Attack Of The Clones... Damnit.

[Formless]

And yet, I'm not the only one who sees that as a "what the fuck, hero?" moment.

[Batman]

And yet, I'm not the only one who sees that as a "what the fuck, hero?" moment.

Err-Anakin Skywalker? Will eventually become Darth Vader? FALLEN hero?

[Formless]

And yet, I'm not the only one who sees that as a "what the fuck, hero?" moment.

Err-Anakin Skywalker? Will eventually become Darth Vader? FALLEN hero?

So? A tragic hero doesn't work very well if you jump the gun and have him do something totally despicable BEFORE his actual fall. I dunno, I guess it felt too out of place and made the character too unlikable-- and he wasn't very likable in the first place.

Now you see why I loath this movie...

[Havok]

I haven't seen the movie in a while, but didn't Kay marry Michael well before he became the head of the crime family? You can call Kay naive for believing Michael's promise to become legitimate, but Kay's naivety is at least humanly understandable. The last scene in the movie is dramatic precisely because Kay finally realizes what Michael has become, but it is too late because they're already married. In constrast, Padme married Anakin after she knew he slaughtered women and children.

No, Micheal had been back for a year or so after Sonny's death was already assuming his responsibilities and preparing to take over for the Don, before he approached Kay. Kay already knew what Micheal was when she married him. A willing fucking crime lord. To put it another way, it would be like Kay marrying Jabba the Hutt. Micheal was also a fully mature adult that had gone to college and was a decorated war hero and IIRC an officer. He was a mature adult that was coldly calculating all his moves, including Kay. Anakin was a 19 year old with the weight of the Jedi on his shoulders, the ability to tap into more power than any other Jedi, and consequently, more power that could corrupt him if even slightly used wrong AND under the direct and purposeful influence of the most powerful Sith Lord ever with the exact intention to do just that. Oh right and his kidnapped and tortured mother just died in his arms.

You have a weird definition of 'innocent' as this is a group of people that routinely seem to kidnap, attack and kill the non Tusken population on Tattooine, with glee. (See the TPM race)

Don't be retarded. Obviously, the Tusken children are innocents.

Yes, for the time being.

You are a fucking idiot. Michael crossed the "moral event-horizon" when he began to take over the operation of of a murdering, pimping, protection racket, drug dealing crime family after his return from Sicily. Killing Fredo is his ultimate act of being so fucking far past your "moral event-horizon" and so far gone and reprehensible, that it is the catalyst for him finally realizing what he has become.

Wrong. A character only crosses the "moral event horizon" when he becomes totally irredeemable in the eyes of the audience. Obviously, this is somewhat subjective, but in my opinion Michael is still theoretically redeemable until he kills his brother-in-law. Michael acting as the head of the crime family is not enough to convince the audience that he is irredeemable, because it's always been a part of his life, even though he initially wanted nothing to do with it. The tragedy of Michael Corleone is that he wanted a normal life, but due to circumstance he became wrapped up in his family's organization until he ended up replacing his father after Sonny died. But it wasn't until Michael killed Carlo and then lied about it to Kay that he truly became a monster.

No. Micheal crossed the line of irredeemable when he began issuing orders in a criminal organization that was selling drugs, pimping, racketeering and killing because... he wanted to. Not one single person forced Micheal into that situation and he had every opportunity and even encouragement to not take up his father's mantle. Micheal wanting a normal life is complete and utter bullshit. He gave that up when he left college, against his entire family's objection, to join the Marines.

Uh, and it isn't easy for the audience to understand (without approving of Anakin's behavior) why Padme would initially believe Anakin was a good person, and continue to overlook Anakin's crimes until she couldn't take it anymore?

Are you serious? Anakin crosses the "moral event horizon" like two days after meeting Padme, by slaughtering women and children. Yet Padme still marries him later.

Are you really still clinging to this 'just met two days ago' bullshit? Fine. Be a moron.

