Japan plans to defy Tuna ban

[Thanas]

Cod wars.


Also, German ships exchanged shots with russian ships and Danish+Norwegians vs russians did the same in the baltic and atlantic. Last incident was 5 years ago.

Not counting the third world.

[Big Orange]

I can vaguely remember the serious incidents between Iberian and British Isle fishermen, squbbling over fish in the Bay of Biscay way back when, with fishermen packing heat.

[Winston Blake]

Yeah, but these are all conflicts over keeping fishing vessels out for economic reasons. Stopping Japan from overfishing would be more about the scientific/ecological value of preventing the extinction of species.

Still, Japan ought to realise that a very real external cost of overfishing is the possibility of future territorial conflicts. What good is it to any country to prop up their marine-produce industry if they end up having to shoulder the (human/economic/diplomatic) cost of a war? For example the Spratlys, the Liancourt Rocks, and the Falklands are all strongly disputed territories, which are really only valuable for the stuff in the sea around them - oil, gas, and fish.

[Thanas]

Yeah, but these are all conflicts over keeping fishing vessels out for economic reasons. Stopping Japan from overfishing would be more about the scientific/ecological value of preventing the extinction of species.

Given how large an industry Tuna is in the EU (which is also the reason the EU supports the ban, they do not want to destroy their fishing stocks), this is at least done for as many economic reasons than being goody-two-shoes.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

An update to the situation: Just in case anyone was feeling optimistic about the bluefin tuna . . .

U.N. panel rejects bluefin tuna export ban

A U.S.-backed proposal to ban the export of Atlantic bluefin tuna prized in sushi was rejected Thursday by a U.N. wildlife meeting, with scores of developing nations joining Japan in opposing a measure they feared would devastate fishing economies.

Monaco introduced the proposal at the 175-nation Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species, or CITES. It argued that extreme measures for the iconic, migratory fish were necessary because the stocks have fallen by 75 percent due to widespread overfishing.

But as debate opened, it became clear that the proposal had little support. Only the United States, Norway and Kenya supported the proposal outright. The European Union asked that implementation be delayed until May 2011 to give authorities time to respond to concerns about overfishing.

Japan, which imports 80 percent of Atlantic bluefin and has led the opposition to the ban, reiterated its arguments that CITES should have no role in regulating tuna and other marine species. It expressed willingness to accept lower quotas for bluefin tuna but wanted those to come from the International Commission for the Conservation of Atlantic Tunas, or ICCAT, which currently regulates the trade.

"Japan is very much concerned about the status of Atlantic bluefin tuna and Japan has been working so hard for many years to ensure recovery," Masanori Miyahara, chief counselor of the Fisheries Agency of Japan, told delegates. "But our position is very simple. Let us do this job in ICCAT, not in CITES. This position is shared by majority of Asian nations."

Monaco tried to sway the delegates by reminding them that ICCAT has for years failed to maintain sustainable quotas that were supported by its own scientists. It also unsuccessfully tried to dispel fears that a CITES listing would last forever — even including language allowing Atlantic bluefin to be delisted once the stock recovers.

"This exploitation is no longer exploitation by traditional fishing people to meet regional needs," Monaco's Patrick Van Klaveren told delegates. "Industrial fishing of species is having a severe effect on numbers of this species and its capacity to recover. We are facing a real ecosystem collapse."

The tuna defeat came hours after delegates rejected a U.S. proposal to ban the international sale of polar bear skins and parts, showing that economic interest at this meeting appeared to be trumping conservation. It also raised the prospect that a CITES meeting that was packed with several dozen promising proposals could end next week in failure for environmentalists.

The Americans argued that the sale of polar bears skins is compounding the loss of the animals' sea ice habitat due to climate change. There are projections that the bear's numbers, which are estimated at 20,000 to 25,000, could decline by two-thirds due by 2050 due to habitat loss in the Arctic.

But Canada, Greenland and several indigenous communities argued the trade had little impact on the white bears population and would adversely effect their economies.

On top of the anti-love given to the bluefin tuna, a nice big "fuck you" to the polar bear was thrown in there as well.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Fuck it. Not like nature supplies any economic value anyway. If the biosphere collapses, we've got technology.

[TimothyC]

<Delete me please>

[Vastatosaurus Rex]

It's odd that the Japanese are responsible for so much environmental devastation today, because I always thought that the Japanese traditionally had great reverence for nature because of their Shinto religion.

[Admiral Valdemar]

It's odd that the Japanese are responsible for so much environmental devastation today, because I always thought that the Japanese traditionally had great reverence for nature because of their Shinto religion.

Maybe before the "greed is good" Gordon Gekko phase. Nowadays, the cash incentive is more of a driver. Not that even native tribes are without their impact on nature. We've technically been fucking up the planet even during our hunter-gatherer days, just on a smaller scale.

[Artemas]

Yeah, and christians believe in turning the other cheek.

[Thanas]

I see the Japanese are using the old "bribe third world nations to get their vote" tactic. Same thing they tried to pull with the "allow whaling again" proposal.

