Super Heated Gas inside borg cube

[Omega-13]

Hi guys, we all know that the borg, basically have 1 big section in their ship, where almost every drone can walk a few dozen steps and look into the center, if the borg were in a battle, and a TL struck the cube, and penetrated the shield and outter hull, would it not super heat the atmosphere inside the cube where it hit? Making burning or melting drones and equipment for hundreds and hundreds of meters in all directions? since its just 1 big room basically.

[Master of Ossus]

A turbolaser would more or less vaporize the ship, anyway, so it wouldn't matter very much how the Borg died.

[Darth Garden Gnome]

Perhaps a TL is a little over the top for thsi situation, mre like: how much damage could a TIE do when the shields are knocked out? Kiloton scale lasers could possibly super heat the atmosphere and melt the poor buggers. If so, TIEs could kill a monumental portion of the crew easily, assuming they could take down the shields however, but thats not in question.

LONG LIVE TIE FIGHTERS!

[Singular Quartet]

Damn, I thought from the thread title you were talking about a Culture ROU displacing Plasma into the bigass center empty space... Oh well, same thing. Firey deatht o the drones!

[Omega-13]

A large explosion anywhere inside the cube would super heat the air, and burn the crew,
a large explosion as in multi kiloton and up +

[Robert Walper]

A large explosion anywhere inside the cube would super heat the air, and burn the crew,
a large explosion as in multi kiloton and up +

The trick of course is getting by the cube's defenses and inside the the hull in the first place. By definition, any large kiloton device inside virtually any sci-fi ship is going to cause massive damage. In fact, the large volume of empty space could end up working for the cube. Explosive devices under pressure or confined areas are far more destructive to the surrounding area. That much space in the cube leaves a great deal of space for the explosion to pan out. We know energy and matter will seek the path of least resistance, and in a massive hanger, all that would be virtually hindering the exlosion is an atmosphere. It would do a great deal of damage for sure, but if the cube were more compact and dense, such explosive devices would do more damage. As I understand it anyhow.

[Darth Wong]

By definition, any large kiloton device inside virtually any sci-fi ship is going to cause massive damage.

True, and that's a valid point. If you've already blasted your way into the ship, the level of damage you can do from that point forward is almost moot.

In fact, the large volume of empty space could end up working for the cube. Explosive devices under pressure or confined areas are far more destructive to the surrounding area. That much space in the cube leaves a great deal of space for the explosion to pan out. We know energy and matter will seek the path of least resistance, and in a massive hanger, all that would be virtually hindering the exlosion is an atmosphere. It would do a great deal of damage for sure, but if the cube were more compact and dense, such explosive devices would do more damage. As I understand it anyhow.

You don't understand it. Too bad, because you started off OK ...

A kiloton-level blast in a ship with conventional construction would not have a clear line of sight to most personnel areas. There would be enormous masses of steel in the way, all of which soak up both physical pressure and heat.

But in a large open cavity, you have a fairly clear line of sight to most personnel areas from the centre. This means that the high-intensity thermal radiation produced by a nuclear-level blast will reach most of the drones unimpeded and at close range (<1.5 km for all of them), causing massive burns and killing many of them outright.

Then you would have the pressure shockwave from the atmosphere (you know, that thing you said would help), which will be similarly unimpeded. It will strike the personnel areas with full force, and at a distance of 1 to 1.5 km max, it will be powerful enough to cause severe structural damage. Given a cube's flimsy construction, I would expect such a blast to blow out the sides of the ship, where we might expect perhaps 5 psi overpressure, depending on the size of the blast.

[Isolder74]

I hope the whole they'd adapt thing doesn't popp up here cause the point would me moot since this is an envoromental thing like the "plamsa coolent"(what is the stuff anyway?) . This should cook the drones bio parts killing most of the crew. after that happens the ship would just go boom from some safety measure or something like that.

[Robert Walper]

True, and that's a valid point. If you've already blasted your way into the ship, the level of damage you can do from that point forward is almost moot.

I must be dreaming...LOL

You don't understand it. Too bad, because you started off OK ...

I believe I admitted that it would still cause massive damage.

A kiloton-level blast in a ship with conventional construction would not have a clear line of sight to most personnel areas.

But the concentrated mass of metal and such would force the blast to direct more of it's energy into destroying or blasting apart that mass, would it not? What I meant, Mr Wong, is that the hull of a Borg vessel, would in the end, absorb less energy than a more compact vessel, since the blast has alot more volume to expend significant energy, wouldn't it?