Yes, woman and children that belonged to the group that just tortured and killed his mother. P.S. She also was already in love with him at that point. And again, he saved her whole fucking planet. He has quite a few brownie points saved up with Padme. It is absolutely understandable for her to forgive him for what he did.

You do remember the whole saved my entire planet through kindness, giving, bravery and courage thing from TPM don't you? I mean, I know it wasn't like, a big part of the movie or anything, but you might have noticed a little bit of that side plot.

And this somehow cancels out Anakin's wanton slaughter of innocent women and children?

Wanton? Not quite. It's not like he was enjoying it. And yeah, I didn't say it canceled anything out, merely that it is understandable based on what Anakin had already done and become in her eyes, that she would allow something that was obviously out of character and done under the most extreme emotional circumstances, to slide.

Oh yeah, and he is supposed to be the greatest Jedi in the history of the order, but y'know, such minuscule details. I mean aside from that backgroud fluff, why would Padme give Anakin the benefit of the doubt.

And this somehow cancels out Anakin's wanton slaughter of innocent women and children? Besides, the fact that he was supposed to be the greatest Jedi in history should have set off even more red flags here.

Again with the 'wanton'. You do know what that means right? And as I said, it gives even more credence to the fact that Padme could overlook, let slide, ignore etc, what he did because it is absolutely out of character for him.

What? Seriously, what the fuck are you talking about. Padme led the charge back to Naboo to fight the TF. She physically lead the assault team to retake her throne. How the fuck could anyone but an idiot think Padme was a 'paragon of pacifism'?

Regardless, she is clearly portrayed as a defender of democracy and diplomacy. In Episode II she arrives on Coruscant to vote against the creation of an army. The way she reacts to Anakin's confession is completely out of character.

Notice a pattern here? Extreme situations cause people to do things completely out of character. Go figure. Oh and I think you meant "Yes you are correct, and I am wrong.", not 'regardless'. I'm sure that was just a typo.

That aside, you do realize that Padme was in love with Anakin right? It sorta happened when he saved her planet from the droid armies, uh, like, 10 years before AOTC takes place. Y'know, one of those silly little side plots.
This love was there the whole time and was just realized when he came back into her life, so it is not like your claim that Padme just met Anakin holds any water. When you are in love with someone you do lots of stupid things for them, including not turn them in (to uh... no one, since the authorities on Tattooine view them as a menace and practically an enemy, oh right, if Tattooine wasn't already controlled by gangsters) for killing the people that just kidnapped and killed their mom.

Are you saying Padme was in love with an 8-year old? Meeting someone when they're 8, and then meeting the same person 10 years later is essentially like meeting two different people.

Well, first Anakin was 9, not 8. And yes. She fell in love with him. It is possible without wanting to fuck the shit out of him you know.

I mean, I know the majority of people on this board are all high and mighty, but if you could punish the people that just killed your mom/son/daughter/wife with impunity however you saw fit in a cloud of rage, in a situation where there are effectively zero repercussions, no one is going to really think you are all of a sudden a horrible person if you avenge that death with death.

Anakin didn't just avenge the death of his mother; he wiped out an entire tribe, including women and children. You're trying to minimize the atrocity here, for the sake of your ridiculous comparison with the Godfather.

I'm not minimizing anything. My point that you so wantonly ignore, is that the good that Anakin had done in Padme's eyes FAR outweighs the deaths of some people that she has never met, seen or knows anything about OTHER than they are the people that tortured and killed the mother of the man she loved and that it is completely reasonable, especially coupled with the extreme circumstances of the event for Padme to still stand by Anakin and then marry him.

[Havok]

Wait, so is anyone forgetting that the entire planet saving thing was entirely by accident on Anakin's part? Though, I suppose Padme wouldn't really care, but yeah. Then there's the whole falling in love with an 8 year old at 14 that's kind of weird. All the more evidence that Padme might be a little off in her own mentality. Which might explain her whole easy forgiveness of the Tusken slaughter.

