Revenge Of The Sith... Damnit?

[The Romulan Republic]

Which I already said.

Ok, I guess I misread your post. But in that case you're down to only one major villain who behaves in the manner you describe (Greivous), plus two minor villains who do it maybe once each, one of whom is just a bratty little child behaving like a bratty little child. Hardly the endemic problem in the PT you made it out to be earlier.

[Havok]

OR They were just in a small office entrance and didn't have much room to maneuver and didn't have a chance to get out of it before Palpatine attacked. You'll notice Mace didn't effectively fight back until he got out into some space.
And what blindness?

Blindness in sensing things in the force. Palpatine was ground zero. I admit, I may have been reading too much into it, but they seemed to be taken completely off guard, no sixth sense kicking in to warn them, or if it did, it couldn't translate into instant action.

The Jedi didn't just burst in and Palpatine attacks as they try to gain advantaged positions. Mace and Palpatine even had time to have their little exchange, while they stood beside him instead of spreading out and leveling their lightsabers at Palpatine's throat.

Well they can't just rush in and kill the fucking Chancellor of the Republic dude. They have to at least try to give him a chance to surrender.

[Havok]

Which I already said.

Ok, I guess I misread your post. But in that case you're down to only one major villain who behaves in the manner you describe (Greivous), plus two minor villains who do it maybe once each, one of whom is just a bratty little child behaving like a bratty little child. Hardly the endemic problem in the PT you made it out to be earlier.

I don't care if he was the Pope of Dantooine, it still was there and onscreen. The fact that little shit Boba wasn't a main character doesn't make the cackling any less annoying or stand out awkwardly.

[The Romulan Republic]

Sheltray Retrac, Bail's aide and future mother of Winter Celchu, I think.

Really? That was Winter's mother?

God, all these little EU references and connections I miss.

Umm, yeah. The 'Shroud of the Dark Side' has nothing to do with the Jedi's physical abilities. It just clouds their 'vision' as far as being soothsayers. And even with that, not every Jedi has every ability.

Except that in Attack of the Clones, someone (Windu I think) suggests that the Jedi "inform the Senate our ability to use the Force is diminished" or something similar. It is not at all clear to me, based on that, that he is referring only to "vision," and in any case, doesn't a Jedi depend somewhat on their ability to see into the future in order to use a light saber to full effectiveness?

[Stark]

Well they can't just rush in and kill the fucking Chancellor of the Republic dude. They have to at least try to give him a chance to surrender.

I felt this was probably deliberate; they have found the Sith they've been looking for for years, they want to confront him, maybe they feel fucking stupid for being duped for so long... but none of them have any idea what they're doing and Mace is a grandstanding melodramatic tard. The Jedi are arrogant and stuff.

[Havok]

I think Yoda was talking about the council's ability to do just that, see into the future. It's not like their ability to jump high or block blaster bolts was ineffective, we see no evidence of this, just their status as wise advisers to the Chancellor. What we do see is how it effected their ability to take the correct courses of action, something pretty necessary for such a small group to have such a far reaching influence and effect.

[General Brock]

^

Knowing Havok, he was looking for the real life name of the actress so he can google up some nude pictures of her. In that case, Caroline de Souza Correa.

See, Thanas gets me.

Edit: Hot damn. She makes me want to write some fanfiction, if you get my meaning, and I know you do.

Err... That did not compute. Really, I'm prudishly ignorant and completely in the dark.

[Havok]

Well they can't just rush in and kill the fucking Chancellor of the Republic dude. They have to at least try to give him a chance to surrender.

I felt this was probably deliberate; they have found the Sith they've been looking for for years, they want to confront him, maybe they feel fucking stupid for being duped for so long... but none of them have any idea what they're doing and Mace is a grandstanding melodramatic tard. The Jedi are arrogant and stuff.

Oh for sure it is deliberate. But only partially for your reasons. They definitely had no idea what they were confronting, and they were still arrogant, but I don't think it was grandstanding so much as Mace trying to follow some semblance of law or procedure considering they were in effect, attempting a coup.

[Thanas]

^

Knowing Havok, he was looking for the real life name of the actress so he can google up some nude pictures of her. In that case, Caroline de Souza Correa.

See, Thanas gets me.

Edit: Hot damn. She makes me want to write some fanfiction, if you get my meaning, and I know you do.

Err... That did not compute. Really, I'm prudishly ignorant and completely in the dark.

Most fanfiction is pure fan-wanking to some characters. Hence, when Havok wants to write some fanfiction, he is most likely going to use his left hand while doing so.

