SF Military Tropes

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MKSheppard
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SF Military Tropes

Post by MKSheppard »

In a large amount of published Science Fiction that deals with military conflict lately, there are a large amount of painful tropes and assumptions that are made by various authors.

Partially, this is due to the increasing detachment of the U.S. Military from the General Public since the 1970s; when large scale draft forces were retired in favor of the all-volunteer force. Since then, we have had no war or disaster large enough to require the bringing back of the draft; and thus today's science fiction writers are not as experienced as many of those in the golden age of science fiction, where many authors had World War II experiences to draw upon.

Trope 1: Super-Tough Training Makes Super-Men!

I'm sure you've read at least one story that goes into detail about how brutal and how tough the training is for such unit; and that out of 50 men who enter, 35 are killed, or washed out of the unit (or some such number).

Naturally, this training makes the survivors into nigh unkillable supermen.

In real life, it doesn't work this way. Each person that dies or is washed out of training is a person whose skills you have lost forever. This is especially important if the training relies on a lot of very realistic live fire training. Modern warfare is now essentially a game of chance; the person who scored a 98 on the rifle proficiency test can get killed just as easily by a stray bullet as the guy who barely passed the aforementioned test.

Trope 1a: But what about Special Forces Training?

The reason Special Forces units make the training so tough is for two main reasons:
  • There simply aren't enough slots in the unit for all the people who apply -- in 2001, before the huge expansion of special forces in the US Army, the Rangers numbered about 2,000, and the Green Berets about 5,000. So in order to keep the special forces units within their existing authorized strength, a lot of people must be weeded out. Making the training tough gives you a credible excuse to fail people.
  • Because Special Forces missions usually go pear shaped disturbingly often, you need people who are absolutely dedicated to the mission, who will try to finish it no matter what the cost (mentally or physically).
For those reasons, it is why initial entry training for any credible SF unit emphasizes a lot of repetitive, tiring bullshit. For the SAS, it's trooping all over the ass end of the Brecon Beacons; while for the SEALs, it's carrying heavy logs (or a Rigid inflatable boat with their instructor sitting in it) above their heads up and down a beach over and over.

This does not make them better soldiers. What it does is it makes sure that the right type of personalities get into the unit.

The chances of success in a typical SF mission are already bad enough; and in many missions, there are absolutes tacked onto the mission -- e.g. you must assault that airfield at a specific time, despite any problems you might suffer along the way, such as 25% of your team disappearing during the initial swim from a submarine to shore due to hypothermia.

When a mission becomes completely unhinged, and it turns from achieving the mission objective to simple survival, you need people who will keep going no matter what the cost.

In a normal military unit, you can detach people to carry the wounded or order the unit to slow down from double time to give people a chance to catch their breath.

This is not possible for SEAL TEAM FIFTY SEVEN who are exfiltrating after they successfully attacked an Outer Loonystani research facility and destroyed the Super Bubonic Plague that they were working on (along with the researchers); and are now being mercilessly hunted by the Outer Loonystani military, special secret police, and Young Pioneers. People who slow down in such circumstances have to be left behind, and you have to operate on little or no rest at all until you're safely across the border or something.

------------------------------------------------

That should do for a start. I will expound a bit more on Special Forces; most of the problems i've encountered seem to trend from such elite units, whether it's Michael Z Williamson, John Ringo, or even John Scalzi.
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Re: SF Military Tropes

Post by adam_grif »

Trope 1: Super-Tough Training Makes Super-Men!
Training From hell, The Spartan Way, Super Soldier, Badass Army.

There's no such thing as original content.

:)
A scientist once gave a public lecture on astronomy. He described how the Earth orbits around the sun and how the sun, in turn, orbits around the centre of a vast collection of stars called our galaxy.

At the end of the lecture, a little old lady at the back of the room got up and said: 'What you have told us is rubbish. The world is really a flat plate supported on the back of a giant tortoise.

The scientist gave a superior smile before replying, 'What is the tortoise standing on?'