Anakin's saving the planet while actually at Naboo may have been on accident, (he still demonstrated the courage and skill to go up in the fighter and fight and risk his life for people he just met on his own) but him winning the Boonta race without asking for anything in return so that Padme could even get back to Naboo was not. Like I said, the kid scored an ass load of brownie points.

And again, Anakin was 9 not 8. Not a huge difference but Padme was only a few months removed from being 13 IIRC so the difference isn't quite so large. Also, as we see in the Star Wars uni, kids are not treated like kids on present day Earth. Responsibility and decision making is not something that adults find completely outrageous from children.

[Havok]

I'm not remembering anything from the movies that indicates Padme was attracted in a romantic way to Anakin when he was a child (God I hope not). They were friends, sure, but I really didn't have the sense that there was anything more to it than that.

So I'm going to have to ask for a source.

Love doesn't always equal romance. Clearly Padme had affection for Anakin. That affection turned into a more romantic adult love when they met again later.

[Batman]

And yet, I'm not the only one who sees that as a "what the fuck, hero?" moment.

Err-Anakin Skywalker? Will eventually become Darth Vader? FALLEN hero?

So? A tragic hero doesn't work very well if you jump the gun and have him do something totally despicable BEFORE his actual fall. I dunno, I guess it felt too out of place and made the character too unlikable-- and he wasn't very likable in the first place.
Now you see why I loath this movie...

Jump the gun? Everybody KNEW he would become Darth Vader ANYWAY. The actual fall was already BUILT IN. And out of place compared to what? Preteen Anakin from TPM, that being the ONLY example of PT movie Anakin we have before him gradually turning to the Dark Side (and STRUGGLING with it despite Palpatine's best efforts)? To the moment where it was either save Padme or side with the Jedi Council (or so he believed at any rate) Anakin was with the Jedi Council, to the point where tried to talk Windu OUT of killing Palpatine because THAT WAS NOT THE JEDI WAY.

[Formless]

Jump the gun? Everybody KNEW he would become Darth Vader ANYWAY. The actual fall was already BUILT IN. And out of place compared to what? Preteen Anakin from TPM, that being the ONLY example of PT movie Anakin we have before him gradually turning to the Dark Side (and STRUGGLING with it despite Palpatine's best efforts)? To the moment where it was either save Padme or side with the Jedi Council (or so he believed at any rate) Anakin was with the Jedi Council, to the point where tried to talk Windu OUT of killing Palpatine because THAT WAS NOT THE JEDI WAY.

Not everyone knew he was going to turn, Bats. I know people who have either watched the prequel movies first or never watched the original trilogy at all. And it was out of place for where it was in the narrative. Sure, you could have him do something bad to foreshadow his eventual fall, something that establishes his flaws; but what they went with was simply too heinous and makes you question if he hadn't already fallen to the dark side or why he doesn't do so sooner. The Anakin we get in RoTS is far more believable, and I have no qualms with the characterization of him in that movie. But in AotC he's just a douche, and I don't get why people want to make excuses for him.

[Havok]

Jump the gun? Everybody KNEW he would become Darth Vader ANYWAY. The actual fall was already BUILT IN. And out of place compared to what? Preteen Anakin from TPM, that being the ONLY example of PT movie Anakin we have before him gradually turning to the Dark Side (and STRUGGLING with it despite Palpatine's best efforts)? To the moment where it was either save Padme or side with the Jedi Council (or so he believed at any rate) Anakin was with the Jedi Council, to the point where tried to talk Windu OUT of killing Palpatine because THAT WAS NOT THE JEDI WAY.

Not everyone knew he was going to turn, Bats. I know people who have either watched the prequel movies first or never watched the original trilogy at all. And it was out of place for where it was in the narrative. Sure, you could have him do something bad to foreshadow his eventual fall, something that establishes his flaws; but what they went with was simply too heinous and makes you question if he hadn't already fallen to the dark side or why he doesn't do so sooner. The Anakin we get in RoTS is far more believable, and I have no qualms with the characterization of him in that movie. But in AotC he's just a douche, and I don't get why people want to make excuses for him.