[Stark]

Well I think that's the conflict for the whole Jedi order; they are balanced between being an advisory body governed by law and being genetic super wizards with unknowable powers. Mace is a cranky bastard and wants to Make Things Right yet he's still torn on this issue. If he'd just shown up and killed the guy he'd probably have been fine; but he shows up and then tries to play sherriff.

EDIT - actually, for all the EU wank about Mace being a bit darksidey with his fighting (and that making him teh ubbbers) his aggresiveness played directly into the Emperor's hands. I wonder if the timing of the whole Anakin revealation was deliberate to ensure he would meet such a hotheaded Jedi, certain to try to confront him directly.

[General Brock]

...

[Snip]

The Jedi didn't just burst in and Palpatine attacks as they try to gain advantaged positions. Mace and Palpatine even had time to have their little exchange, while they stood beside him instead of spreading out and leveling their lightsabers at Palpatine's throat.

Well they can't just rush in and kill the fucking Chancellor of the Republic dude. They have to at least try to give him a chance to surrender.

At his throat, not in his throat. But yes, I suppose they would have to be polite about it. You can't treat the Chancellor like some common crook. In that context, even drawing the lightsabers would have been a strong statement.

[Anguirus]

So I had to convince my girlfriend to see this movie. She saw the first two and thought they were wretched. This one had her sitting on the edge of her seat the whole time...she wouldn't even let me indulge in my usual snarky comments during the show.

So yeah, I consider this one at least tied with RotJ, and at any rate leaps and bounds above the ither prequels. All of the story was in this one. Really, what Lucas should have done was write this one first, then go back and write the first two so all the story elements would be properly set up.

[General Brock]

Most fanfiction is pure fan-wanking to some characters. Hence, when Havok wants to write some fanfiction, he is most likely going to use his left hand while doing so.

Oh, Havok is ambidextrous? Cool!

I never thought artistic expression would be so right-brain dependent.

[General Brock]

I recant the above post.

[Havok]

Well I think that's the conflict for the whole Jedi order; they are balanced between being an advisory body governed by law and being genetic super wizards with unknowable powers. Mace is a cranky bastard and wants to Make Things Right yet he's still torn on this issue. If he'd just shown up and killed the guy he'd probably have been fine; but he shows up and then tries to play sherriff.

EDIT - actually, for all the EU wank about Mace being a bit darksidey with his fighting (and that making him teh ubbbers) his aggresiveness played directly into the Emperor's hands. I wonder if the timing of the whole Anakin revealation was deliberate to ensure he would meet such a hotheaded Jedi, certain to try to confront him directly.

Oh I'm certain it was. He knew the council wouldn't send Anakin to confront Grievous and would send Obi-Wan. He also knew that Yoda, the only other Jedi besides Mace and Anakin that could challenge him, was off on Kasshyyak. He knew that if Anakin revealed him to Mace, that there was no way Mace would let Anakin be the one to confront him again. So that leaves Mace. Which, as I said earlier, leads to the only situation in the PT where Palpatine puts it all on the line.

Either he beats Mace and Anakin, and hopefully turns him, he beats Mace with Anakin's help, Mace beats him and Anakin saves his bacon, or Mace beats him and Anakin sides with Mace and he goes off to that big Sith temple in the sky.
I mean, he set it up brilliantly and in the given situation, a 75% of at least survival is pretty fucking good.

[Stark]

Not only that, but it means there's no chance of anyone actually doing the right thing legally; even if Mace was successful the Jedi order would be totally fucked. If he'd been able to keep his dick in his pants and go plot Palpatine woudl have had to deal with a much more comlex situation than 'sword chop guys, now everyone hates Jedi, exterminate them lol'.

[starfury]

So yeah, I consider this one at least tied with RotJ, and at any rate leaps and bounds above the ither prequels. All of the story was in this one. Really, what Lucas should have done was write this one first, then go back and write the first two so all the story elements would be properly set up.

That was I consider the fundamental problem of the Presequels, all the meat was in this Movie, which was at the very least, ROTJ quality, over 80%, the entire other two movies felt like exposition that could be easily crammed into the prologue, so yeah I definetely agree.

[Havok]

This is actually my only real gripe with the PT, outside of nitpicking. As a Star Wars fan, I love the world building aspects of TPM and AOTC, but as just a movie fan, the TPM and AOTC are weak because they weren't really needed to tell the story. Luke's story arc is what, 5 years? But we get Anakin in the PT that takes 12 or 15? It is just too much.

Break down ROTS into Ep II and Ep III and mix TPM and AOTC into Ep I, with obvious tweaks, and I think you have a much tighter and more compelling story for the PT.

[Balrog]

And what blindness?