There would be enormous masses of steel in the way, all of which soak up both physical pressure and heat.

But also absorb a great deal more energy since the explosion has a great deal less distance to travel. Correct?

But in a large open cavity, you have a fairly clear line of sight to most personnel areas from the centre. This means that the high-intensity thermal radiation produced by a nuclear-level blast will reach most of the drones unimpeded and at close range (<1.5 km for all of them), causing massive burns and killing many of them outright.

I don't dispute that. I believe I was referring to damage to the vessel itself. After all, if there is a great deal of volume for the explosion to disipate somewhat, the energy the hull absorbs would be less.

Then you would have the pressure shockwave from the atmosphere (you know, that thing you said would help),

Help disipate the energy the hull absorbs. I wasn't arguing a untouched cube here.

which will be similarly unimpeded. It will strike the personnel areas with full force, and at a distance of 1 to 1.5 km max, it will be powerful enough to cause severe structural damage. Given a cube's flimsy construction, I would expect such a blast to blow out the sides of the ship, where we might expect perhaps 5 psi overpressure, depending on the size of the blast.

If I may Mr Wong, I was using knowledge I had gained through another sci-fi movie. If one where to take a lit firecracker and hold it in an open palm, the firecracker going off would burn your hand. Take the same firecracker and close your hand around it, and your hand would most likely get blown completely off. This was a point I was trying to make, simply that the sheer volume of empty space in the cube would allow the explosion to lose some of it's force before hitting the hull. I wasn't trying to argue a non damaged ship untouched crew completement.

[Sea Skimmer]

If I may Mr Wong, I was using knowledge I had gained through another sci-fi movie. If one where to take a lit firecracker and hold it in an open palm, the firecracker going off would burn your hand. Take the same firecracker and close your hand around it, and your hand would most likely get blown completely off. This was a point I was trying to make, simply that the sheer volume of empty space in the cube would allow the explosion to lose some of it's force before hitting the hull. I wasn't trying to argue a non damaged ship untouched crew completement.

Given how much Armageddon rapes physics, I wouldn't use them as a source for anything.

And the firecracker is not a very good one. Your open hand provides a huge arc for energy to be vented away without hitting anything. Already less then half the blast is going to go into your hand. But within the Borg cube, even in a large cavity all the energy has to go somewhere in some form, and that&#8217;s right into the cubes structure and crew.

Even if the blast had enough space to dissipate into heat, the cube would still take all of it, unless it has the Air conditioners from hell installed..

[Robert Walper]

Given how much Armageddon rapes physics, I wouldn't use them as a source for anything.

I used an example given in the movie, not the movie itself as an example.

And the firecracker is not a very good one. Your open hand provides a huge arc for energy to be vented away without hitting anything.

Yes, plus a virtually endless atmosphere relative to size to disipate to, but I think the basic principle is the same.

Already less then half the blast is going to go into your hand. But within the Borg cube, even in a large cavity all the energy has to go somewhere in some form, and that&#8217;s right into the cubes structure and crew.

Of course, but surely the empty volume allows the energy to disipate somewhat, that's what I'm trying to say.

Even if the blast had enough space to dissipate into heat, the cube would still take all of it, unless it has the Air conditioners from hell installed..

I'm not disputing the blast would cause the cube immense damage, merely that it's empty volume allows the blast to lose some of it's force. That was my point all along.

[Cpt_Frank]

Hmm, the blast would lose more force if it had to tear through armored bulkheads.

I guess what you Rober is trying to say is:
large empty room = moderate damage in large area
small rooms separated by bulkheads = heavy local damage

Now the question is which is better for the ship, and I have to say I'd take heavy local damage anyday, because the smaller the affected area is, the fewer systems/personel you will lose.

[Cpt_Frank]

damn I meant you, Robert. I want the edit button back.[/i]

[Darth Wong]

But the concentrated mass of metal and such would force the blast to direct more of it's energy into destroying or blasting apart that mass, would it not? What I meant, Mr Wong, is that the hull of a Borg vessel, would in the end, absorb less energy than a more compact vessel, since the blast has alot more volume to expend significant energy, wouldn't it?

Just as the concentrated mass of metal in a NATO body-armour rifle plate will force an incoming bullet to direct more of its energy into destroying or blasting apart its mass. It's a good thing, Robert. Otherwise, the energy goes directly into killing drones, hitting critical systems, and heavily breaching the hull of the ship.

