McCain: GOP will continue obstructionism

[The Kernel]

Democrats shouldn't expect much cooperation from Republicans the rest of this year, Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) warned Monday.

McCain and another Republican senator decried the effect health reform legislation has had on the Senate, a day after the House passed the upper chamber's bill.

GOP senators emerged Monday to caution that the health debate had taken a toll on the institution, warning of little work between parties the rest of this year.

"There will be no cooperation for the rest of the year," McCain said during an interview Monday on an Arizona radio affiliate. "They have poisoned the well in what they've done and how they've done it."

The Senate is set to take up a bill under budget reconciliation rules that would make a series of changes to its larger health bill, which the House passed Sunday night and President Barack Obama expects to sign into law on Tuesday.

During the months of debate, Republicans have claimed they have been shut out of the process. Democrats, for their part, had invited some GOP participation in the debate, but said that many of the Republican ideas on the bill were meant to be dilatory, if not outright "obstructionist."

Cooperation between parties usually isn't paramount in election years like 2010, with senators jockeying for campaign positioning. But some GOP members said the character of the Senate had changed by virtue of the process used on the health bill.

"In my opinion, the institution of the Congress has been fundamentally harmed," said Sen. Judd Gregg (R-N.H.), pointing to the process Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) used to craft the final health bill.

Still, Gregg acknowledged that voters' concerns about the health bill and the processes used to pass it might have abated by November.

"There will be other events in this nation which capture the attention of the American people," he said Monday during an appearance on CNBC. "So it's very possible that people will not be as focused on this by next November."

Update, 3:17 p.m.: Reid spokesman Jim Manley released the following statement:

For someone who campaigned on ‘Country First’ and claims to take great pride in bipartisanship, it’s absolutely bizarre for Senator McCain to tell the American people he is going to take his ball and go home until the next election. He must be living in some parallel universe because the fact is, with very few exceptions, we’ve gotten very little cooperation from Senate Republicans in recent years.

At a time when our economy is suffering and we’re fighting two wars, the American people need Senator McCain and his fellow Republicans to start working with us to confront the challenges facing our country—not reiterating their constant opposition to helping working families when they need it most.

We all knew this was the case, but it's still somewhat surprising for McCain to actually come out and admit that the GOP is going to act as a block to anything getting done in Washington for the rest of the year out of sheer spite.

[Highlord Laan]

Let them. All it will do is make more people hate them.

[Chris OFarrell]

If the democrats had balls -and brains- they would promptly *accelerate* their legislative agenda after those comments by a factor of 10, *dare* them to start obstructing and filibuster, while having their own spin doctors out everywhere, loudly pointing out just *how* much the democrats *tried* to work with the Republicans, how far they watered down their health care bill, and how much support (zero) they got in return.

Of course they won't do this, but thats the smart strategic move. Don't let the Republicans at ANY STAGE cry that they wanted to be bipartisan, ridicule the notion at every turn with examples of the shit the Democrats had to put up with.

And then, have Obama come out and say 'fuck it, you refuse to work with me unless I bend over and say 'more please', then its time to go to war'. And if anyone in his party starts crying, like the so-called Blue Dogs, then kick them the fuck out and run candidates against them at the next election that have the full backing of Obama and the Democrats. You might get Republicans in that way in some cases, but AT LEAST YOU KNOW WHERE YOU STAND with them damn it...

[The Defenestrator]

So, how is this any different from what they've already been doing? It sounds like McCain is just stating the Republican game plan out loud.

[Chris OFarrell]

And on a side note, it really is fucking pathetic how far McCain has fallen. He was someone I could really respect back before the 2000 election, he stood with a dignitiy and principal that shone far out and above Bush or any of the other candidates.

Its a real shame the GOP did what even the Vietnamese couldn't do, breaking him and teaching him to repeat the lines in front of the camrea 'of his own free will'...

[Ritterin Sophia]

-snip my wet dream-

I would love for that to occur, but let's be honest, the Democrats are a bunch of spineless pussies and the only good thing I can say about Obama is he finally called some Republicans out on their bullshit at the Healthcare Summit. Sadly the Democrats weren't smart enough to push their advantage.

[Lonestar]

We talked a little bit about this in the HCR vote thread, but Sen. McCain appears to have missed an important lesson that the Dems(hopefully) learned from the passage of the HCR bill. Hopefully this will create a germ of showing spine amoungst the Dems and try to push through more legislation by way of reconciliation.

