Libertarianism/Europe tangent

[Iosef Cross]

Americans without much money and health insurance cannot afford costly cancer treatment or heart transplants, but these types of treatment have minimal impact in life expectancy.

They cannot afford many types of treatment for cardiovascular diseases, including routine observation which is critical for preventive care.

Until I see a solid statistical demonstration that there is no correlation between heart disease death rates, accessibility of care and average life expectancy. There is solid correlation between heart disease deaths and ALE in Russia.

So one should look if accessibility of care impacts cardiovascular diseases, which are by and large a very huge factor in modern mortality.

Er, and a family with makes 30k dollars a year (I would guess to be the income of people without health insurance in the US) cannot afford basic care for cardiovascular diseases?

[Alyrium Denryle]

Americans without much money and health insurance cannot afford costly cancer treatment or heart transplants, but these types of treatment have minimal impact in life expectancy.

They cannot afford many types of treatment for cardiovascular diseases, including routine observation which is critical for preventive care.

Until I see a solid statistical demonstration that there is no correlation between heart disease death rates, accessibility of care and average life expectancy. There is solid correlation between heart disease deaths and ALE in Russia.

So one should look if accessibility of care impacts cardiovascular diseases, which are by and large a very huge factor in modern mortality.

Er, and a family with makes 30k dollars a year (I would guess to be the income of people without health insurance in the US) cannot afford basic care for cardiovascular diseases?

No. I realize you live in a developing country and thus 30K is a HUGE amount for you... but within the US 30K a year for most families (say 4-5 people) is barely enough to scrape by. As income goes up, so do costs. To say nothing of the fact that our healthcare costs per capita are up to double what a european country with comparable per capita income shells out.

[Surlethe]

No. I realize you live in a developing country and thus 30K is a HUGE amount for you... but within the US 30K a year for most families (say 4-5 people) is barely enough to scrape by. As income goes up, so do costs.

No, it depends very significantly on location. In a large midwestern town, for example, it's possible to live reasonably comfortably on 30K/year. In a city, it's impossible.

[Alyrium Denryle]

No. I realize you live in a developing country and thus 30K is a HUGE amount for you... but within the US 30K a year for most families (say 4-5 people) is barely enough to scrape by. As income goes up, so do costs.

No, it depends very significantly on location. In a large midwestern town, for example, it's possible to live reasonably comfortably on 30K/year. In a city, it's impossible.

Fair enough.

[scottlowther]

I think this douche has run away from this thread to a forum with other libertarians where he can spout off bullshit unchallenged and reassure himself. Why are we even debating this tool?

Just for the record: I left - and am leaving for good - because I've no interest in being the lone outsider in a hate-filled echo chamber like this one.

[Samuel]

I think this douche has run away from this thread to a forum with other libertarians where he can spout off bullshit unchallenged and reassure himself. Why are we even debating this tool?

Just for the record: I left - and am leaving for good - because I've no interest in being the lone outsider in a hate-filled echo chamber like this one.

How is this an echo chamber? Iosef Cross is busy arguing over economics in another thread. The reason he isn't arguing here is because your arguments are that obvious far gone. While it is possible to be "the only sane man", your two previous posts in this thread questioned the social contract and declared that all states needed to rule inside their constitution to be libertarian. Which would technically make the USSR a libertarian state. Since they heavily contradicts what we know about reality, we think your arguments are bunk.

[Alyrium Denryle]

I think this douche has run away from this thread to a forum with other libertarians where he can spout off bullshit unchallenged and reassure himself. Why are we even debating this tool?

Just for the record: I left - and am leaving for good - because I've no interest in being the lone outsider in a hate-filled echo chamber like this one.

How is this an echo chamber? Have you seen the knock down, drag out fights we get into here? The fact that we have reached a consensus that libertarianism is bunk just speaks to the results of those arguments. It is not our fault that reality has a liberal bias.

[bobalot]

I think this douche has run away from this thread to a forum with other libertarians where he can spout off bullshit unchallenged and reassure himself. Why are we even debating this tool?

Just for the record: I left - and am leaving for good - because I've no interest in being the lone outsider in a hate-filled echo chamber like this one.

It's hilarious that scottlowther cut out a bit of my response that detailed why I asked why we should even debate him.

I think this douche has run away from this thread to a forum with other libertarians where he can spout off bullshit unchallenged and reassure himself. Why are we even debating this tool? He has refused to answer arguments and thrown out red herrings left, right and centre.

scottlowther proves to this board that without a doubt, he is a big blubbering vagina.

[Samuel]

Hey, he emailed. Apparently I sound like a creationist and stardestroyer.net is a hate site.

[bobalot]

Hey, he emailed. Apparently I sound like a creationist and stardestroyer.net is a hate site.

It's funny that he doesn't specifically detail why stardestroyer.net is a hate site. Like most libertarians we have seen come in here, he declares his argument correct by fiat and refuses to even debate it.

Even when he did attempt to "debate" his other arguments, he uses gigantic strawmen, unsupported assumptions and red herrings.

[Formless]

Why is this topic still open? He's been gone for how long now? And if he thinks this site is a "hate site" he's beyond all hope.

[Surlethe]

If anyone wants to discuss Scott Lowther's emailing, start a new thread. If anyone has anything of substance to this thread, PM me and I will unlock it.