But also absorb a great deal more energy since the explosion has a great deal less distance to travel. Correct?

Wrong. The amount of energy is identical, since we have total enclosure in both cases.

I don't dispute that. I believe I was referring to damage to the vessel itself. After all, if there is a great deal of volume for the explosion to disipate somewhat, the energy the hull absorbs would be less.

"Dissipate"? Where's it going to go? The explosion is completely enclosed! The Borg cube will absorb 100% of the energy in both cases; it's just a matter of how much it will absorb per kg of structure, and with a big hollow interior, that value is much, much higher.

If I may Mr Wong, I was using knowledge I had gained through another sci-fi movie. If one where to take a lit firecracker and hold it in an open palm, the firecracker going off would burn your hand. Take the same firecracker and close your hand around it, and your hand would most likely get blown completely off. This was a point I was trying to make, simply that the sheer volume of empty space in the cube would allow the explosion to lose some of it's force before hitting the hull. I wasn't trying to argue a non damaged ship untouched crew completement.

The analogy is wrong, since the explosion is completely enclosed in both cases. You are failing to think clearly. It's more like "holding a firecracker in your hand" vs "holding a firecracker in your hand while wearing an armoured glove."

[Robert Walper]

Just as the concentrated mass of metal in a NATO body-armour rifle plate will force an incoming bullet to direct more of its energy into destroying or blasting apart its mass. It's a good thing, Robert. Otherwise, the energy goes directly into killing drones, hitting critical systems, and heavily breaching the hull of the ship.

I see what you mean. Apparently my viewpoint was flawed by not taking into account that the volume of empty space is still enclosed and would work against the hull as well, hence your indication of the atmosphere psi pressure.

Wrong. The amount of energy is identical, since we have total enclosure in both cases.

Ahh...my mistake there. It's the total enclosure part I unintentionally left out and didn't consider. I was thinking more along the lines of a path of least resistance for the blast to follow, but my idea would only work in the case if the hull allowed large amounts of atmosphere to actually escape the vessel's hull.

"Dissipate"? Where's it going to go? The explosion is completely enclosed!

I admit I missed that part. But if the cube were to have open hanger doors and such, this would affect the dissipation rate though, wouldn't it?

The Borg cube will absorb 100% of the energy in both cases; it's just a matter of how much it will absorb per kg of structure, and with a big hollow interior, that value is much, much higher.

I understand.

The analogy is wrong, since the explosion is completely enclosed in both cases. You are failing to think clearly.

I think I simply overlooked the fact that the Borg vessel is totally enclosed. I thought perhaps a large volume of empty space would reduce the amount of energy the hull directly absorbs. I though wrong.

It's more like "holding a firecracker in your hand" vs "holding a firecracker in your hand while wearing an armoured glove."

Makes sense to me.

[Darth Wong]

Ah, good to see we're in agreement then. Open hangar doors might vent some of the blast, but they'd have to be huge to make a significant difference (ie- to use your analogy from "Armageddon", one whole side of the cube would have to be open).

By the way, I think it's pretty obvious why the Borg would make these huge hollow cubes: psychological warfare. The big cubes are scary-looking, even though their power generation and firepower doesn't match up to their sheer volume (add up the volumes of all the Federation ships in STFC combined, and they're still a tiny fraction of the volume of the Borg cube, yet they trashed it).

The idea is to terrify people so that they flee their cubes instead of mounting concentrated attacks and thinking clearly. Against a well-prepared foe this is useless, as we saw when Picard finally ordered the moronic Federation fleet to concentrate its firepower in STFC (I still can't believe they were just randomly shooting at it before he arrived, but that's what we saw). All it does is give the enemy gunners bigger targets.

[Cpt_Frank]

Hmm, now the Borg look even more pathetic (and I thought that'd already be impossible).

[Robert Walper]

Ah, good to see we're in agreement then. Open hangar doors might vent some of the blast, but they'd have to be huge to make a significant difference (ie- to use your analogy from "Armageddon", one whole side of the cube would have to be open).

Quite agree.

By the way, I think it's pretty obvious why the Borg would make these huge hollow cubes: psychological warfare.

If I may disagree. Isn't far more likely that the Borg cube's volume is designed for a purpose? After all, they are large hangers. Given that a Borg's primary purpose is assimilation, it makes sense that large space would be utilized for assimilating ships. In ST:VOY "Collective", we plainly see the Delta flyer taken into one of the vast hangers. Plus to boot, when Harry Kim does a big "look around", he sees the expanse of the hangers and multiple vessels inside of it. It would seem to me their volume is for practical purpose rather than physoclogical warfare. The physcological effect in my opinion in merely secondary to the purpose of the space, assimilating fleets of enemy ships inside the cube.