'You're very clever, young man, very clever,' said the old lady. 'But it's turtles all the way down.'
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Re: SF Military Tropes

Post by Srelex »

Eh, a lot of 'unkillable' soldiers in SF for the most part literally are supermen, from the gene-engineered Republic commandos to of course the Spess Mahreens. There's also the issue of disposability, especially in settings where a side can have massive manpower to expend.
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Re: SF Military Tropes

Post by adam_grif »

Srelex wrote:Eh, a lot of 'unkillable' soldiers in SF for the most part literally are supermen, from the gene-engineered Republic commandos to of course the Spess Mahreens. There's also the issue of disposability, especially in settings where a side can have massive manpower to expend.
Mobile Infantry. Would you like to know more?
Spoiler
Oh god why does that movie exist?!

For some reason, the training from hell stuff always gets paired with stuff like powered armor, gene therapy and various performance enhancing things. As though regular volunteer armies wouldn't be worth equipping in such ways. Shit like Halo has the Spartan's costing gazillions of dollars for their suits, which is TOTALLY not worth it considering they only equal a couple of marines in a stand up fire fight, save for ludicrous acts of plot-induced superpowers (the gods of autosave shine on them frequently).
A scientist once gave a public lecture on astronomy. He described how the Earth orbits around the sun and how the sun, in turn, orbits around the centre of a vast collection of stars called our galaxy.

At the end of the lecture, a little old lady at the back of the room got up and said: 'What you have told us is rubbish. The world is really a flat plate supported on the back of a giant tortoise.

The scientist gave a superior smile before replying, 'What is the tortoise standing on?'

'You're very clever, young man, very clever,' said the old lady. 'But it's turtles all the way down.'
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Re: SF Military Tropes

Post by Stark »

What about 'the more you talk about your awesome technology the faster you run away from animals/plucky rebels/religious aliens'?
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Re: SF Military Tropes

Post by adam_grif »

Stark wrote:What about 'the more you talk about your awesome technology the faster you run away from animals/plucky rebels/religious aliens'?
Example?
A scientist once gave a public lecture on astronomy. He described how the Earth orbits around the sun and how the sun, in turn, orbits around the centre of a vast collection of stars called our galaxy.

At the end of the lecture, a little old lady at the back of the room got up and said: 'What you have told us is rubbish. The world is really a flat plate supported on the back of a giant tortoise.

The scientist gave a superior smile before replying, 'What is the tortoise standing on?'

'You're very clever, young man, very clever,' said the old lady. 'But it's turtles all the way down.'
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Re: SF Military Tropes

Post by Spoonist »

Another SF trope I cringe at is "the aliens are so weird that they are just like us". Where authors try to come up with some really weird alien culture that no human character can understand and then simply end up describing a culture from human history.

Like C J Cherryh's the foreigner series, which I enjoyed but cringed at the obviuos references to japanese culture which the main character completely misses.
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Re: SF Military Tropes

Post by MKSheppard »

adam_grif wrote:There's no such thing as original content.
Please. TV Tropes basically goes hurf hurf hurf; and doesn't try to explain the trope in a logical manner with applicability to the real world.

Like for example, we just dismissed super hard training as being mostly useless.

So why do SF forces in the real world use it?
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Re: SF Military Tropes

Post by Ford Prefect »

I think the answer to this is that real life super hard training isn't retarded. It's probably cheating to use Michael Z. Williamson's The Weapon as an example (because it's the product of clear insanity), but that novel involves ridiculous crap like forcing the trainees to fight over scraps of food, tossing people out of airlocks, probably rape, and has a system by which only the most badass of its recruits can quit. Even the most killer training regimes in the world actually have some point to them beyond outright sadism.
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Re: SF Military Tropes

Post by Lonestar »

MKSheppard wrote:
Please. TV Tropes basically goes hurf hurf hurf; and doesn't try to explain the trope in a logical manner with applicability to the real world.

Like for example, we just dismissed super hard training as being mostly useless.

So why do SF forces in the real world use it?
When I was in the Texas A&M Corps of Cadets there were these "extra curricular" groups for guys who wanted to be Rangers, Marine recon, SEALs, what have you. Or even just dudes who wanted to pretend but they didn't have a ROTC contract.

