of values we purported to hold dear in the names of expediency and violent revenge, is abhorrant and disusting. This is 2010, not 1010. This sort of behavior is not acceptable, and speaking as an American Citizen, I very much want to see those responsible hauled before a court in fucking irons and made to defend themselves and their actions in light of day, to watch them squirm and try to explain why the actions we found worthy of hanging in Nazis and Imperial Japanese somehow become okay when commited under the Red, White and Blue.

Their actions have soiled that standard, they've wiped their shitty asses with the flag they purport to have been defending. Their brand of defense, of support, we need not!
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Way to overwork a metaphor Shadow. I feel really creeped out now.
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Re: Waterboarding for Dummies - CIA Guidelines on Torture

Post by Havok »

Iosef Cross wrote:What the US is doing is completely normal and expected.

That's because that's how the world works: Each State is independent from other states and there is no ruling body of the States. That means that each country lives in complete anarchy with each other, so in that case the rule of the strongest that counts and the strongest thug maintains hegemonic status over the other countries.

The US is presently the world's hegemonic state, and hence he provides the service of keeping other states in line, to preserve the international order. However, to maintain this service it is necessary to be brutal and to kill innocents once and while. However, the hegemonic state also maintain it's hegemony by the force of ideas: They present themselves as the good guys lower resistance and hence costs of maintaining their hegemon status.

China and Russia aren't hegemonic countries (yet), so they don't need to present themselves as the good guys to the international community.
You really outta look up the Geneva Conventions sometimes twit.

Edit: Goddamnit Formless. Touche good sir, touche. :D
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