The big cubes are scary-looking, even though their power generation and firepower doesn't match up to their sheer volume (add up the volumes of all the Federation ships in STFC combined, and they're still a tiny fraction of the volume of the Borg cube, yet they trashed it).

Well, the Federation fleet certainly didn't trash it at Wolf 359.

The Federation fleet in First Contact was a battle hardened Federation fleet due to the Dominion war(if the timeline serves me correctly). And they still couldn't stop the cube from approaching Earth orbit, despite at least hours of fighting with an untold number of ships. What made the fleet effective is not their firepower, but their ability to "get around" the cube's shields. We know the Federation constantly changes "modulations" and/or "frequecies" to make their weapons effective. This seems a perfectly reasonable explanation since during the ship combat scenes, we plainly see an Arkira class Federation ship fire multiple phaser shots at the cube with no effect. If the cube's shields were truly overwhelmed, why would that specific vessel's multiple shots be ineffective?

After all, in the opening battle scene, the Borg cube shows little if anydamaged areas before the fleets opens up fire again. Starfleet was on it's last stand and undoubtably would have lost if Picard didn't show up.

As I understand it, Mr Wong, you claim the Federation fleet overwhelmed the cube with firepower, but it seemed to me they only were able to get around it's defences with the famous "change phaser frequencies/modulations".

The idea is to terrify people so that they flee their cubes instead of mounting concentrated attacks and thinking clearly.

I haven't seen any evidence that Borg vessels are not designed to engage multiple attackers. A single cube is able to slaughter forty Federation ships without any apparent damage to itself or effort, and during the FC incident, it could have been pitted against a great deal more Federation ships with superior weaponry and understanding of how to get by Borg shielding, yet they still couldn't stop it.

Against a well-prepared foe this is useless, as we saw when Picard finally ordered the moronic Federation fleet to concentrate its firepower in STFC (I still can't believe they were just randomly shooting at it before he arrived, but that's what we saw).

If I may point out, Picard did specify a area that even Data stated "Does not appear to be a vital area". Apparently the Federation fleet was attempting to disable the weaponry and other vital areas of the ship which are decentralized in their locations. From what I've seen and understood, concentrated firepower might not be enough to stop the cube unless you know exactly where to hit it and how to "get around" the shields.

PS. When I say concentrated firepower, I don't mean any amount, just the amount the Federation is able to bear.

[Cpt_Frank]

If I may disagree. Isn't far more likely that the Borg cube's volume is designed for a purpose? After all, they are large hangers. Given that a Borg's primary purpose is assimilation, it makes sense that large space would be utilized for assimilating ships. In ST:VOY "Collective", we plainly see the Delta flyer taken into one of the vast hangers. Plus to boot, when Harry Kim does a big "look around", he sees the expanse of the hangers and multiple vessels inside of it. It would seem to me their volume is for practical purpose rather than physoclogical warfare. The physcological effect in my opinion in merely secondary to the purpose of the space, assimilating fleets of enemy ships inside the cube.

Hmm, you have a point. Although IMHO it's just the other way round, the large space also gives the cube the capability to swallow other ships.
A special docking port on a smaller ship could essentially do the same job.

[Robert Walper]

Hmm, you have a point. Although IMHO it's just the other way round, the large space also gives the cube the capability to swallow other ships.
A special docking port on a smaller ship could essentially do the same job.

Yes, but could that smaller ship then travel at FTL speeds, or even moderate sublight speeds with another vessel attached to it's hull? Seems to me a Borg cube wouldn't have that problem with a ship inside of it.

[Patrick Degan]

By the way, I think it's pretty obvious why the Borg would make these huge hollow cubes: psychological warfare.

I have my own doubts on this idea. After all, the Borg are convinced of their superiority and essentially rely on sheer brute force in every encounter. A "culture" such as that (insofar as the Borg can be said to have any sort of culture at all) isn't likely to place a high value on intangibles such as psychological warfare. It is more likely that the large interior space is for either accomodating captured vessels, providing a large workspace for the construction of certain devices, or to provide room for expansion of the hive inhabiting that particular cube.

[quote ="Robert Walper"]After all, in the opening battle scene, the Borg cube shows little if anydamaged areas before the fleets opens up fire again. Starfleet was on it's last stand and undoubtably would have lost if Picard didn't show up.