Dude, Anakin in AOTC is an emotional wreck. He is being tormented by nightmares/visions of his mother's torture and death, which the Jedi are not letting him act on. He is getting to interact with Padme for the first time in 10 years. Go check out ARSE to see how well sheltered teenagers interact with girls they have been pining over.
Then someone tries to KILL Padme. He returns to his home planet, where he was a slave, for the first time in 10 years. Then someone DOES kill his mom and she dies in his fucking arms. Then he wipes out an entire village which devastates him even further. Then he gets thrust into combat and has to not only deal with the deaths of his fellow Jedi, but he finally has to confront the Sith and SAVE THE JEDI AND THE GALAXY FROM THEM. Oh and then he gets his arm chopped off and gets married in secret adding even more emotional stress to an already back breaking load.

Come the fuck on. You really can't see why people make excuses for him? It is a testament to the Anakin we know from TPM that he didn't turn into Darth Fucking Vader in the last scene and start wiping everyone out.

[Formless]

Come the fuck on. You really can't see why people make excuses for him?

Because "maybe the kids were charging him with sticks" is really the best people can come up with. Come on, that was supposed to be a bad deed. Even those few stories where a tragic figure does something fucked up but I still find them sympathetic, I don't come up with lame half assed excuses like that for their crimes in the story. No, my rationalizations are much more thought out.

[Havok]

Hey, I didn't spout that ridiculousness. I'm all for Anakin wrecking shop on that village in an emotional anger driven dark side rage. My contention is the reason why he did it and the reasons why Padme would be able to live with what he did.

[Batman]

While I freely admit to not being able to see Anakin from a 'NOT having seen the OT before' perspective and thus obviously am heavily biased
I'm reasonably certain I never tried to portray him slaughtering the entire Tusken village as NOT an evil deed. (And why the hell does that word look better with an a instead of the e given that either way it's not actually a real english word?) What I was going for was that it was an UNDERSTANDABLE evil deed (NOT RAR I'M EVIL AND KILLING ALL YOUR CHILDREN BECAUSE OF IT evil, but YOU MURDERIZED MY MOTHER FEEL MY WRATH evil) which even WITHOUT the context of the OT while not making those acts any less horrible DOES make them understandable, as it does making somebody already predisposed to liking him forgive him for it.

[Formless]

Well, I never said anything about Padme. For all she knows about Tatooine the Tuskins are barely sentient. I just don't sympathize with the guy or understand what would motivate people to make apologetic arguments in his defense like that.

[Formless]

While I freely admit to not being able to see Anakin from a 'NOT having seen the OT before' perspective and thus obviously am heavily biased
I'm reasonably certain I never tried to portray him slaughtering the entire Tusken village as NOT an evil deed. (And why the hell does that word look better with an a instead of the e given that either way it's not actually a real english word?) What I was going for was that it was an UNDERSTANDABLE evil deed (NOT RAR I'M EVIL AND KILLING ALL YOUR CHILDREN BECAUSE OF IT evil, but YOU MURDERIZED MY MOTHER FEEL MY WRATH evil) which even WITHOUT the context of the OT while not making those acts any less horrible DOES make them understandable, as it does making somebody already predisposed to liking him forgive him for it.

There is a difference between understanding and sympathizing, Batty. I'm not predisposed to liking the little dick, so don't expect me to go all the way to sympathy for him after that scene.

(at least, not until the following movie)

[Batman]

I never asked YOU to sympathize with Anakin. I was trying to show why PADME would.
Also, kindly don't call me Batty.

[Formless]

Like I told Hav, I never was talking about whether or not Padme would sympathize. I was addressing the stupid apologetics that people were engaging in. And NOT from Padme's POV either.

[Batman]

My bad then.

[Havok]

Well, I never said anything about Padme. For all she knows about Tatooine the Tuskins are barely sentient. I just don't sympathize with the guy or understand what would motivate people to make apologetic arguments in his defense like that.

