Revenge Of The Sith... Damnit?

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Channel72
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Re: Revenge Of The Sith... Damnit?

Post by Channel72 »

Formless wrote:The fight between Mace Windu Samuel L. motherfucking Jackson and Palpatine is probably the worst lightsaber duel in the series (its waaayyy too obvious neither actor knows what they are doing with a sword, and I remember the camera work not helping things, even considering the close quarters nature of the scene).
Palpatine, like Yoda, should really be above lightsabre combat. It would have been much more chilling and effective if the scene went something like this: Mace Windu and the other three Jedi ignite their lightsabres to intimidate Palpatine. Palpatine just sits there behind his desk and closes his eyes. Then all four Jedi start choking to death. One Jedi drops his lightsabre and accidentally kills himself with it. The other two fall to the floor choking. Windu nearly chokes to death but ultimately summons the strength to overcome Palpatine's power, and at the last second breaks free of the choke hold and forces Palpatine into the corner with his lightsabre. Scene continues as usual...
Galvatron wrote:Did anyone else notice that Palpatine openly referred to Dooku as a Sith Lord? When did Dooku ever actually drop the pretense of leading the separatist movement because the Republic was under the influence of Darth Sidious? I don't recall him ever admitting he was a Sith in AOTC.
Well, I guess Dooku sort of gave himself away at the end of AotC when he used force lightning and then pulled out a red lightsabre.
Galvatron wrote:The showdown with Grievous might have carried some weight if he'd been around long enough for us to care. Imagine if he and Maul were both in TPM; both apprentices of Sidious (fuck the rule of two). Maul dies the same way while Grievous escapes after killing Qui-Gon.
In a way, Grievous's role is analogous to Jabba the Hutt. He's a second-tier, non-force-using villain who appears in the first half of the last film. He could have worked, if, like Jabba, the previous movie had built-up a reputation for him somehow. If we had heard about some bad-ass cyborg general named Grievous in Episode II, then it would have been more interesting to see him in Episode III. Also, he presented a (missed) opportunity to invoke a parallel with RotJ in terms of showcasing Anakin's powers. Jabba the Hutt served to showcase Luke's newfound Jedi abilities to the audience. Grievous could have been used to showcase Anakin's darkside powers. Perhaps in the battle with Grievous, Anakin could force-choke him or something, which causes him to start wheezing, thus showing the audience that Anakin has been dabbling with the dark-side.
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Re: Revenge Of The Sith... Damnit?

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Channel72 wrote: He could have worked, if, like Jabba, the previous movie had built-up a reputation for him somehow. If we had heard about some bad-ass cyborg general named Grievous in Episode II, then it would have been more interesting to see him in Episode III.
Well, to be fair, that's kinda what the 2D Clone Wars cartoon and various novels/comics tried to do prior to the movie.
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Re: Revenge Of The Sith... Damnit?

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

Um, we did see Anakin's dark side dabblings when he fucking cut off Dooku's hands and then fucking cut off Dooku's heads. :D
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Re: Revenge Of The Sith... Damnit?

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

Heads? Oh never mind
This film is definitely better than Ep 1 and 2, but it has some major fuckups in it. Like the random sabotage-droid missiles, the "shield generator" being on the OUTSIDE of the ship (I always thought that was dumb), Grievous being some bizarre CGi thing which really shouldnt have happenned

Mostly though its the bad acting from Anakin and Padme and the badly done scenes with the two of them

I agree with Havok, Ian McDiarmind saved this film. He really carried it. He managed to seem manipulative and evil and cold-hearted and all that lovely dark side stuff. Not sure about the face-melting though
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Re: Revenge Of The Sith... Damnit?

Post by Channel72 »

Revenge of the Sith was a pretty good movie. Although, sometimes I'm not entirely sure if I say that because of my lowered standards after the first two films. Regardless, considering the baggage from the previous films, RotS came out decently enough. As others have already said, McDiarmid really saved the film, even if he went over the top. However, I strongly disagree with the idea that RotS is on par with Return of the Jedi. Both were flawed films, but nothing in Revenge of the Sith compares with the pure, visceral excitement of the Battle of Endor ("it's a trap!"), or the raw emotional power of the throne room scenes on the Death Star. Plus, Han Solo.

Really, I think the biggest problem with RotS was Anakin's turn to the darkside, which was really the entire purpose of the Prequels. Oddly, there seems to be two mutually exclusive criticsms leveled at Anakin's turn: one type of criticism claims Anakin's turn to the darkside was too acute, the other claims that Anakin's turn was too linear. In other words, some people argue that it's too much to believe that Anakin would go from slicing off Windu's hand in a moment of desperation, (and then immediately regretting it), to wantonly slaughtering children five minutes later. Other people argue that Anakin's turn wasn't compelling because Anakin had no character-arc: he was always a psychotic bastard, and he was already chopping up children in the previous film.