As I understand it, Mr Wong, you claim the Federation fleet overwhelmed the cube with firepower, but it seemed to me they only were able to get around it's defences with the famous "change phaser frequencies/modulations".[/quote]

Not quite, Robert. If you recall from First Contact, when the Enterprise arrived on the scene, the Borg cubeship had taken damage which was visible on the surface. Data reported power fluctuations throughout the cubeship registering on his sensors, and Picard's "listening" into the Collective enabled him to pinpoint the most heavily damaged area for the fleet to concentrate its fire. But the cubeship was clearly in trouble when Picard arrived to assume command of the fleet after the command ship was destroyed.

A single cube is able to slaughter forty Federation ships without any apparent damage to itself or effort

At Wolf 359, Admiral Hanson stupidly sent his ships in ones and twos to make strafing runs instead of massing his available firepower. This was what made it easy for Locutus to pick off Hanson's ships like clay pigeons; instead of facing a massed formation of 39 ships, the Borg only had to contend with one or two at a time; sometimes up to four from only two different angles. But the effect was that in each attack run the odds were overwhelmingly in Locutus' favour; especially as having all of Picard's knowledge enabled the Borg to devise easy counters to the formalised sheaf of battle strategies Starfleet practises.

[Robert Walper]

I have my own doubts on this idea. After all, the Borg are convinced of their superiority and essentially rely on sheer brute force in every encounter.

Agreed.

A "culture" such as that (insofar as the Borg can be said to have any sort of culture at all) isn't likely to place a high value on intangibles such as psychological warfare. It is more likely that the large interior space is for either accomodating captured vessels, providing a large workspace for the construction of certain devices, or to provide room for expansion of the hive inhabiting that particular cube.

We've in agreement then.

Not quite, Robert. If you recall from First Contact, when the Enterprise arrived on the scene, the Borg cubeship had taken damage which was visible on the surface.

However, I was referring to the very first opening scene where the cube was approaching Earth and then two torpedoes slam into it. After all, how long was the cube being constantly battered before the Enterprise actually showed up?

Data reported power fluctuations throughout the cubeship registering on his sensors, and Picard's "listening" into the Collective enabled him to pinpoint the most heavily damaged area for the fleet to concentrate its fire.

Yes, but after the E-E showed up. I'm implying that some time could have transpired before the Enterprise even entered the fray, and the cube was virtually undamaged when it was first approching Earth before we see any battles scenes or the E-E shows up.

But the cubeship was clearly in trouble when Picard arrived to assume command of the fleet after the command ship was destroyed.

I would tend to think that the scenes seem to show the Federation fleet was in far more trouble than the cube was.

At Wolf 359, Admiral Hanson stupidly sent his ships in ones and twos to make strafing runs instead of massing his available firepower.

Where did you acquire this information? If you're referring to the first DS9 episode, it seemed more like we saw a few Federation ships arrive first before the whole fleet engaged it. After all, they would want their fleet to spread out a bit in a way to try and delay the cube just long enough for the other ships to arrive.

This was what made it easy for Locutus to pick off Hanson's ships like clay pigeons; instead of facing a massed formation of 39 ships, the Borg only had to contend with one or two at a time; sometimes up to four from only two different angles.

Speculation unless there is canon evidence I've missed. There's no evidence I'm aware of implying the Federation fleet made strafing runs in two or four ship groups. Merely a couple of vessels reached the cube first since the fleet was spread out somewhat to be able to intercept the cube from a non-specified trajectory.

But the effect was that in each attack run the odds were overwhelmingly in Locutus' favour; especially as having all of Picard's knowledge enabled the Borg to devise easy counters to the formalised sheaf of battle strategies Starfleet practises.

Federation fleet movements with their capital ships seem to follow a "moving wall" or "swarming" pattern. I believe Mike Wong argues this on his site. From the DS9 episode, it seems more likely that a few ships simply reached the cube first. Admiral Hanson did say they were going to throw everything they had at the cube, didn't sound like they were planning a attack stradegy using only two or four ships at a time. ST: First Contact fleet movement supports this idea I believe.

[Patrick Degan]

Yes, but after the E-E showed up. I'm implying that some time could have transpired before the Enterprise even entered the fray, and the cube was virtually undamaged when it was first approching Earth before we see any battles scenes or the E-E shows up.

The movie does suggest some time between the approach of the Queen's cubeship and the state it was in when the Enterprise arrived on the scene. If you recall, Picard and his crew monitored the battle over subspace communications before he decided to break orders and head back for Earth.

