Terrance Stamp: Ultramarine.

[Srelex]

they could always bring the Dawn of War fluff into the mainstream and do Blood Ravens.

Eh, 'Blood Ravens' doesn't make you think 40k as 'Ultramarines' does.

[Stark]

Why not? 99% of the world has no idea what an Ultramarine is. You're not going to make a blockbuster movie playing at the tabletop crowd; even the DoW market is pretty small.

[Aaron]

Why not? 99% of the world has no idea what an Ultramarine is. You're not going to make a blockbuster movie playing at the tabletop crowd; even the DoW market is pretty small.

That is apparently what they are doing, one of the actors in the video says it's being made for the fans who have supported it for the last 20 years. How accurate that is, wait and see I suppose.

[Vendetta]

Why not? 99% of the world has no idea what an Ultramarine is. You're not going to make a blockbuster movie playing at the tabletop crowd; even the DoW market is pretty small.

I think to be really successful, a licensed product does have to have the fans of the thing that's being licensed on-side. They are your initial generators of word of mouth, which is increasingly important as the internet becomes a principal means of advertising. Also, the things that attracted fans to the product you have licensed are generally going to be it's strongest features. If you don't play to those strengths you don't make a good adaptation, and if you do you keep the fans happy.

It worked for Spider-Man, and it's kinda worked for Transformers (though, obviously, the fact that Michael Bay can only direct special effects and thus tends to treat flesh and blood actors, especially Megan Fox, as special effects hampers that).

[Stark]

Sure, but to get 40k guys onside you don't have to use xyz chapter. I don't think using the UM hurts it, but I don't think it really helps either.

I mean if it was Space Viking Werewovles it probably would hurt the movie, by contrast.

[Bob the Gunslinger]

That's pretty much my point. The Ultramarines are the chapter least likely to make the movie unwatchable for the many fans ]i]and[/i] non-fans out there.

[Ryan Thunder]

They better not just make this "Animated Tabletop Models 40K".

The artwork... I mean, the bolter shells don't even fit into the barrel, goddamnit.

[Bob the Gunslinger]

Why not? 99% of the world has no idea what an Ultramarine is. You're not going to make a blockbuster movie playing at the tabletop crowd; even the DoW market is pretty small.

I'm not sure GW can use the Blood Ravens. I'm not really up to date on the legal details, but I have heard that Relic (or whoever made the game) actually owns the rights to the Blood Ravens chapter and their iconography, which limits what GW can do with the chapter. Even if that's not true, the Blood Ravens are another "Dark Secret" chapter who don't even realize that their Primarch is Magnus the Red and that they have the geneseed of a traitor legion. Having a chapter with an identity crisis and no real home is probably not going to improve the movie any unless the movie deals with that back story itself, which it wouldn't since the video games already covered that ground.

The Blood Ravens may have some name-recognition going for them, but they also have some weak background and no really iconic characters or story to flesh out yet, which makes them a weak prospect for a movie.

[Tanasinn]

I'd rather it be about the Imperial Guard than roid raging power-armored supermen, but that's just me.

[Cykeisme]

Ultramarines familiarity (a possible reason for the choice) may be pretty obscure, only appealing to 40k fans, but all the anti-Ultramarines sentiments are even more seated in serious obscure fandom.. so it's probably a good chapter to focus on.

Having a chapter with an identity crisis and no real home is probably not going to improve the movie any unless the movie deals with that back story itself, which it wouldn't since the video games already covered that ground.

I agree with Bob almost entirely, and the little thingy I'd like to point out reinforces his point more, in fact.
The Blood Ravens' history hasn't yet been fully overtly revealed in the games, and Relic would want to retain the rights to expand on their background in future games. So, yeah, they probably wouldn't want a product to cash in on the Blood Ravens without Relic getting a piece of the pie.

[Cykeisme]

I'd rather it be about the Imperial Guard than roid raging power-armored supermen, but that's just me.

..but they're quintessential 40k.
Besides, that description isn't entirely fair.. they're roid raging power-armored religiously fanatical supermonks!

[NecronLord]

Imperial Fists are the only big name chapter that springs to mind that might be more liked. And UMs are exemplars of Marineness.

[Aaron]

I'm not sure GW can use the Blood Ravens. I'm not really up to date on the legal details, but I have heard that Relic (or whoever made the game) actually owns the rights to the Blood Ravens chapter and their iconography, which limits what GW can do with the chapter. Even if that's not true, the Blood Ravens are another "Dark Secret" chapter who don't even realize that their Primarch is Magnus the Red and that they have the geneseed of a traitor legion. Having a chapter with an identity crisis and no real home is probably not going to improve the movie any unless the movie deals with that back story itself, which it wouldn't since the video games already covered that ground.

The Blood Ravens may have some name-recognition going for them, but they also have some weak background and no really iconic characters or story to flesh out yet, which makes them a weak prospect for a movie.

Wait, the Blood Ravens are descended from Magnus? Where did you hear this?

[Ugolino]

Their paint job may be boring, but it's not awful. And it's pretty hard to compare it to the Imperial Fists, Blood Angels or Space Wolves paint jobs and say it's worse than them. So, it's a bit monotone. So what? At least it's a good color for good guys and doesn't make then look like fire hydrants.

Personally, I happen to like the space wolves and blood angels. The latter's paintjob is a bit too bright for my tastes, though. Have to agree on the Imperial Fists.

Still, even by the standards of Ultramarine love, the Codex is over the top.

Why don't they use a new chapter or even an obscure one like the Raptors? It's not as though people won't recognize a spess marine if it's brown instead of blue, and there's already far too much Ultramarine stuff.

The Blood Ravens may have some name-recognition going for them, but they also have some weak background and no really iconic characters or story to flesh out yet, which makes them a weak prospect for a movie.