I think he's referring to the shroud of the dark side, or the "Oh crap, if Jedi really have all the powers we've ascribed to them, they would technically be able to resolve most of the issues they face in a few seconds, we better come up with a handicap to prolong the drama stat!" rule.

Umm, yeah. The 'Shroud of the Dark Side' has nothing to do with the Jedi's physical abilities. It just clouds their 'vision' as far as being soothsayers. And even with that, not every Jedi has every ability.

However, they say it's affecting their ability to use the Force in general; not seeing the clone army's creation was a symptom of that. It's expanded upon in the RotS novelization and some other EU material.

But I will agree with the idea of writing RotS first and then crafting the previous two around the premise of leading up to it. Would've made for a better movie (well, a lot would have, but that's beside the point).

[Oskuro]

Umm, yeah. The 'Shroud of the Dark Side' has nothing to do with the Jedi's physical abilities. It just clouds their 'vision' as far as being soothsayers. And even with that, not every Jedi has every ability.

I always understood that scene as the Jedi being unable to use their short-range precognition (their Spidey sense) and not realizing it, thus they were not ready for the attack, since they expected their precog to warn them.

Reminds me of a Spider-Man comic where the Green Goblin cancels his Spidey sense without him noticing, and Peter goes about being careless because he expects his spidey-sense to warn him of any danger (That's how the Goblin finds out his secret identity).

Jedi training has always been depicted as them being taught to trust in the Force, to not trust their regular senses, to act on instinct, etc. I can totally see most of them (except the BAMF Mace Windu) being completely screwed without the Force helping them. To exemplify, Grievious had physical powers capable of overcoming many Jedi, yet Obi Wan bitchslapped him around in saber combat, probably because of that "sees things before they happen" cheat.

[Knife]

The novel explains Obi Wan's point of view as Obi becoming Grevious, becoming the droids surrounding him, becoming the ship they were in. Abandoning yourself to the Force seems to connect you with everything; so while you are connected to them, you know what they are going to do as soon as they do. So we have Qui Gon's version of 'see things before they happen' and you have RotS's novelization version of being connected and becoming everything else and knowing what they know.

[Elfdart]

No. When Anakin and Padme are both looking out of the Coruscant city scape being all thoughtful and emotional.

Oh man... Order 66...

Hmm... "Commander Cody, the time has come... Execute Order 66." Interesting choice of words. Also, none of the Clones need to be told what Order 66 is. They just start killing Jedi.

What are you going to do little British Jedi boy? Man, you really shouldn't have asked that.

I couldn't help but crack up every time he was mentioned. Here's why:



"Cody and his assistants must be destroyed!"

"OK, we'll go back to town and get 'em."

[Elfdart]

Well, neither Dooku, nor Maul, nor Jango every laughed to my best recollection. That makes two major villains who laugh (Grevious and Palpatine), vs two in the Original Trilogy (Jabba and Palpatine).

Little shit ball Boba Fett cackled, so did Gunray. Both in AOTC. Add that with Greivous and it is just fucking odd. I did forget about Jabba, but like with Palpatine, he is laughing AT someone, not manically cackling to himself. Also with Jabba, it seems to be part of his personality so it doesn't stand out so awkwardly.[/quote]

Cut them some slack -none of them has a mustache that can be twirled.

^

Knowing Havok, he was looking for the real life name of the actress so he can google up some nude pictures of her. In that case, Caroline de Souza Correa.

Tried finding some pics yourself, have you?

By the way, any results?

OR They were just in a small office entrance and didn't have much room to maneuver and didn't have a chance to get out of it before Palpatine attacked. You'll notice Mace didn't effectively fight back until he got out into some space.
And what blindness?

It helps that Sidious gets in close and starts stabbing.

Overall, I think this was the best of the entire series with the exception of A New Hope.

So I had to convince my girlfriend to see this movie. She saw the first two and thought they were wretched. This one had her sitting on the edge of her seat the whole time...she wouldn't even let me indulge in my usual snarky comments during the show.

I went through the same thing with a female friend who had never seen a Star Wars movie and snickered all the way through Attack of the Clones or the "Oh Annie" movie as she called it. She also called Anakin "Mr. Pussywhipped".

[Thanas]

^

Knowing Havok, he was looking for the real life name of the actress so he can google up some nude pictures of her. In that case, Caroline de Souza Correa.

Tried finding some pics yourself, have you?

By the way, any results?

I wouldn't know, as I did not try to find any. However, given that she apparently is a model (according to Wookiepedia), I think you should be able to find some if you spent the time. I do not have the time, so I did not.

[adam_grif]

Her IMDB page has a couple of photos. Nothing nude of course, you dirty dirty people.