Read what I wrote again about what Anakin was experiencing and going through in AOTC. Seriously, how can you read that and not understand why people are apologetic for him?

[stormthebeaches]

The justifications for the sand people massacre still aren't any better than the justifications European colonials used in the New World. "That culture does barbaric things, therefore it is acceptable to wipe them all out".

[stormthebeaches]

No, Micheal had been back for a year or so after Sonny's death was already assuming his responsibilities and preparing to take over for the Don, before he approached Kay. Kay already knew what Micheal was when she married him. A willing fucking crime lord. To put it another way, it would be like Kay marrying Jabba the Hutt. Micheal was also a fully mature adult that had gone to college and was a decorated war hero and IIRC an officer. He was a mature adult that was coldly calculating all his moves, including Kay. Anakin was a 19 year old with the weight of the Jedi on his shoulders, the ability to tap into more power than any other Jedi, and consequently, more power that could corrupt him if even slightly used wrong AND under the direct and purposeful influence of the most powerful Sith Lord ever with the exact intention to do just that. Oh right and his kidnapped and tortured mother just died in his arms.

This ignores the fact that Micheal and Kay were together for years before the events in the movie, unlike Anakin and Padme who only knew each other for a few days before his mass murdering spree.

Yes, for the time being.

So what? Are you implying that it would be okay to kill Tusken children as part of some kind of pre-emptive strike? Why spare a vermin just because is is young?

No. Micheal crossed the line of irredeemable when he began issuing orders in a criminal organization that was selling drugs, pimping, racketeering and killing because... he wanted to. Not one single person forced Micheal into that situation and he had every opportunity and even encouragement to not take up his father's mantle. Micheal wanting a normal life is complete and utter bullshit. He gave that up when he left college, against his entire family's objection, to join the Marines.

Micheal got involved in the Mafia business because a rival mafia was attempting to assassinate his family members. And I really don't see why joining the Marines to fight in World War 2 is a negative point for his character.

Yes, woman and children that belonged to the group that just tortured and killed his mother. P.S. She also was already in love with him at that point. And again, he saved her whole fucking planet. He has quite a few brownie points saved up with Padme. It is absolutely understandable for her to forgive him for what he did.

So its okay to murder women and children because they belonged to a group that tortured and killed his mother? This kind of argument has been used to commit genocide all over the planet. "That group has done horrible things, therefore we must kill them all down to the last child". And even if Anakin saved her planet when he was eight, that was ten years ago. Surely Padme understands that people change and an innocent kid could turn into a psychopath over a ten year period.

Wanton? Not quite. It's not like he was enjoying it. And yeah, I didn't say it canceled anything out, merely that it is understandable based on what Anakin had already done and become in her eyes, that she would allow something that was obviously out of character and done under the most extreme emotional circumstances, to slide.

If he snapped and massacred people once, how do we know he won't snap and massacre people again? Sure he saved her planet (by accident) when he was eight but surely Padme must know that people can change over a ten year period.

Well, first Anakin was 9, not 8. And yes. She fell in love with him. It is possible without wanting to fuck the shit out of him you know.

Meeting someone when they are eight and meeting them again ten years later is like essentially meeting two different people.

I'm not minimizing anything. My point that you so wantonly ignore, is that the good that Anakin had done in Padme's eyes FAR outweighs the deaths of some people that she has never met, seen or knows anything about OTHER than they are the people that tortured and killed the mother of the man she loved and that it is completely reasonable, especially coupled with the extreme circumstances of the event for Padme to still stand by Anakin and then marry him.

Anakin accidently saved her planet when he was a child. Over ten years people can change. If Anakin snapped and massacred a whole tribe including women and children once, who is to say that he won't do it again? And I find it very unlikely that the whole tribe (including the children) was taking part in the torturing of Anakin's mom. I imagine that Padme would be horrified to discover that Anakin had murdered children and realize what the eight year old had become.

