Texas BOE decide Thomas Jefferson is not that great

[Civil War Man]

The article

Blog of the meeting where the vote is taken

(March 12) -- Widely regarded as one of the most important of all the founding fathers of the United States, Thomas Jefferson received a demotion of sorts Friday thanks to the Texas Board of Education.

The board voted to enact new teaching standards for history and social studies that will alter which material gets included in school textbooks. It decided to drop Jefferson from a world history section devoted to great political thinkers.

According to Texas Freedom Network, a group that opposes many of the changes put in place by the Board of Education, the original curriculum asked students to "explain the impact of Enlightenment ideas from John Locke, Thomas Hobbes, Voltaire, Charles de Montesquieu, Jean Jacques Rousseau and Thomas Jefferson on political revolutions from 1750 to the present."

That emphasis did not sit well with board member Cynthia Dunbar, who, during Friday's meeting, explained the rationale for changing it. "The Enlightenment was not the only philosophy on which these revolutions were based," Dunbar said.

The new standard, passed at the meeting in a 10-5 vote, now reads, "Explain the impact of the writings of John Locke, Thomas Hobbes, Voltaire, Charles de Montesquieu, Jean Jacques Rousseau, Thomas Aquinas, John Calvin and Sir William Blackstone."

By dropping mention of revolution, and substituting figures such as Aquinas and Calvin for Jefferson, Texas Freedom Network argues, the board had chosen to embrace religious teachings over those of Jefferson, the man who coined the phrase "separation between church and state."

According to USA Today, the board also voted to strike the word "democratic" from references to the U.S. form of government, replacing it with the term "constitutional republic." Texas textbooks will contain references to "laws of nature and nature's God" in passages that discuss major political ideas.

The board decided to use the words "free enterprise" when describing the U.S. economic system rather than words such as "capitalism," "capitalist" and "free market," which it deemed to have a negative connotation.

Serving 4.7 million students, Texas accounts for a large percentage of the textbook market, and the new standards may influence what is taught in the rest of the country.

In summary:
- In the unit on influential political thinkers in world history, mentions of Thomas Jefferson and the Enlightenment are removed while John Calvin and Thomas Aquinas are added.
- United States is no longer referred to as a democracy, but a constitutional republic (so kids don't get confused and start thinking that Democrats do anything but hate America)
- The US is also apparently no longer a capitalist society, or a free market society, but a "free enterprise" society

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

- United States is no longer referred to as a democracy, but a constitutional republic (so kids don't get confused and start thinking that Democrats do anything but hate America)

Most of these changes are incredibly stupid (cue "Texas sucks" ranting), but this part is accurate. "Democracy" is a misnomer; most so-called "democracies" are republics of some variety.

[Oscar Wilde]

- United States is no longer referred to as a democracy, but a constitutional republic (so kids don't get confused and start thinking that Democrats do anything but hate America)

Most of these changes are incredibly stupid (cue "Texas sucks" ranting), but this part is accurate. "Democracy" is a misnomer; most so-called "democracies" are republics of some variety.

But it's still probably less of a fact based change and more of a politically based one.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Thomas Aquinas, John Calvin and Sir William Blackstone

I wonder if students will get penalized for noting that none of these individuals had anything good to say...

[Witch]

- United States is no longer referred to as a democracy, but a constitutional republic (so kids don't get confused and start thinking that Democrats do anything but hate America)

Most of these changes are incredibly stupid (cue "Texas sucks" ranting), but this part is accurate. "Democracy" is a misnomer; most so-called "democracies" are republics of some variety.

I'm baffled by the idea that 'democracy' has some well-defined meaning by which the United States and most countries termed democratic are actually undemocratic. Secondly, it is absurd that most so-called democracies are republics of some variety (at least if you suppose they have a great majority - I haven't counted) given the existence of democratically governed monarchies.

I obviously don't know the full context of their treatment in the book, but including the study of the political thought of John Calvin and Thomas Aquinas seems, to me, to be a good idea. This does not necessarily mean they must be approved of - but these were important intellectuals, whose thought had a significant influence in Europe - and, eventually, beyond. Supporting the notion that they had nothing good to say seems absurd and bigoted, by the way.