One day that December it was fickin' cold out at 0530 and down goes trotting the Marine Recon Platoon in their Recon short-shorts. The Company Cadet Sargeant major(a junior who had gone to Jump school in between sophomore and junior years) turned to me and said " always remember, there is a difference between hardass and dumbass."
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Re: SF Military Tropes

Post by Mystikal »

Actually Shep, logical outcomes aren't always 100% prevalent. Sometimes, in the real world, logic is utterly irrelevant. Emotions or completely random whims and desire outmaneuver it.

I prefer Chaos Theory. This leads to that and so on and so forth. And unlike logic, its easy to get the average guy to understand and listen to.

Hmmm, an example?


Is the stereotypical badass lonewolf doing better than eight or ten of himself a good one that gets annoying and outright ludicrous at times?
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Re: SF Military Tropes

Post by Sarevok »

What do you mean by "chaos theory" ?
I have to tell you something everything I wrote above is a lie.
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Re: SF Military Tropes

Post by adam_grif »

Sarevok wrote:What do you mean by "chaos theory" ?
He means "Chaos theory as described by the dude from Jurassic park".
A scientist once gave a public lecture on astronomy. He described how the Earth orbits around the sun and how the sun, in turn, orbits around the centre of a vast collection of stars called our galaxy.

At the end of the lecture, a little old lady at the back of the room got up and said: 'What you have told us is rubbish. The world is really a flat plate supported on the back of a giant tortoise.

The scientist gave a superior smile before replying, 'What is the tortoise standing on?'

'You're very clever, young man, very clever,' said the old lady. 'But it's turtles all the way down.'
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Re: SF Military Tropes

Post by Mystikal »

Sarevok wrote:What do you mean by "chaos theory" ?

Given a continously connected chain of events, however unlikely or crazy or logical, nearly anything can lead to nearly anything else.
Some take it as a Butterfly flutters its wings and a Hurricane happens off the East Coast. I take it as a Janitor is late for work, therefore a door doesn't get unlocked quick enough, therefore a mess remains and a meeting is adjourned and relocated somewhere else, delaying someone learning something to give to a Journalist, and therefore the Journalists learns that something later from a less credible source and thus delays reporting it by two days. This alters the course of a political campaign and while it doesn't affect the immediate election, it gets brought up in another one, preventing the elcetion of a promising revolutionary candidate and thus affecting the history of the nation for decades if not centuries to come.

All because the Janitor's daughter left a toy on the floor which caused him to stumble and break a lamp which he had to take 10 minutes cleaning up so his daughter and the baby-sitter wouldn't cut themsleves on the broken porcelain.

See, while it is outright preposterous to suggest a child's forgetfullness could have such far-reaching effects, indeed it is extremely illogical, it quite frankly could happen. In fact, it isn't that implausible once you follow the chain of events.

I might be thinking of another theory.
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Re: SF Military Tropes

Post by Mystikal »

adam_grif wrote:
Sarevok wrote:What do you mean by "chaos theory" ?
He means "Chaos theory as described by the dude from Jurassic park".

What?

I vaguely remember Jurassic Park as a Dinosaur movie. Who in it described it?
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Re: SF Military Tropes

Post by Mayabird »

Mystikal, what the fuck are you rambling about and how is this possibly applicable to what Shep is talking about?
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Re: SF Military Tropes

Post by Sarevok »

Mystikal wrote: snip
That is not what chaos means in mathematics at all. I think the term you were looking for in context of this thread was unpredictable. Unpredictable opponents can sometimes throw a superior enemy off balance.

Or so am I told.
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Re: SF Military Tropes

Post by Simon_Jester »

Sarevok wrote:That is not what chaos means in mathematics at all. I think the term you were looking for in context of this thread was unpredictable. Unpredictable opponents can sometimes throw a superior enemy off balance.

Or so am I told.
That's because you don't hear about all the times the unpredictable opponent does something retarded and gets his ass shot off by a superior enemy. Acting randomly in a situation where most of your options are fatal is not a good plan.
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Re: SF Military Tropes

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Mystikal wrote:Actually Shep, logical outcomes aren't always 100% prevalent. Sometimes, in the real world, logic is utterly irrelevant. Emotions or completely random whims and desire outmaneuver it.
Why is logic irrelevant? Seemingly random events occur because there is no way a person can keep track of all the causes of a particular event.
I prefer Chaos Theory. This leads to that and so on and so forth. And unlike logic, its easy to get the average guy to understand and listen to.
Given that most average guy on the street are idiots to begin with, I fail to see why do you think that this is enough for a reason to accept the view that things is always chaotic.