I would tend to think that the scenes seem to show the Federation fleet was in far more trouble than the cube was.

The fleet flagship had been destroyed. Decapitating command and control does tend to throw any fighting force into disarray, and that's when the tide of battle began to turn against Starfleet.

At Wolf 359, Admiral Hanson stupidly sent his ships in ones and twos to make strafing runs instead of massing his available firepower.


Where did you acquire this information? If you're referring to the first DS9 episode, it seemed more like we saw a few Federation ships arrive first before the whole fleet engaged it. After all, they would want their fleet to spread out a bit in a way to try and delay the cube just long enough for the other ships to arrive.

"Emissary" shows the fleet making strafing runs in ones and twos, not just advanced units. Hanson had already gathered his fleet at Wolf 359 ("Best Of Both Worlds" pt. 2), so there weren't any "advanced units" attacking prematurely. If there had been, then that increased the odds against Hanson by already cutting down his available strength. The Borg had no problem because they already knew Starfleet's strategies and because Hanson acted recklessly.

Speculation unless there is canon evidence I've missed. There's no evidence I'm aware of implying the Federation fleet made strafing runs in two or four ship groups. Merely a couple of vessels reached the cube first since the fleet was spread out somewhat to be able to intercept the cube from a non-specified trajectory.

I'm afraid the opening teaser of "Emissary" was quite clear on that point.

Federation fleet movements with their capital ships seem to follow a "moving wall" or "swarming" pattern. I believe Mike Wong argues this on his site.

Not in reference to Wolf 359. Starfleet didn't adopt the massed wall formation until after that battle.

From the DS9 episode, it seems more likely that a few ships simply reached the cube first. Admiral Hanson did say they were going to throw everything they had at the cube, didn't sound like they were planning a attack strategy using only two or four ships at a time. ST: First Contact fleet movement supports this idea I believe.

The DS9 pilot makes the opposite clear. Hanson's ships went up individually, with little to no support, and got blown away as they came into range. The damage inflicted upon the second Borg cubeship at Earth in First Contact indicated the usage of massed firepower at some point in the battle before the flagship was destroyed, killing the admiral and his staff. The loss of command in the field resulted in the disorganisation found by Picard when he reached Earth.

And it seems that any further discussion along this vein might best be transferred to the Tactical Stupidities thread, since I think we're wandering quite off-topic on the subject of this thread.

[Vympel]

Just to talk about First Contact-

the first time you actually see the cube, you see two torpedoes slam into it-this side of the cube however doesn't seem to have the heavy damage we see on the frontal face- i.e. the glowing green. The side of the cube hit by these two torpedoes looked like the ventral to me. I didn't think any time had passed in that scene- i.e. from the time you see the cube, to the Defiant making a run, to the Enterprise running in, there is no lost time.

The fleet was on its last legs by the time the E-E arrived though. Supposedly it was a running battle from the 'Typhon' sector IIRC (wherever that is)- and most of the heavy damage probably occured in the opening phase of the battle- i.e. when the frequencies were fresh. However, that still doesn't change the fact that the fleets weapons were obviously still somewhat effective in the final stages of the battle- including both phasers and photorps. Did the Defiant have quantum torpedoes in that fight? I've hardly ever watched DS9.

[Sea Skimmer]

Just to talk about First Contact-

the first time you actually see the cube, you see two torpedoes slam into it-this side of the cube however doesn't seem to have the heavy damage we see on the frontal face- i.e. the glowing green. The side of the cube hit by these two torpedoes looked like the ventral to me. I didn't think any time had passed in that scene- i.e. from the time you see the cube, to the Defiant making a run, to the Enterprise running in, there is no lost time.

The fleet was on its last legs by the time the E-E arrived though. Supposedly it was a running battle from the 'Typhon' sector IIRC (wherever that is)- and most of the heavy damage probably occured in the opening phase of the battle- i.e. when the frequencies were fresh. However, that still doesn't change the fact that the fleets weapons were obviously still somewhat effective in the final stages of the battle- including both phasers and photorps. Did the Defiant have quantum torpedoes in that fight? I've hardly ever watched DS9.

The Defiant was never shown firing Q torpedoes against the Cube, and in fact the E-E was the only ship in the whole battle that fired them. She should have had them though, the Defiant was built with the tubes from the start though I can't recall when she first used them in DS9. It possible given the ships cramped nature that all had been expended already.