There is, ofcourse, a significant problem in the belief that 'the Enlightenment' is somehow a single philosophy, when you could probably find Enlightenment intellectuals who disagreed on just about everything.

[Simon_Jester]

- United States is no longer referred to as a democracy, but a constitutional republic (so kids don't get confused and start thinking that Democrats do anything but hate America)

Most of these changes are incredibly stupid (cue "Texas sucks" ranting), but this part is accurate. "Democracy" is a misnomer; most so-called "democracies" are republics of some variety.

This seems to be the language evolving more than anything else. Direct democracies are so rare, and republics so common, that the word "democracy" no longer means pure popular vote to the average person. It's a general term, with "republics" being a subset of "democracies." A big subset, too...

[Teebs]

On the subject of the word 'democracy', I don't get where all the Americans are coming from. Never mind the average person, all of the academic discourse that I've encountered (politics undergraduate at Oxford) authors have quite happily used democracy while talking about European and American governmental systems. This odd idea that Republic is the correct term is something that I've never encountered off the internet and either way makes the term essentially meaningless it defines it so narrowly.

[Elfdart]

Thomas Aquinas, John Calvin and Sir William Blackstone

I wonder if students will get penalized for noting that none of these individuals had anything good to say...

Aquinas is the one who wrote that it's better to rape a woman than to masturbate because every sperm is sacred. He's perfect as the patron saint of Dumbfuckistan.

[Witch]

It seems to me that the intellectual basis which Aquinas used to justify such positions does not indicate him as a dumb fuck, but simply as a product of his time.

[Andrew J.]

Thomas Aquinas, John Calvin and Sir William Blackstone

I wonder if students will get penalized for noting that none of these individuals had anything good to say...

You take that back about Blackstone! He wrote the common law treatise of the eighteenth century.

[Molyneux]

Thomas Aquinas, John Calvin and Sir William Blackstone

I wonder if students will get penalized for noting that none of these individuals had anything good to say...

Aquinas is the one who wrote that it's better to rape a woman than to masturbate because every sperm is sacred. He's perfect as the patron saint of Dumbfuckistan.

That one, I hadn't heard before.
I wonder how the board of ed members would react to having that little tidbit brought to their attention (or included in the curriculum)?

[Alyrium Denryle]

Thomas Aquinas, John Calvin and Sir William Blackstone

I wonder if students will get penalized for noting that none of these individuals had anything good to say...

You take that back about Blackstone! He wrote the common law treatise of the eighteenth century.

He may well have done that... But some of the things he had to say were deplorable.

“The husband and wife are one, and that one is the husband.”

Justification for spousal rape which kept that legal until IIRC this century.

“So great moreover is the regard of the law for private property, that it will not authorize the least violation of it; no, not even for the general good of the whole community”

Etc etc etc.

No wonder the funditarians included him.

[Witch]

One can find statements or concepts controversial from a contemporary point of view in the statements of all those authors. Most Enlightenment thinkers were horribly racist, for instance. In fact, they were among the first racists, as the classification of humanity into different races had only just been developed. (This does not mean that there was no discrimination based on skill color before, ofcourse.)

Frankly, these moral interpretations are quite irrelevant. A historical survey of political ideologies should not avoid particular ideologies because they are unacceptable to contemporary morality.

[Knife]

Well on the one hand, Jefferson represents most of the 'States Rights' bit that runs rampant in the south, as well as a big portion of Founding Fathers worship; so I'm glad he got dropped a notch since even in his time, the strong State weak Fed was totally ditched. Then again, to replace it with Thomas Aquinas just boggles my mind.

[Junghalli]

Aquinas is the one who wrote that it's better to rape a woman than to masturbate because every sperm is sacred.

I thought it was that it was better to sleep with a prostitute than masturbate. Or is it somebody else that said that?

[Highlord Laan]

Jesus titfucking christ. Can we just wall off Texas already? Please? We can even grant them national independence, then invade and bomb the fuck out of it.

[The Yosemite Bear]

- United States is no longer referred to as a democracy, but a constitutional republic (so kids don't get confused and start thinking that Democrats do anything but hate America)

Most of these changes are incredibly stupid (cue "Texas sucks" ranting), but this part is accurate. "Democracy" is a misnomer; most so-called "democracies" are republics of some variety.

to quote Gore Vidal: The Last Democracy this world has seen died at the end of the Pelopenisian War.

