Another thing to blame on gays (sarcasm)

[mr friendly guy]

fall of Srebrenica

Retired US general links Srebrenica fall to gays in Dutch army
March 19, 2010 - 7:02AM

A retired US general on Thursday said Dutch UN troops defending Srebrenica in the Bosnian war failed to prevent the 1995 genocide partly because their ranks included openly gay soldiers.

John Sheehan, a former NATO commander and senior Marine officer, made the remarks at a senate hearing where he argued against plans by US President Barack Obama to end a ban on allowing gays to serve openly in the US military.

Sheehan said that after the end of the Cold War, European militaries changed and concluded "there was no longer a need for an active combat capability".

He said this "socialiSation" process "included open homosexuality" and led to "a focus on peacekeeping operations because they did not believe the Germans were going to attack again or the Soviets were coming back".

"The case in point that I'm referring to is when the Dutch were required to defend Srebrenica against the Serbs," he said, referring to the UN peacekeeping force deployed to protect Bosnian Muslim civilians.

"The battalion was understrength, poorly led, and the Serbs came into town, handcuffed the soldiers to the telephone poles, marched the Muslims off and executed them."

The chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, Carl Levin, pressed him to clarify his comments about Srebrenica.

"Did the Dutch leaders tell you it (the fall of Srebrenica) was because there were gay soldiers there?" asked an incredulous Levin.

"Yes," Sheehan said and added: "They included that as part of the problem."

Sheehan, who retired from the military in 1997, said he had been told that by the former chief of staff of the Dutch army.

Levin vehemently rejected Sheehan's allegation, saying that drawing a connection between the massacre at Srebrenica and gays in the Dutch military was "totally off-target".

The failure of the Dutch UN troops to fend off an attack by Bosnian Serb forces had "nothing to do with sexual orientation" but was related to "their training and the rules of engagement", Levin said.

Nearly 8,000 Bosnian Muslim men and boys were killed after Serb forces captured the eastern town on July 11, 1995, in the worst massacre in Europe since World War II.

AFP

First we have the gay weather machine causing Katrina now this.

[hongi]

That's fucking sickening. I'd say this is a new low, but these people have no limits to their depravity and I'm sure they'll try linking homosexuality to the Holocaust next.

[Simon_Jester]

It's less completely insane than blaming gays for Katrina, but that's in relative terms; it's like calling the Sahara more jungle-like than the Atacama because it gets about one more inch of rain per century or something.

Gah, this is terrible. I mean, blame the Dutch for Srebenica, fine, but it's not because some of the soldiers were gay. Greek hoplites would not have put up with that kind of shit on their watch for a minute, and they had one of the gayest armies in historical memory.

Now, granted, they'd probably have sold all the villagers into slavery themselves, but you can't have everything...

[TheKwas]

Completely off-topic, but in the article:

He said this "socialiSation" process "included open homosexuality"

Did he really capitalize the S in socialisation to emphasize the 'non-americanness' of homosexuality, or is this a bad editing job done by the Austrialian newspaper?

[The Spartan]

The General made those remarks aloud at a Senate Hearing, according to the article, so it's probably just a typo.

[Andrew_Fireborn]

Man, can the gays do anything right?

Besides seduce Republicans I mean.

[weemadando]

Damnit, I'd e-mailed this link home to myself from work to remind me to post it, only to find that I've been beaten to the punch.

Seriously, what kind of fucking idiot makes this sort of comment?

[Alyrium Denryle]

That's fucking sickening. I'd say this is a new low, but these people have no limits to their depravity and I'm sure they'll try linking homosexuality to the Holocaust next.

But we are already linked to the holocaust. Over 200 thousand people were executed in nazi death camps for being gay. Ever wonder why we use that little pink triangle as a symbol? It is the one nazis made gay people wear in the camps.

[hongi]

But we are already linked to the holocaust. Over 200 thousand people were executed in nazi death camps for being gay. Ever wonder why we use that little pink triangle as a symbol? It is the one nazis made gay people wear in the camps.

I meant that they'd try to blame gays for the Holocaust. I know about the concentration camps.

[Alyrium Denryle]

But we are already linked to the holocaust. Over 200 thousand people were executed in nazi death camps for being gay. Ever wonder why we use that little pink triangle as a symbol? It is the one nazis made gay people wear in the camps.

I meant that they'd try to blame gays for the Holocaust. I know about the concentration camps.

I know. I just like bringing it up because so few people know that gays were loaded into the ovens as well.

And if I am ever in an argument where someone DOES try to do that I want to practice the best way to throw it back in their face.

[Flagg]

But we are already linked to the holocaust. Over 200 thousand people were executed in nazi death camps for being gay. Ever wonder why we use that little pink triangle as a symbol? It is the one nazis made gay people wear in the camps.

I meant that they'd try to blame gays for the Holocaust. I know about the concentration camps.

I know. I just like bringing it up because so few people know that gays were loaded into the ovens as well.

And if I am ever in an argument where someone DOES try to do that I want to practice the best way to throw it back in their face.

