Interesting Quote....

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-02-16 08:32pm

"One cannot but ponder the question: What if the Arabs had been Christian? To me it seems certain that the fatalistic teachings of Mohammad and the utter degradation of women is the outstanding cause for the arrested development of the Arab. He is exactly as he was around the year 700, while we have kept on developing. Here, I think, is a text for some eloquent sermon on the virtues of Christianity."

GEN. GEORGE S. PATTON, The War as I Knew It

StarshipTitanic · Post by **StarshipTitanic** » 2003-02-16 10:36pm

Or maybe Turkic and Mongol incursions coupled with the fact that their land is DESERT except for the Nile and Mesopotamia...

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-02-16 11:14pm

StarshipTitanic wrote:Or maybe Turkic and Mongol incursions coupled with the fact that their land is DESERT except for the Nile and Mesopotamia...

That's a handicap but it doesn't explain why they're little better off then a millenia or so ago. Face it, they're still stuck in a Dark Age religious mentality that has paralyzed their social development.

StarshipTitanic · Post by **StarshipTitanic** » 2003-02-16 11:36pm

Stormbringer wrote:
StarshipTitanic wrote:Or maybe Turkic and Mongol incursions coupled with the fact that their land is DESERT except for the Nile and Mesopotamia...
That's a handicap but it doesn't explain why they're little better off then a millenia or so ago. Face it, they're still stuck in a Dark Age religious mentality that has paralyzed their social development.

Stop mixing up Arabs and Muslims. The Arabs were robbed of everything between 1000 and the late 1600s. Their trade by Europeans, their prosperity by Mongols, and finally their freedom by Turks. The rich Arabs became poor and the camel riding Arabs you see in movies simply lived like they always had. How do you socially develop when you have no common goal or if you spend your time roaming deserts or busy being Turkish/European subjects?

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2003-02-17 01:30am

StarshipTitanic wrote:
Stormbringer wrote:
StarshipTitanic wrote:Or maybe Turkic and Mongol incursions coupled with the fact that their land is DESERT except for the Nile and Mesopotamia...
That's a handicap but it doesn't explain why they're little better off then a millenia or so ago. Face it, they're still stuck in a Dark Age religious mentality that has paralyzed their social development.
Stop mixing up Arabs and Muslims. The Arabs were robbed of everything between 1000 and the late 1600s. Their trade by Europeans, their prosperity by Mongols, and finally their freedom by Turks. The rich Arabs became poor and the camel riding Arabs you see in movies simply lived like they always had. How do you socially develop when you have no common goal or if you spend your time roaming deserts or busy being Turkish/European subjects?

Considering that Turkey was a social living fossil until the 1920s doesn't give a great deal of weight to your argument. Look what's happened to Iran, as well.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-02-17 01:38am

Islam is no more or less intolerant and misogynistic than Christianity. Read the Bible and read the Koran; there's really not that much difference.

Patton was just being an idiot; I'm sure he wasn't thinking about Exodus' instructions to execute children if they swear at their parents when he beat his chest about the superiority of Christianity over Islam.

Do you want to know why Christianity has progressed? Because it's been watered down by secularism and science. It has nothing whatsoever to do with any intrinsic superiority.

SyntaxVorlon · Post by **SyntaxVorlon** » 2003-02-17 02:36am

Read the Cartoon History of the Universe part III, it basically gives a history of the ascension to power of the caliphate, and later the sultanate and various offshoots.
And don't think that the Turks are limited to Turkey, they along with the Mongels were mostly nomadic in eastern Europe for thousands of years. They invaded china once upon a time, and they ruled an empire that was so powerful that inorder to get around it to the spices in India, Western Europe sent out ships. What the Westerners found helped fuel their rise to power over the world.

Sir Sirius · Post by **Sir Sirius** » 2003-02-17 03:24am

Patton is wrong in grediting the advances made by the "western world" to christianity. Churches fought most of the social and scientific advanced made in the last 500 years, because they somehow were an insult to god, were imoral or were not in accordance with the bible. Churches still keep on fighting new ideas for the very same reasons.
Why is it that theists label everything they do not understand as being immoral?

It is no credit to the orthodox that they do not now believe all the absurdities that were believed 150 years ago. The gradual emasculation of the Christian doctrine has been effected in spite of the most vigorous resistance, and solely as the result of the onslaughts of freethinkers.
-- Bertrand Russell, "Has Religion Made Useful Contributions to Civilization?"

UltraViolence83 · Post by **UltraViolence83** » 2003-02-17 06:28am

I've never liked the idea that we are "superior" to other societies because we have cars and the internet and the such. If they haven't changed for millenia, their society obviously must work well. If they hated it, they would have changed by now. I do like the idea that there are other cultures in the world that use different technologies than we do. Makes the world less monotonous and more interesting.

I'm not too big on the technological globalization of the world, either. Hell, I've thought about moving to Nepal some day.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2003-02-17 06:51am

IMHO, Islam is on the verge of an event that could be described as it's own version of the Spanish Inquisition. This time Christianity will be on the recieving end. Sadly, all others who do not subscibe to the beliefs of islam will be dragged into the violent dogmatic fun. yippiee!

salm · Post by **salm** » 2003-02-17 08:08am

the treatment of women is getting better. look at places like ankara and istanbul. hot chicks in bikinis with string tangas. i believe that´s illegal in florida(maybe it´s an internet myth) . look at women in iran and irak. many of them are not wearing a scarf on their heads anymore which means they´re not forced to do so.

daraus folgt: the quote is bullshit

ClaysGhost · Post by **ClaysGhost** » 2003-02-17 08:46am

Sir Sirius wrote:Patton is wrong in grediting the advances made by the "western world" to christianity.

He certainly is. 800-1000 years ago the situation was almost the reverse. Islamic countries were the leaders of scientific discovery; optics, mathematics, chemistry, medicine and dynamics.

StarshipTitanic · Post by **StarshipTitanic** » 2003-02-17 02:28pm

Frank Hipper wrote:
StarshipTitanic wrote:
Stormbringer wrote: That's a handicap but it doesn't explain why they're little better off then a millenia or so ago. Face it, they're still stuck in a Dark Age religious mentality that has paralyzed their social development.
Stop mixing up Arabs and Muslims. The Arabs were robbed of everything between 1000 and the late 1600s. Their trade by Europeans, their prosperity by Mongols, and finally their freedom by Turks. The rich Arabs became poor and the camel riding Arabs you see in movies simply lived like they always had. How do you socially develop when you have no common goal or if you spend your time roaming deserts or busy being Turkish/European subjects?
Considering that Turkey was a social living fossil until the 1920s doesn't give a great deal of weight to your argument. Look what's happened to Iran, as well.

What are you talking about? Turkey was vibrant military power until the late 1700s, when the populations they had conquered started to feel nationalistic feelings. Iran, lol! I see you subscribe to the idea that Iranians are Arabs. They're...Iranians.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-02-17 02:56pm

StarshipTitanic wrote:
What are you talking about? Turkey was vibrant military power until the late 1700s, when the populations they had conquered started to feel nationalistic feelings. Iran, lol! I see you subscribe to the idea that Iranians are Arabs. They're...Iranians.

Persians would be the historically correct term. Iran only became Iran this century IIRC.

UltraViolence83 · Post by **UltraViolence83** » 2003-02-17 11:29pm

Persia is a much better name than "Iran," too.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-02-17 11:34pm

There is a tendency to treat the words "Arab" and "Muslim" as if they are interchangeable, when they are not.