Is the stereotypical badass lonewolf doing better than eight or ten of himself a good one that gets annoying and outright ludicrous at times?
What the hell are you trying to say?
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Re: SF Military Tropes

Post by Darth Wong »

Mystikal just sucks at applying logic, so he prefers to think that logic is worthless. Never mind the fact that the existence of human emotion does not nullify logic, no matter what Star Trek teaches us.
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Re: SF Military Tropes

Post by SapphireFox »

Mystikal wrote:
adam_grif wrote:
Sarevok wrote:What do you mean by "chaos theory" ?
He means "Chaos theory as described by the dude from Jurassic park".

What?

I vaguely remember Jurassic Park as a Dinosaur movie. Who in it described it?
To answer your question it was Dr. Ian Malcom played by Jeff Goldblum. IIRC the movie did not quite describe it accurately.

Actual chaos theory goes a bit like this.
Chaos theory is a field of study in mathematics, physics, and philosophy studying the behavior of dynamical systems that are highly sensitive to initial conditions. This sensitivity is popularly referred to as the butterfly effect. Small differences in initial conditions (such as those due to rounding errors in numerical computation) yield widely diverging outcomes for chaotic systems, rendering long-term prediction impossible in general. This happens even though these systems are deterministic, meaning that their future behaviour is fully determined by their initial conditions, with no random elements involved. In other words, the deterministic nature of these systems does not make them predictable. This behavior is known as deterministic chaos, or simply chaos.

Chaotic behavior can be observed in many natural systems, such as the weather. Explanation of such behavior may be sought through analysis of a chaotic mathematical model, or through analytical techniques such as recurrence plots and Poincaré maps.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_theory
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Re: SF Military Tropes

Post by Knife »

Hard repetitive exercise does a lot of things besides acts as a physiological weeder for recruits. Besides the obvious physical fitness, it trains the people to be used to or ignore environmental factors. Lonestar's friend may say it's a difference between hardcore and dumb ass, but in reality if you train in all sorts of extremes, you learn to either operate in them, or learn that they aren't that extreme. Repetitive actions so that troops are used to doing them is also the mentality behind immediate action drills. You do stupid simple stuff over and over and over and over and over again so that when stress levels hit maximum and your brain is over whelmed, you can still do it out of habit.

It is also a massive physiological bonding experience for the troops, to accomplish absurd things together, forms unit cohesion and why you see a platoon carrying heavy logs or a boat with a screaming Sgt in it.

So hard training may not make 'super soldiers' but it sure does make good ones; not because of super uber fitness, but because of unit bonding and used to running at top speed in crappy environments.
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Re: SF Military Tropes

Post by Raxmei »

The enemy is a bunch of baby-eating aliens who will eat your babies.
The author wants to write about warfare without having to make up excuses about why they're fighting and maybe doesn't like the idea of limited warfare or negotiated peace. In the action scenes you should expect massed frontal assaults with little heed for losses. This demonstrates the enemy's inhumanity and lets the soldiers of your hero faction to rack up inflated kill ratios and triumph in the face of overwhelming odds without requiring any great tactical insight.
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Re: SF Military Tropes

Post by SAMAS »

MKSheppard wrote:
adam_grif wrote:There's no such thing as original content.
Please. TV Tropes basically goes hurf hurf hurf; and doesn't try to explain the trope in a logical manner with applicability to the real world.
That's because most of us don't always know the full applicability. We can, after all, only say what we do know.
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Re: SF Military Tropes

Post by Kingmaker »

I was under the impression that at least part of the theoretical superiority of various special operations units came not merely from some vicious selection process (besides, at a certain washout rate, you're probably either damaging your recruits or failing them arbitrarily), but because their post-selection training was better. For example, they might get more ammo per trooper to train with than a regular unit, access to better facilities, more diverse training (HALO training, diving, etc...) and so on that allows them to perform at a higher level and in more unusual conditions than regular troops.
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