They are clearly the worst among the industrialized nations when it comes to conversation efforts.

[SCRawl]

Really?

I must have blnked and missed them - also, it's not like the US valued fish much prior to the 1990's or so. Our media may have neglected mentioning such matters. Could you perhaps be so kind as to educate me? References to informational links would be appreciated. I dislike being ignorant.

There was also the Turbot War a little closer to home (for me, at least). Shots were fired, but only warning shots. I still remember the press conference held by the fisheries minister, Brian Tobin, shaming the Spanish for catching "little baby turbot" with their illegal nets.

[Alyrium Denryle]

I see the Japanese are using the old "bribe third world nations to get their vote" tactic. Same thing they tried to pull with the "allow whaling again" proposal.

They are clearly the worst among the industrialized nations when it comes to conversation efforts.

Well, depending on whether or not you consider China to be industrialized... They are basically eating all of asia out of its turtles. Come to think of it, they are eating the world out of most of its endangered species. As it turns out in asian cultures, the ability of an animal to boost the male libido is inversely proportionate to the animal's population size.

I can see it now. As bluefin tuna becomes more rare, the Chinese, Japanese etc will suddenly discover a long lost "medicinal use" for tuna.

Of course the libertarians would say that as the price of tuna goes up, consumption will decrease. This is of course not true, because the high price gives people an incentive to harvest and sell of the meat which is in high demand.

[ray245]

I see the Japanese are using the old "bribe third world nations to get their vote" tactic. Same thing they tried to pull with the "allow whaling again" proposal.

They are clearly the worst among the industrialized nations when it comes to conversation efforts.

Well, depending on whether or not you consider China to be industrialized... They are basically eating all of asia out of its turtles. Come to think of it, they are eating the world out of most of its endangered species. As it turns out in asian cultures, the ability of an animal to boost the male libido is inversely proportionate to the animal's population size.

I can see it now. As bluefin tuna becomes more rare, the Chinese, Japanese etc will suddenly discover a long lost "medicinal use" for tuna.

Of course the libertarians would say that as the price of tuna goes up, consumption will decrease. This is of course not true, because the high price gives people an incentive to harvest and sell of the meat which is in high demand.

It will be nice if the various East Asian countries starts to teach its people that there's no scientific basis that eating endangered species will boast the sexual abilities of the male.

However, I don't think that such a scenario is plausible.

[Big Orange]

The usual suspects, Japan and China, alongside Russia, are also seriously hammering the shark population literally into soup:

An effort to bolster conservation measures for plummeting shark populations was defeated yesterday at the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species (CITES), according to the AP.

The nonbinding measure would have increased transparency in the shark trade and produced research on illegal fishing for sharks.

The measure was taken down largely by China, Japan and Russia who argued that shark populations weren't in trouble, despite a decline in some shark populations of 90 percent. Currently the IUCN Red List estimates that 32 percent of open ocean sharks are threatened with extinction. As the ocean's top predators, research has shown that a decline in sharks sparks a trophic cascade whereby many other species all down the food chain are impacted.

Shark populations have suffered in part due to the shark fin trade for the growing consumption of shark fin soup, a delicacy in parts of Asia, especially China. Sharks are caught, de-finned (their fins cut off), and then thrown back into the ocean to die. It has been estimated that 26 to 73 million sharks are killed annually for their fins. Sharks are also often caught as bycatch.

China, Japan, and Russia further argued that the measure would hurt poor countries. Libya and Morocco concurred arguing that the measure would hurt poor fishermen.

The AP says that the decline of this measure—which was expected to pass easily—may be a bad sign for the meeting's other proposals to aid endangered species such as elephants and bluefin tuna.

Link

[Crossroads Inc.]

It's odd that the Japanese are responsible for so much environmental devastation today, because I always thought that the Japanese traditionally had great reverence for nature because of their Shinto religion.

That only applies to Japan itself. I have a 'penpale' I write to who lives in Shinjuku who says she knows people whos attitude is basically
"We must save the precious and delicate nature in all Japan... But we can Harvest the rest of the word into nothingness"

[Vastatosaurus Rex]

It's odd that the Japanese are responsible for so much environmental devastation today, because I always thought that the Japanese traditionally had great reverence for nature because of their Shinto religion.

That only applies to Japan itself. I have a 'penpale' I write to who lives in Shinjuku who says she knows people whos attitude is basically
"We must save the precious and delicate nature in all Japan... But we can Harvest the rest of the word into nothingness"

I knew the Japanese had an ethnocentrism problem, but that's just disgusting. They don't mind raping other people's environments?

[AniThyng]

I knew the Japanese had an ethnocentrism problem, but that's just disgusting. They don't mind raping other people's environments?

Not in my backyard on a global scale. That doesn't strike me as any different than relocating polluting industries and pretending that the resulting pollution is the host country's problem...