I'm more sympathetic to the first point of view, if only because the second film itself seems to downplay the wholesale slaughter of the Tusken raiders. After Anakin slaughters them, Padme sympathizes with him, and he's still portrayed as a "good guy" for the rest of the film. Basically, AotC treats the slaughter of the Tusken raiders as a moment of weakness, and nothing more.
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Re: Revenge Of The Sith... Damnit?

Post by Galvatron »

Channel72 wrote:
Galvatron wrote:Did anyone else notice that Palpatine openly referred to Dooku as a Sith Lord? When did Dooku ever actually drop the pretense of leading the separatist movement because the Republic was under the influence of Darth Sidious? I don't recall him ever admitting he was a Sith in AOTC.
Well, I guess Dooku sort of gave himself away at the end of AotC when he used force lightning and then pulled out a red lightsabre.
I guess. Although I don't see why a red lightsaber and Force lightning necessarily mean he's a Sith. I mean, he could simply be exactly what everyone thought he was: a former Jedi working for the other side.

Not that I think it would have saved the prequels, but I think they would have been better if Dooku was genuinely a good guy and that it was the Jedi who were unwittingly fighting on the wrong side of the war.
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Re: Revenge Of The Sith... Damnit?

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

Would it have been better of Anakin didn't tell Padme that he killed the crap out of those Tusken raiders? If it was his filthy secret but Padme didn't know, or didn't want to know, and didn't ask exactly how Anakin retrieved his mother's corpse?

Yeah, the movies should've touched more on how Anakin fell. It could've used some more fucking up, rather than the disjointed forced romances and attempts at komedy. We need to see outright crazy stuff, befitting how some bright and shining hero gets turned into Darth freaking Vader. Yes, Mustafar was good for that.
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Re: Revenge Of The Sith... Damnit?

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Oni Koneko Damien wrote:Delusions of grandeur and overinflated self-importance? Check.
The only thing about this part that's accurate is the self-importance. He's the most powerful Force sensate ever and it was foretold he'd be the instrument of the balancing of the Force, he is the shit and he knows it. The desire to rule the Galaxy stems from his feelings of helplessness; he's the most powerful Force user ever and he can't keep the people he holds dear from dying, thus he feels if he controls the workings of the Galactic government he can impose his moral values upon it and stop everything he views as unfair.

So it's more: Self-Important, power hungry, control freak? Check.
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Re: Revenge Of The Sith... Damnit?

Post by Guardsman Bass »

I'm with Hav - Grievous's voice in the movie is just irritating as hell.

I much prefer the voice they gave him in the audiobook version of the Revenge of the Sith novelization. He actually sounded cold, mechanical, and cruel, not "kukukuku evil for the lulz!".
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Re: Revenge Of The Sith... Damnit?

Post by Srelex »

I think Grievous's cyberRussian accent would have been more effective if his lines were as effective as they were in the novel, as someone said.
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Re: Revenge Of The Sith... Damnit?

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Havok wrote:Dude. What the fuck? What is with all the cackling villains in the PT? Vader never laughed. And when Palpatine did it, it was truly menacing and he was genuinely taking joy in Luke's pain. The PT villains all laugh manically to themsel- OH SHIT MILLENNIUM FALCON SIGHTING! :D
Well, neither Dooku, nor Maul, nor Jango every laughed to my best recollection. That makes two major villains who laugh (Grevious and Palpatine), vs two in the Original Trilogy (Jabba and Palpatine).
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Re: Revenge Of The Sith... Damnit?

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The Romulan Republic wrote:
Havok wrote:Dude. What the fuck? What is with all the cackling villains in the PT? Vader never laughed. And when Palpatine did it, it was truly menacing and he was genuinely taking joy in Luke's pain. The PT villains all laugh manically to themsel- OH SHIT MILLENNIUM FALCON SIGHTING! :D
Well, neither Dooku, nor Maul, nor Jango every laughed to my best recollection. That makes two major villains who laugh (Grevious and Palpatine), vs two in the Original Trilogy (Jabba and Palpatine).
Little shit ball Boba Fett cackled, so did Gunray. Both in AOTC. Add that with Greivous and it is just fucking odd. I did forget about Jabba, but like with Palpatine, he is laughing AT someone, not manically cackling to himself. Also with Jabba, it seems to be part of his personality so it doesn't stand out so awkwardly.
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Re: Revenge Of The Sith... Damnit?

Post by Oni Koneko Damien »

Havok wrote:I did forget about Jabba, but like with Palpatine, he is laughing AT someone, not manically cackling to himself. Also with Jabba, it seems to be part of his personality so it doesn't stand out so awkwardly.
Yeah, the main difference is people *like* Jabba's laugh, it fits. Jabba's a decadent criminal lord who likes extravagant shows and lording his power over others, while Palpy's a truly psychotic overlord/mastermind who is quite sadistic to boot. Their laughs fit their characters perfectly.
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Re: Revenge Of The Sith... Damnit?