[Molyneux]

Anakin accidently saved her planet when he was a child. Over ten years people can change. If Anakin snapped and massacred a whole tribe including women and children once, who is to say that he won't do it again? And I find it very unlikely that the whole tribe (including the children) was taking part in the torturing of Anakin's mom. I imagine that Padme would be horrified to discover that Anakin had murdered children and realize what the eight year old had become.

The implication from the EU is that they were extracting moisture from her - so most likely, a good chunk of the tribe were taking part.
Tusken Raiders: Not Very Nice People At All.
The kids are still a very nasty foreshadowing of the Younglings, though.

[Oni Koneko Damien]

The implication from the EU is that they were extracting moisture from her - so most likely, a good chunk of the tribe were taking part.
Tusken Raiders: Not Very Nice People At All.
The kids are still a very nasty foreshadowing of the Younglings, though.

Who gives a shit about the EU? It shouldn't be a requirement to read through extra shit to understand what's happening in the movie. The movie gave the impression that the women and children were not directly responsible for his mom's death, if some extra source material contradicts this, too fucking bad, the movie should have included that material if it wanted me to sympathize.

My impression of the entire scene is this: The fact that Anakin feels bad for killing the women and children actually makes it worse in my eyes. When he's confessing the whole thing to Padme, he states that he killed everyone, not just the men, but the women and children too. The way he states it implies that *he* felt they were innocent, but still killed them in a fit of rage over his mother's death. In my opinion, while killing them all is reprehensible, it would have been less reprehensible from an intentions standpoint if he truly thought they were all a danger and was killing them in self-defense/defense of another, rather than thinking they're innocent/not a threat but killing them anyways.

And what gets me about it is that throughout the entire series, Padme was always portrayed as a defender of life, no matter whose. All other problems of the movies aside, she is consistently shown as always acting to preserve as much life as possible, whether on her home planet, or the galaxy at large. In RotS, it's shown to be one of the main reasons, if not the main reason she finally takes a stand against Anakin, because she doesn't want people to die. I can dig that the entire PT kept that consistent... except for this one scene. It's just so fucking out of character for her it simply jars me out of SoD. The only way to justify it is either she's psychotic, she's an idiot, or she's not so much 'in love' as she is 'dangerously obsessed' with Anakin to the point that she whitewashes such blatant red flags. Either way, it really fails to express the whole 'love story' aspect of the PT.

[Havok]

The justifications for the sand people massacre still aren't any better than the justifications European colonials used in the New World. "That culture does barbaric things, therefore it is acceptable to wipe them all out".

You are an idiot. It is not a group of people coming to the conclusion that it is best to wipe them out. (Something which clearly never happens) It is one distraught teenager who just had his mom die in his arms because the people in question tortured her to death.

[Havok]

No, Micheal had been back for a year or so after Sonny's death was already assuming his responsibilities and preparing to take over for the Don, before he approached Kay. Kay already knew what Micheal was when she married him. A willing fucking crime lord. To put it another way, it would be like Kay marrying Jabba the Hutt. Micheal was also a fully mature adult that had gone to college and was a decorated war hero and IIRC an officer. He was a mature adult that was coldly calculating all his moves, including Kay. Anakin was a 19 year old with the weight of the Jedi on his shoulders, the ability to tap into more power than any other Jedi, and consequently, more power that could corrupt him if even slightly used wrong AND under the direct and purposeful influence of the most powerful Sith Lord ever with the exact intention to do just that. Oh right and his kidnapped and tortured mother just died in his arms.

This ignores the fact that Micheal and Kay were together for years before the events in the movie, unlike Anakin and Padme who only knew each other for a few days before his mass murdering spree.

Oh good point. So Kay had even more exposure and time to understand Micheal and his family before still deciding to marry him. After he became Hutt Don.

Yes, for the time being.

So what? Are you implying that it would be okay to kill Tusken children as part of some kind of pre-emptive strike? Why spare a vermin just because is is young?

No, what I'm saying, I already said. The Tusken kids that Anakin killed are going to grow up to kidnap and torture someone elses mom. Anakin realizes this and easily could have been used to further fuel Anakin's rage.