Gays, Atheists, Communists, Anarchists, Gypsies, Journalists, and any other political enemy of Hitler was thrown into the camps to die. For some reason in American all people talk about anymore is the Jews that were murdered (about 6 million IIRC) while they were about half of the total number of people estimated to have been killed in the Holocaust.

[Thanas]

Source

A retired U.S. general says Dutch troops failed to defend against the 1995 genocide in the Bosnian war because the army was weakened, partly because it included openly gay soldiers.

The comment by John Sheehan, a former NATO commander who retired from the military in 1997, shocked some at a Senate Armed Services Committee, where Sheehan spoke in opposition to a proposal to allow gays to serve openly in the U.S. military. Committee Chairman Sen. Carl Levin told Sheehan he was "totally off-target."

A Dutch defense ministry spokesman dismissed Sheehan's remarks as nonsense. Britain, Canada, Australia and Israel as well as the Netherlands allow gays to serve openly.

Sheehan said European militaries deteriorated after the collapse of the Soviet Union and focused on peacekeeping because "they did not believe the Germans were going to attack again or the Soviets were coming back."

Belgium, Luxembourg, the Netherlands and other nations believed there was no longer a need for an active combat capability in the militaries, he said. "They declared a peace dividend and made a conscious effort to socialize their military - that includes the unionization of their militaries, it includes open homosexuality."

Dutch troops serving as U.N. peacekeepers and tasked with defending the town of Srebrenica in 1995 were an example of a force that became ill-equipped for war.

"The battalion was understrength, poorly led, and the Serbs came into town, handcuffed the soldiers to the telephone poles, marched the Muslims off, and executed them," Sheehan said.

"That was the largest massacre in Europe since World War II," he said of the killing of some 8,000 Bosnian Muslim boys and men after Serbian forces captured the town.

Levin, D-Mich., appeared incredulous. "Did the Dutch leaders tell you it (the fall of Srebrenica) was because there were gay soldiers there?" he asked.

"Yes," Sheehan said. "They included that as part of the problem." He said the former chief of staff of the Dutch army had told him.

Levin said it may be the case that some militaries have focused on peacekeeping to the detriment of their war-fighting skills.

"But I think that any effort to connect that failure on the part of the Dutch to the fact that they have homosexuals, or did allow homosexuals, I think is totally off-target," said Levin, a proponent of ending restrictions on gays serving in the U.S. armed forces.

"The Dutch military, as you point out, were peacekeepers and not peace-enforcers. I agree with that," said Levin. "But what the heck that has to do with the issue before us is what mystifies me."

Dutch defense ministry spokesman Roger Van de Wetering said in a telephone interview that he finds it "unbelievable that a man of this rank is stating this nonsense."

"The whole operation in Srebrenica and the drama that took place over there was thoroughly investigated by Dutch and international authorities and none of these investigations has ever concluded or suggested a link between homosexual military personnel and the things that happened over there. I do not know on what facts this is based, but for us it is total nonsense," Van de Wetering said.

On the Dutch attitude to gays in the military, he said: "For us it is very simple. Every man or woman that meets the criteria physically and mentally is welcome to serve in our armed forces regardless of (religious) belief, sexual preference or whatever."

Corresponding NavyTimes article.

What an idiot. I guess he got hit in the head once too often while storming nonexistent beaches.

[K. A. Pital]

And merged. Title might require tweaking, maybe.

[The Spartan]

*snip* Jews that were murdered (about 6 million IIRC) while they were about half of the total number of people estimated to have been killed in the Holocaust.

6 million is correct. Which also was about half the number the Nazis outright murdered (as opposed to war casualties they were responsible for which also numbered in the millions).

10 million is the number I see most often touted for the total, but that ignores, if I'm remembering right, the Soviet POWs who were murdered after capture.

[Siege]

Levin, D-Mich., appeared incredulous. "Did the Dutch leaders tell you it (the fall of Srebrenica) was because there were gay soldiers there?" he asked.

"Yes," Sheehan said. "They included that as part of the problem." He said the former chief of staff of the Dutch army had told him.

Mr. Sheehan is, frankly, an unmitigated bigot who's talking out of his arse. As Mr. Van de Wetering said, the Dutch parliament has conducted an extensive inquiry into how the fall of Srebrenica came to pass. In point of fact, in 2002 the Dutch government dissolved due to the initial findings of the NIOD institute on the matter. Subsequently parliament formed a special commission to find out what went wrong. Not surprisingly at no point were gays or unionization of the military found to be at fault -- these things were never even so much as mentioned by the commission. Who the commission did blame were Lt. Gen. Couzy, formerly the chief of staff of the Dutch armed forces, who was said to have acted "unprofessionally" and "negligently" by not properly informing the Minister for Defence of what was going on in the Srebrenica enclave, as well as former Prime Minister Ruud Lubbers who according to the commission put too much faith in UN Secretary General Boutros Ghali, who had promised aerial support of the Dutch peacekeepers (which failed to materialize). Further blame for said lack of air support was assigned to the French Unprofor-commander Janvier, and the commander of the Dutch battalion, Col. Karremans.