Post by Galvatron »

Havok wrote:Little shit ball Boba Fett cackled,
I totally forgot about that little punk. I think he was even worse than Jake Lloyd.
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Re: Revenge Of The Sith... Damnit?

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Havok wrote: Little shit ball Boba Fett cackled, so did Gunray. Both in AOTC. Add that with Greivous and it is just fucking odd.
I forgot about Boba (though I believe he did so only once, very briefly). I honestly can't recall either way for Gunray. In any case, I was focussing on major villains, but if we want to go into minor ones, well, the Clones never laugh. Come to think of it, I don't think the droids do either, but they're exceedingly stupid in their own ways.
I did forget about Jabba, but like with Palpatine, he is laughing AT someone, not manically cackling to himself. Also with Jabba, it seems to be part of his personality so it doesn't stand out so awkwardly.
For one thing, Palpatine in Revenge of the Sith cackles during his duel with Yoda, so you could suppose that he was cackling at Yoda.
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Re: Revenge Of The Sith... Damnit?

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Which I already said.
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Re: Revenge Of The Sith... Damnit?

Post by General Brock »

adam_grif wrote:
Havok wrote:Man, Palpatine clearly lost that fight. Mace kicked his ass.
Yes. However what distressed me about the scene was that Palpatine wiped the other Jedi in approximately 0.01 seconds.
Well, Jedi arrogance again. If they spread out a little more, they wouldn't have been in each other's way. But no, pose with the lightsaber and assume a Sith Lord will come quietly. I'm probably reading too much into it, but if they relied on Force reactions, their blindness and proximity to each other would have caused additional hesitation.
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Re: Revenge Of The Sith... Damnit?

Post by Havok »

OR They were just in a small office entrance and didn't have much room to maneuver and didn't have a chance to get out of it before Palpatine attacked. You'll notice Mace didn't effectively fight back until he got out into some space.
And what blindness?
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Re: Revenge Of The Sith... Damnit?

Post by Oni Koneko Damien »

Havok wrote:And what blindness?
I think he's referring to the shroud of the dark side, or the "Oh crap, if Jedi really have all the powers we've ascribed to them, they would technically be able to resolve most of the issues they face in a few seconds, we better come up with a handicap to prolong the drama stat!" rule.
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Re: Revenge Of The Sith... Damnit?

Post by Stark »

I don't see why it's surprising Palpatine could kill a few Jedi mooks; Jango could kill a Jedi simply by surprising him and Palpatine is a Sith Lord etc.
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Re: Revenge Of The Sith... Damnit?

Post by General Brock »

Havok wrote:...

Also, man, that chick in the white walking with Bail Smitts in the Tantive IV is fucking SEXY! Who is that?
Sheltray Retrac, Bail's aide and future mother of Winter Celchu, I think.
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Re: Revenge Of The Sith... Damnit?

Post by Thanas »

^ :lol:

Knowing Havok, he was looking for the real life name of the actress so he can google up some nude pictures of her. In that case, Caroline de Souza Correa.
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Re: Revenge Of The Sith... Damnit?

Post by Havok »

Oni Koneko Damien wrote:
Havok wrote:And what blindness?
I think he's referring to the shroud of the dark side, or the "Oh crap, if Jedi really have all the powers we've ascribed to them, they would technically be able to resolve most of the issues they face in a few seconds, we better come up with a handicap to prolong the drama stat!" rule.
Umm, yeah. The 'Shroud of the Dark Side' has nothing to do with the Jedi's physical abilities. It just clouds their 'vision' as far as being soothsayers. And even with that, not every Jedi has every ability.
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Re: Revenge Of The Sith... Damnit?

Post by Havok »

Thanas wrote:^ :lol:

Knowing Havok, he was looking for the real life name of the actress so he can google up some nude pictures of her. In that case, Caroline de Souza Correa.
See, Thanas gets me. :D

Edit: Hot damn. She makes me want to write some fanfiction, if you get my meaning, and I know you do. :wink:
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Re: Revenge Of The Sith... Damnit?

Post by General Brock »

Havok wrote:OR They were just in a small office entrance and didn't have much room to maneuver and didn't have a chance to get out of it before Palpatine attacked. You'll notice Mace didn't effectively fight back until he got out into some space.
And what blindness?
Blindness in sensing things in the force. Palpatine was ground zero. I admit, I may have been reading too much into it, but they seemed to be taken completely off guard, no sixth sense kicking in to warn them, or if it did, it couldn't translate into instant action.

The Jedi didn't just burst in and Palpatine attacks as they try to gain advantaged positions. Mace and Palpatine even had time to have their little exchange, while they stood beside him instead of spreading out and leveling their lightsabers at Palpatine's throat.
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