No. Micheal crossed the line of irredeemable when he began issuing orders in a criminal organization that was selling drugs, pimping, racketeering and killing because... he wanted to. Not one single person forced Micheal into that situation and he had every opportunity and even encouragement to not take up his father's mantle. Micheal wanting a normal life is complete and utter bullshit. He gave that up when he left college, against his entire family's objection, to join the Marines.

Micheal got involved in the Mafia business because a rival mafia was attempting to assassinate his family members. And I really don't see why joining the Marines to fight in World War 2 is a negative point for his character.

A choice that he didn't have to make. Even Sonny and Tom at that point were still trying to dissuade him from doing so. They were going to handle things, but Mike made the VERY rational decision "It's business, not personal" to take an active roll and become a killer and drug pusher and pimp etc. Keep in mind that Mike killing the police officer and Solotzo (?) took place days, maybe even a few weeks after his father was shot. Mike also had a very large family base to use as support. It doesn't even come close to Shmi dying in Anakin's arms, her being the only family he ever knew, and going on his killing spree literally SECONDS after Shmi actually died.

And learn to read. My point about Mike joining the Marines was not a jab at his character dumbass, but showing that it was not a normal life (the life Tom, Sonny, Vito, Fredo, his mother and the rest of the family wanted for him) Mike wanted for himself.

Yes, woman and children that belonged to the group that just tortured and killed his mother. P.S. She also was already in love with him at that point. And again, he saved her whole fucking planet. He has quite a few brownie points saved up with Padme. It is absolutely understandable for her to forgive him for what he did.

So its okay to murder women and children because they belonged to a group that tortured and killed his mother? This kind of argument has been used to commit genocide all over the planet. "That group has done horrible things, therefore we must kill them all down to the last child". And even if Anakin saved her planet when he was eight, that was ten years ago. Surely Padme understands that people change and an innocent kid could turn into a psychopath over a ten year period.

Oh you are a fucking idiot. NO ONE IS SAYING IT IS OK DIPSHIT. Are you purposely ignoring the circumstances Anakin was in? The emotional stress of the moment he faced just seconds before? The overall circumstances of his life at the moment?

Wanton? Not quite. It's not like he was enjoying it. And yeah, I didn't say it canceled anything out, merely that it is understandable based on what Anakin had already done and become in her eyes, that she would allow something that was obviously out of character and done under the most extreme emotional circumstances, to slide.

If he snapped and massacred people once, how do we know he won't snap and massacre people again? Sure he saved her planet (by accident) when he was eight but surely Padme must know that people can change over a ten year period.

CIRCUMSTANCES. Fuck you are a thick brick. What caused Anakin to snap, is something that can literally NEVER happen again, because his mother is now dead. The only way that anything remotely the same could happen again, is if someone pretty fucking evil spent like, over a decade manipulating his mind and actions and influencing him with some sort of external... force and make him think the same thing might happen to Padme... Oh wait.

Well, first Anakin was 9, not 8. And yes. She fell in love with him. It is possible without wanting to fuck the shit out of him you know.

Meeting someone when they are eight and meeting them again ten years later is like essentially meeting two different people.

That reply has absolutely nothing to do with what I said. Are you just plagiarizing what Channel has already said and then doing a piss poor job of figuring out where to copy/paste it?

I'm not minimizing anything. My point that you so wantonly ignore, is that the good that Anakin had done in Padme's eyes FAR outweighs the deaths of some people that she has never met, seen or knows anything about OTHER than they are the people that tortured and killed the mother of the man she loved and that it is completely reasonable, especially coupled with the extreme circumstances of the event for Padme to still stand by Anakin and then marry him.

Anakin accidently saved her planet when he was a child. Over ten years people can change. If Anakin snapped and massacred a whole tribe including women and children once, who is to say that he won't do it again? And I find it very unlikely that the whole tribe (including the children) was taking part in the torturing of Anakin's mom. I imagine that Padme would be horrified to discover that Anakin had murdered children and realize what the eight year old had become.