[Dominus Atheos]

Just to clarify: THOMAS JEFFERSON WAS ONLY REMOVED FROM 1 (ONE) UNIT

Jefferson is still taught in several other units. From a Texas Education Agency press release on the subject:

Abraham Lincoln and George Washington have been removed from the textbooks.

The truth: The standards, not textbook, are before the board this week. Lincoln is required to be included in the first and eighth grade history classes, as well as in the U.S. government class. Washington is required to be taught in kindergarten, first grade, fifth grade and eighth grade. Here is a link to a document detailing those historical figures, including Lincoln and Washington, who are required to be taught as part of the standards: http://ritter.tea.state.tx.us/teks/soci ... luding.pdf. There is another list of individuals who are suggested for inclusion and it can be found here: http://ritter.tea.state.tx.us/teks/soci ... uch_as.pdf. Additional modifications are still possible to both lists as the board debates the standards during its March and May meeting.

Jefferson Thomas Grade 5
Jefferson Thomas Grade 8
Jefferson Thomas U.S. Government
Jefferson Thomas World History

[Guardsman Bass]

Aquinas had a pretty prominent role in one of the college classes I took ("Foundations of Business Thought"), which largely talked about the various philosophies and ideas that have defined the nature of markets and business in the US. Considering that many of these people are hard-core capitalists as well as religious folks, it's not surprising that they'd want to see a thinker like that have a more important role.

That emphasis did not sit well with board member Cynthia Dunbar, who, during Friday's meeting, explained the rationale for changing it. "The Enlightenment was not the only philosophy on which these revolutions were based," Dunbar said.

Ah, Cynthia Dunbar - the religious nutbar who sent all her kids to private religious schools and once called the public school system "unconstitutional" as well as a "deceptive tool of perversion", yet still feels the need to sit on the public school board as a Republican (and what the fuck is with having partisan school boards?) to shove her religion down the throats of other people's children.

[Patrick Degan]

Amazing isn't it how today's Conservatives™ so favour Soviet-style ideological conformity and indoctrination of the young.

[The Yosemite Bear]

it's their eternal embarrasment that they weren't able to pass re-education camps, and Gulags, for those who disagree with them....

[Elfdart]

This kind of stupidity is typical in Texas. Many years ago we had a governor (Miriam "Ma" Ferguson) who said that there's no need for public schools to teach foreign languages. After all, the Bible was written in English and if English was good enough for Jesus...

[Admiral Valdemar]

This kind of stupidity is typical in Texas. Many years ago we had a governor (Miriam "Ma" Ferguson) who said that there's no need for public schools to teach foreign languages. After all, the Bible was written in English and if English was good enough for Jesus...

Your politicians are better comedians than ours.

[Thanas]

The new unit does not make any sense:

John Locke, Thomas Hobbes, Voltaire, Charles de Montesquieu, Jean Jacques Rousseau, Thomas Aquinas, John Calvin and Sir William Blackstone."

I get Locke, Hobbes, Voltaire, Montesquieu and Rousseau. Maybe even Blackstone. But why do Calvin and Aquinas belong in there? Could it be that they are the only religious examples from that list? This is turning a somewhat narrow selection centered on the 18th century to a selection in which you have 6 modern and two medieval/reformation philosophers. What is even worse, why include Calvin, but not Thomas Morus or Erasmus? Could it be because the person leading this committee is an evangelist, hence calvin?

And why drop Jefferson? Could it be because he is the most anti-religious of the lot? However, to western world and law and society his contribution is undoubtedly greater than that of Blackstone, so why drop him in favor of the latter?

None of this makes much sense.

[Civil War Man]

Well on the one hand, Jefferson represents most of the 'States Rights' bit that runs rampant in the south, as well as a big portion of Founding Fathers worship; so I'm glad he got dropped a notch since even in his time, the strong State weak Fed was totally ditched. Then again, to replace it with Thomas Aquinas just boggles my mind.

Even if he is a major figure in Founding Father worship, removing him from a unit on influential political writers is idiotic.