[Akhlut]

Of course the libertarians would say that as the price of tuna goes up, consumption will decrease. This is of course not true, because the high price gives people an incentive to harvest and sell of the meat which is in high demand.

No one seems to remember the Gerat Auk, which, when down to just 50 birds, became a very expensive bird due to museums wanting to have specimans of the bird before it went extinct. Prices rose drastically on whole eggs, skins, and skeletons, yet, somehow, the birds still went extinct in spite of what might be termed prohibitively expensive prices!

[Akhlut]

It will be nice if the various East Asian countries starts to teach its people that there's no scientific basis that eating endangered species will boast the sexual abilities of the male.

However, I don't think that such a scenario is plausible.

Maybe Pfizer should just sell Viagra in Asian countries for pennies a pill.

[hongi]

Maybe Pfizer should just sell Viagra in Asian countries for pennies a pill.

Viagra just doesn't have the same ring as 'tiger penis'.

[Akhlut]

Maybe Pfizer should just sell Viagra in Asian countries for pennies a pill.

Viagra just doesn't have the same ring as 'tiger penis'.

We'll just change the dye formulation to make it flesh-colored and call it "Cougar Cock Pills" and they'll sell like wildfire!

I mean, shit, Pfizer could write it off as a tax deduction for charitable work to preserve endangered species, couldn't it?

[Guardsman Bass]

It's odd that the Japanese are responsible for so much environmental devastation today, because I always thought that the Japanese traditionally had great reverence for nature because of their Shinto religion.

That only applies to Japan itself. I have a 'penpale' I write to who lives in Shinjuku who says she knows people whos attitude is basically
"We must save the precious and delicate nature in all Japan... But we can Harvest the rest of the word into nothingness"

That's what I've read as well. Mind you, it's not just the Japanese that do that, but the ocean is a particularly vulnerable area for it, since you generally can't just wall off part of the seas and keep the fish there like you can do with national parks on land.

It might be a good time to start collecting DNA and reproductive samples from as many members of the Polar Bear and Tuna populations as possible (if it's possible). Maybe we can then resurrect part of the species when the technology is good enough to do so -after the population gets driven into extinction by overfishing.

[General Brock]

I'm wondering what the Japanese people think of all this. Not all of them buy whale meat when its available. In any case, at least one company has started to farm bluefin:

Japanese firm breeds ‘sustainable’ bluefin tuna from eggs
March 16, 2010, 4:07pm

TOKYO, March 16 (AFP) – A Japanese company has started exporting what it calls sustainably grown bluefin tuna, which it says allows sushi lovers to keep eating the species without driving down ocean stocks.

Bluefin tuna is either caught in the open seas or farmed from the baby fish caught in the nets, but marine products company Burimy says it is the first to sell bluefin grown from artificially hatched eggs.

''Our tuna won't affect the ecological system so that we can help stop draining marine resources,'' said Takahiro Hama, a director of the company based in the southern Japanese city of Amakusa.

''We have just begun full shipments to the United States,'' he said. ''We hope to provide our sustainable tuna for Japanese sushi bars and restaurants which are concerned about protests from environmental activists.''

Atlantic bluefin tuna stocks have crashed in recent decades due to industrial-scale fishing, mostly for the Japanese market.

The Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species (CITES) is meeting until March 25 in Qatar and is set to vote on whether to declare the commercial trade in bluefin a threat to the survival of the species.

Burimy has teamed up with Japan's Kinki University, which has succeeded in hatching eggs, nurturing baby fish and breeding them into fat adults in what the company says is the world's first complete cultivation cycle.

Burimy first bought 1,500 artificially hatched baby bluefin tuna from the university's A-marine Kindai laboratory in December 2007 and over the next two years grew them into 1.2-metre (four-foot) adults.
Since January, Burimy has shipped 20 fish a week to the United States.

Small amounts of fully farmed bluefin tuna, dubbed Kindai tuna, have also been sold at Japanese department stores and shops, priced at 2,000 to 4,000 yen (22 to 44 dollars) per kilogram (10 to 20 dollars per pound).

Burimy has set up five tanks measuring 40 by 40 metres that are 20 metres deep and filled with murky water to make the fast predator fish swim more slowly and avoid crashing into each other.

The company expects to ship 7,000 to 10,000 of the fish a year by 2012, targeting annual sales of one billion yen ($11 million).

Kind of sad so see a bluefin farmed like salmon, but not as sad as extinction. Not that there wouldn't be a premium on 'wild caught' for sushi snobs.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

Turning the bluefin into a farmed species may conserve it, but only pushes the overfishing problem down the food chain. Bluefin tuna are carnivores, so it wouldn't be like farming, say, cows. You have to catch fish and squid to feed them.

Don't get me wrong, the tuna farmed from artificially hatched stock is a far better solution than present so-called tuna farms, which capture large numbers of wild-bred individuals, fatten them up, and then kill them before they can reproduce. Ultimately, the only sustainable solution to the problem is to convince certain parties that consuming massive quantities of high-level predators is a fucking stupid idea.