[The Kernel]

-snip my wet dream-

I would love for that to occur, but let's be honest, the Democrats are a bunch of spineless pussies and the only good thing I can say about Obama is he finally called some Republicans out on their bullshit at the Healthcare Summit. Sadly the Democrats weren't smart enough to push their advantage.

I'm sorry you feel that HCR didn't go far enough, but Obama and this congress accomplished what Democrats have been trying to do since Truman--give credit where it is due.

Besides, the Democrats have a lot of wedge issues on their plate that have the potential to call the GOP out on their obstructionism. These include:

1) Immigration Reform: This is the best of the lot because it is lose-lose for the GOP. If the party breaks and supports the bill the Democrats look like bi-partisans who can get things done, if they try to stonewall this legislation they look like hypocrites (after all, it was McCain himself who co-sponsored this same legislation last time) and will also enrage the Latino electorate.

Incidentally, also has the charming side effect of ruining McCain in the Arizona primary which means a possible senate seat pickup by the Dems. Arizona is pretty liberal place and J.D. Hayworth could easily be defeated by a decent Democrat contender.

2) Financial Reform: Serious populist issue now that the banks are so hated by the American people. Yet the GOP will try their damnedest to obstruct this since they are a bunch of pro-business cocksuckers. I'd love to see them justify this to the American people in November.

3) Cap-and-Trade: Already passed the House, just waiting on the Senate to pick this up. It doesn't have a chance of getting past a filibuster, but if the GOP decides to kill this bill they are just giving the Dems more ammunition for the fall.

[Chris OFarrell]

I love watching McCain babble on, trying to pretend he is Churchill.

"We'll fight this in the courts, we'll fight this in the towns, we'll fight this in the cities..."

Just the way, the completly robotic way, he was saying this...uch. I don't know who this robot is...

[The Yosemite Bear]

so they suddenly become finaincial watch-dogs when government is cutting taxes or providing hand outs to people or groups that aren't in the top 5% of the income tiers?

They go from being hawks to doves the second a dem is in charge?

They show they have no principals just make things up, and claim that everyone else has no principals.

bitch about other sides using the same parlimentarian rules that they used, and have been in use for some time. Hell if Obama were to use a signing statement (which has been used on bills for a couple of centuries, and Bush II did more then all the other presidents combined) they would claim that this was a new socialist power grab.

[Sinewmire]

GOP are worthless toerags, promoting the agendas of the top elite and lying to the electorate to try and prevent them realising this! Film at 10!

Seriously, the American government sickens me. They're almost as bad as mine!

[CmdrWilkens]

So, how is this any different from what they've already been doing? It sounds like McCain is just stating the Republican game plan out loud.

Its pretty much the case yeah...the big problem is by admitting that its your game plan he has played right in to the hearts of Dem strategists. If this clip doesn't play every time Republicans vote no en mass color me shocked.

[ShadowDragon8685]

So, how is this any different from what they've already been doing? It sounds like McCain is just stating the Republican game plan out loud.

Its pretty much the case yeah...the big problem is by admitting that its your game plan he has played right in to the hearts of Dem strategists. If this clip doesn't play every time Republicans vote no en mass color me shocked.

*holds up shock-coloured magic marker*

Unfortunately, the democrat party is spineless and stuffed with DINOs that need to be made extinct. Can't the DNC actually hold a refferendum and evict everyone who's fucking with the party - starting with every so-called blue dog?

On some issues, if you break lock-step with the party, you deserve to be tossed. I feel quite sure that the RNC would heave someone who broke lockstep and voted to legislatively demand that those who authorized, participated in, offered advice about waterboarding be themselves arrested for war crimes. On healthcare, we should have immediately heaved everyone who started objecting.

[The Kernel]

*holds up shock-coloured magic marker*

Unfortunately, the democrat party is spineless and stuffed with DINOs that need to be made extinct. Can't the DNC actually hold a refferendum and evict everyone who's fucking with the party - starting with every so-called blue dog?

On some issues, if you break lock-step with the party, you deserve to be tossed. I feel quite sure that the RNC would heave someone who broke lockstep and voted to legislatively demand that those who authorized, participated in, offered advice about waterboarding be themselves arrested for war crimes. On healthcare, we should have immediately heaved everyone who started objecting.

Don't be ridiculous.