Since this John Sheehan character is obviously lying through his teeth and I don't believe a single word he said I really doubt he's ever talked to any former chief of staff of the Dutch army, much less that said chief of staff blamed 'gays' or 'unionization'. If he had though, he must've talked to Lt. Gen. Couzy, who himself carried at least some blame for the failed Dutchbat operation... In which case the general is just trying to shift blame away from himself. But then I don't think he's ever talked to Couzy (I never saw Couzy act as anything but a consummate military professional, although I can't speak for any comments he might've made in private), I think Sheehan is just a rotten son of a bitch who's trying to use the Srebrenica drama and the deaths of 8,000 Bosnian men to push through his bigoted anti-gay agenda. So fuck him, and fuck all other vulturing assholes who'd have the sheer gall to try and spin a genocidal massacre for their own prejudiced ends too.

Seriously, I can't quite find the words to express how utterly infuriating this is... Srebrenica is a tragedy and something of a national trauma for the Netherlands (I don't even want to contemplate what it is for Bosnians), and this fucking scumbag would use it to fuel some more homophobia? I hope a fucking tank falls on this prick.

EDIT: Furthermore, gays have served openly in the Dutch military since 1974. If the abolition of discrimination of homosexuals is such a massive issue, why didn't it cause trouble in any of the dozens of peacekeeping missions (Somalia, Sudan, Afghanistan, Iraq, Angola, Kosovo, Lebanon, etc. ) the military has performed since then?

[salm]

That's fucking sickening. I'd say this is a new low, but these people have no limits to their depravity and I'm sure they'll try linking homosexuality to the Holocaust next.

But we are already linked to the holocaust. Over 200 thousand people were executed in nazi death camps for being gay. Ever wonder why we use that little pink triangle as a symbol? It is the one nazis made gay people wear in the camps.

Where did you get the number of 200 000? I´m not saying it´s wrong just interested because Wikipedia claims that it´s probably 10000 - 15000 who were taken to concentration camps. 53% of them were executed according to Wikipedia. It also claims that there are numbers that are a lot higher but that these numbers often exist because it´s hard to find out how many people were homesexual but executed for different reasons (being Jewish or Sinti for example).

[DrMckay]

That's fucking sickening. I'd say this is a new low, but these people have no limits to their depravity and I'm sure they'll try linking homosexuality to the Holocaust next.

Well, I mean if you really, (And I mean REALLY) wanted to reach, you could mention Ernst Rhom's SA Which was all about "Male fellowship and camping and such." After the Leadership killed during night of the Long Knives, the surviving members were folded into other organizations.

Not that this was specifically because they were gay, but hey, it's close enough for conservative bastard work.

[Elfdart]

The fact that a queer-baiting imbecile like Sheehan was allowed in the armed forces at all, let alone allowed to be a general shows why America-Fuck Yeah was PWNED by Vietnam and Lebanon.

[Vastatosaurus Rex]

The fact that a queer-baiting imbecile like Sheehan was allowed in the armed forces at all, let alone allowed to be a general shows why America-Fuck Yeah was PWNED by Vietnam and Lebanon.

Just because Sheehan is a homophobe doesn't mean he can't be a decent military leader.

[bobalot]

The fact that a queer-baiting imbecile like Sheehan was allowed in the armed forces at all, let alone allowed to be a general shows why America-Fuck Yeah was PWNED by Vietnam and Lebanon.

Just because Sheehan is a homophobe doesn't mean he can't be a decent military leader.

I don't think that line of thinking holds, how does blaming a military defeat on homosexuality show any sort of military knowledge or analytic ability?

[Jim Raynor]

It's obvious that this former general is just talking shit, now that he's out of the military and has an agenda to push.

[Alyrium Denryle]

That's fucking sickening. I'd say this is a new low, but these people have no limits to their depravity and I'm sure they'll try linking homosexuality to the Holocaust next.

But we are already linked to the holocaust. Over 200 thousand people were executed in nazi death camps for being gay. Ever wonder why we use that little pink triangle as a symbol? It is the one nazis made gay people wear in the camps.

Where did you get the number of 200 000? I´m not saying it´s wrong just interested because Wikipedia claims that it´s probably 10000 - 15000 who were taken to concentration camps. 53% of them were executed according to Wikipedia. It also claims that there are numbers that are a lot higher but that these numbers often exist because it´s hard to find out how many people were homesexual but executed for different reasons (being Jewish or Sinti for example).

Pulled it from memory. That number may well be a statistical extrapolation. After looking it appears that the number explicitly killed for being gay was 10 to 15 thousand. Though an unspecified number were castrated, imprisoned etc.

[wautd]

That's fucking sickening. I'd say this is a new low, but these people have no limits to their depravity and I'm sure they'll try linking homosexuality to the Holocaust next.

But we are already linked to the holocaust. Over 200 thousand people were executed in nazi death camps for being gay. Ever wonder why we use that little pink triangle as a symbol? It is the one nazis made gay people wear in the camps.

But but... one of Hitlers best comrades was openly gay before he had him murdered