Gabrielos Angelos comes to mind. Issues with DOW appearances aside, he'd be an interesting protagonist. As for background, it's not as though Goto's nonsense is canon...

A Blood Ravens movie would be better, to be honest. If nothing else, they have a better paintjob.

[Cykeisme]

Gabrielos Angelos comes to mind. Issues with DOW appearances aside, he'd be an interesting protagonist.

Gabriel Angelos' voicework was awesome in the very first Dawn of War. Dawn of War II's voice acting (and casting) was overall lacklustre in terms of character and atmosphere, IMO.

Wait, the Blood Ravens are descended from Magnus?

The Blood Ravens have been hinted to be descended from perhaps Magnus the Red or Lorgar, or possibly one of the two unnamed Primarchs whose names were mysteriously expunged before the Great Crusade even went into full swing.

Officially, nothing has been confirmed.
In-universe, the truth, whatever it is, is something only Brother-Captain Davian Thule knows, and isn't telling.

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

Bit of a side note; while I agree the Blood Ravens wouldn't make a very good centerpiece for the first real 40k film, they have been getting some good characterization and fluff, mostly in the form of the just-released Chaos Rising.

Angelos and Thule both get some fleshing out, as does Librarian Jonah and the squaddies from DoW2. It also introduces a number of key individuals in the Chapter - Captain Diomedes of the Honor Guard and Chapter Master Kyrah, most notably.

[Manus Celer Dei]

I'm not sure GW can use the Blood Ravens. I'm not really up to date on the legal details, but I have heard that Relic (or whoever made the game) actually owns the rights to the Blood Ravens chapter and their iconography, which limits what GW can do with the chapter.

The Blood Ravens have been in a couple of novels and articles in White Dwarf, so I don't think Relic are likely to be dicks about letting them be used, though with something as relatively high-profile as this I could understand GW erring on the side of caution.

-The Raven Guard: The Tim Burton Marines. Maybe GW will someday use them to film The Nightmare Before Emperor's Day.

Man, I'd watch that. The idea of Corax and a bunch of space marines prancing around singing "This is halloween!" is too funny to pass up.

[Lord Revan]

Wait, the Blood Ravens are descended from Magnus? Where did you hear this?

I'm pretty sure it's never officially said who is the unknown Primarch the Blood Raven decend from, IIRC Magnus the Red was said to be 1 possible (if unlikely) option due to the high number of psykers in the Blood Raven ranks (I don't got Chaos Rising yet so if it's said clearly there feel free to correct me).

[Bob the Gunslinger]

Wait, the Blood Ravens are descended from Magnus? Where did you hear this?

It's stated about as clearly as any chapter's dark secret is in A Thousand Sons. Not only are there special Corvidae kSons, but there are a few scenes where scryers/psykers/kSons rant about ravens, particularly the "Ravens of Blood searching for knowledge and salvation". Magnus sends the fleet away from Prospero with secret orders. MacNeill didn't exactly draw us a diagram, but it's pretty clear what he's getting at.

[Aaron]

Ahh, I haven't gotten to that novel yet.

[Bob the Gunslinger]

Personally, I happen to like the space wolves and blood angels. The latter's paintjob is a bit too bright for my tastes, though. Have to agree on the Imperial Fists.

I don't really hate those paint schemes, but they're not my thing, either. The Space Wolves come in two color schemes: "I though Space Wolves were grey and not baby blue" and "I don't think you painted this model." Blood angels also come in two color schemes: "Horribly patchy brown-red" and "I bought the Foundation paints so my Blood Angels now look like Khorne Berserkers without the glitz." I tend to like paintjobs that are either more subdued or outlandishly over-the-top, like Sanguinor, or the Grey Knights Terminators. Bright primary colors just seem too tacky for crazed supermonks. At least the Ultramarines area heroic blue shade, like Superman or the 1st player in Contra.

Still, even by the standards of Ultramarine love, the Codex is over the top.

Why don't they use a new chapter or even an obscure one like the Raptors? It's not as though people won't recognize a spess marine if it's brown instead of blue, and there's already far too much Ultramarine stuff.

True, they would be recognizable as space marines, but without years and years of background, there won't be as much for the scriptwriter to work with, and fewer possibilities for the sequels. Besides, GW wants to make money, so they need a chapter that already has a lot of tie in merchandise, like novels, models, paints, "How to Paint Your Models" books, etc.. The Ultramarines have all that. The Raptors don't.

Gabrielos Angelos comes to mind. Issues with DOW appearances aside, he'd be an interesting protagonist. As for background, it's not as though Goto's nonsense is canon...

A Blood Ravens movie would be better, to be honest. If nothing else, they have a better paintjob.

I agree about the paint job, but not about the positive outcome of any movie written about the Blood Ravens. I think GW would be too constrained by their big, dark secret, hindering the story or else blowing the chapter's fluff load in one go and turning them into "Red Dark Angels".


EDIT: Sorry for the spoilers, CPLKendall.

[Aaron]

No problem Bob, more then likely I'll forget and wind up asking the same question the next time it comes up.

[Sidewinder]

I mean if it was Space Viking Werewovles it probably would hurt the movie, by contrast.

I think it would help the movie if the plot was "National Lampoon's Animal House in the 41st millenium, starring the Space Vikings!" instead of "The Passion of the Christ in the 41st millenium, starring Smurfs so self-righteous and uptight, they make Brainy look like Jokey."

[NecronLord]

The Blood Ravens are even more disliked than the Ultras, and their fluff is basically 'we love witches' which isn't the best introduction to the setting.

[Srelex]

The Blood Ravens are even more disliked than the Ultras,

They are? I was always under the impression that the fandom was generally indifferent to them.