Besides being completely unmanageable as a policy, there is nothing wrong with having rational disagreement within your ranks. It is actually the REPUBLICAN caucus that is far scarier in that absolutely none of them crossed over to vote for health care and all of them tacitly approved of using legislative blocking maneuvers in order to kill the bill. That kind of groupthink attitude isn't healthy and shouldn't be aspired to.

[ShadowDragon8685]

*holds up shock-coloured magic marker*

Unfortunately, the democrat party is spineless and stuffed with DINOs that need to be made extinct. Can't the DNC actually hold a refferendum and evict everyone who's fucking with the party - starting with every so-called blue dog?

On some issues, if you break lock-step with the party, you deserve to be tossed. I feel quite sure that the RNC would heave someone who broke lockstep and voted to legislatively demand that those who authorized, participated in, offered advice about waterboarding be themselves arrested for war crimes. On healthcare, we should have immediately heaved everyone who started objecting.

Don't be ridiculous.

Besides being completely unmanageable as a policy, there is nothing wrong with having rational disagreement within your ranks. It is actually the REPUBLICAN caucus that is far scarier in that absolutely none of them crossed over to vote for health care and all of them tacitly approved of using legislative blocking maneuvers in order to kill the bill. That kind of groupthink attitude isn't healthy and shouldn't be aspired to.

When your opponants are using it, however, your alternatives are to be constantly ass-reamed or to resort to their own tactics.

If someone punches a pacifist who has no legal recourse, what can the pacifist do? If he decides to punch the pacifist out, once a day, every day, eventually the pacifist is either going to have to stone up and fight back, or get his face pummeled into splinters.

And that is what is happening here. Especially with the Blue Dogs - they're republicans in all but name, for crying out loud, and between them and the real Republitards being whipped into a frenzy of jackbooted legislative lockstep, nothing can be done.

Is it a problem with our system? Absolutely. But it's the game we've got, and we've got to play it.

You said it yourself; the Republican party is scary. They're scary because they actually have achieved stricty party-line lockstep voting on their side. The only way to counter this is to start whipping the DNC into a similar shape and show the obstructionist bastards what happens when they pick a fight with the will of the people.

Unfortunately, this won't happen, because the democrats are fucking spineless, and because the blue dogs are quasi-Republicans who got elected using the Democrat name without anybody bothering to check their actual credentials.

[The Kernel]

When your opponants are using it, however, your alternatives are to be constantly ass-reamed or to resort to their own tactics.

If someone punches a pacifist who has no legal recourse, what can the pacifist do? If he decides to punch the pacifist out, once a day, every day, eventually the pacifist is either going to have to stone up and fight back, or get his face pummeled into splinters.

Or rather than copy their tactics, you can instead put them on the spot as the obstructionists that they are. Turns out the American public likes it when elected officials get things done rather than just squabble and that's exactly why the GOP is going to come out of this looking like fools.

And that is what is happening here. Especially with the Blue Dogs - they're republicans in all but name, for crying out loud, and between them and the real Republitards being whipped into a frenzy of jackbooted legislative lockstep, nothing can be done.

Bullshit. The reason the Blue Dogs voted the way they did can be seen here. Pelosi clearly let many of them vote the way they did in order to win re-election more easily. These votes aren't actually as nail-bitingly close as they seem.

Besides, it was the SENATE not the House that was the real problem in the Health Care debate. And it wasn't because of wayward Democrat votes, it was because the GOP threatened to use a filibuster to prevent health care from going through at all.

Is it a problem with our system? Absolutely. But it's the game we've got, and we've got to play it.

You said it yourself; the Republican party is scary. They're scary because they actually have achieved stricty party-line lockstep voting on their side. The only way to counter this is to start whipping the DNC into a similar shape and show the obstructionist bastards what happens when they pick a fight with the will of the people.

Unfortunately, this won't happen, because the democrats are fucking spineless, and because the blue dogs are quasi-Republicans who got elected using the Democrat name without anybody bothering to check their actual credentials.

Actually the best way to solve this is exactly the way the Democrats solved the current crisis: ram the legislation through anyway and tell the GOP to go fuck themselves if they don't want to be involved.

[Liberty]

Let them. All it will do is make more people hate them.

Unfortunately this is not always the case. I hate American politics. I wish everyone could settle down and forget what letter is behind their name for a while, and honestly discuss what is best for the country. However, I don't think such discussion is possible because each side starts with such completely different premises that agreement is nigh impossible. *sigh*