Wow it is great that you would imagine that, BUT THAT ISN'T WHAT HAPPENED FUCK HEAD. Padme wasn't horrified, we saw that. Or maybe she was and figured that moment might not be the best time to chastise Anakin and a shoulder to cry on was what he needed at the moment since his mom just died in his arms and he committed a heinous act as retribution that he can't seem to come to grips with.

And Anakin didn't just accidentally save her planet... he was THE KEY component in allowing Padme to even get to Coruscant, let alone get back to Naboo. Then he did, what no other pilot was even capable of doing unless you are going to say that Ben Burtt was going to fly through the TF droid control ship?
Without Anakin's courage and bravery and complete lack of worrying about his own well being, he wouldn't have been in a position to 'accidentally' destroy the droid control ship.

As for the whole tribe taking part in the actual torture, I never said they were. If the EU crap is to be believed, then in fact the whole tribe was reaping the benefits of her torture, and certainly, EU or no, no one was opposed to it.

I really can't understand how you fucking idiots can ignore the circumstances that led to Anakin killing the Tuskens. The only conclusion I can come to, is that you all have shitball mothers that you don't give two fucks about.

[Havok]

The implication from the EU is that they were extracting moisture from her - so most likely, a good chunk of the tribe were taking part.
Tusken Raiders: Not Very Nice People At All.
The kids are still a very nasty foreshadowing of the Younglings, though.

Who gives a shit about the EU?

Oh Oni, man, if only it were that easy.

It shouldn't be a requirement to read through extra shit to understand what's happening in the movie. The movie gave the impression that the women and children were not directly responsible for his mom's death, if some extra source material contradicts this, too fucking bad, the movie should have included that material if it wanted me to sympathize.

I agree and then double agree. But then I waiver, because I do sympathize, which I have pointed out as well as why.

My impression of the entire scene is this: The fact that Anakin feels bad for killing the women and children actually makes it worse in my eyes. When he's confessing the whole thing to Padme, he states that he killed everyone, not just the men, but the women and children too. The way he states it implies that *he* felt they were innocent, but still killed them in a fit of rage over his mother's death. In my opinion, while killing them all is reprehensible, it would have been less reprehensible from an intentions standpoint if he truly thought they were all a danger and was killing them in self-defense/defense of another, rather than thinking they're innocent/not a threat but killing them anyways.

I have a different view. Yes it was reprehensible, but his rage, obviously fueled by the Dark Side of the Force, blinded him to any rational or reasonable thought. It was only on the long ride back to the Lars homestead, that he truly realized the magnitude of what he did. Part of his grief it seems to me, was at the loss of control he felt and that in those moments, he may have even taken satisfaction in the slaughter due to his anger. That is why I can sympathize with Anakin. It is like Obi-Wan and Yoda both said, "He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader." Anakin got his first real glimpse at the horror of what his life was to become, and he was powerless to stop it.

Keep in mind, while Anakin has the potential to become the greatest Jedi due to his strength in the Force, that same strength also gives him the potential to become the greatest Sith.

And what gets me about it is that throughout the entire series, Padme was always portrayed as a defender of life, no matter whose. All other problems of the movies aside, she is consistently shown as always acting to preserve as much life as possible, whether on her home planet, or the galaxy at large. In RotS, it's shown to be one of the main reasons, if not the main reason she finally takes a stand against Anakin, because she doesn't want people to die. I can dig that the entire PT kept that consistent... except for this one scene. It's just so fucking out of character for her it simply jars me out of SoD. The only way to justify it is either she's psychotic, she's an idiot, or she's not so much 'in love' as she is 'dangerously obsessed' with Anakin to the point that she whitewashes such blatant red flags. Either way, it really fails to express the whole 'love story' aspect of the PT.

Actually, in ROTS Padme is again, OK with Anakin slaughtering kids. Even then she is all 'lets just run away and leave it all behind', which is fairly baffling.
However, after watching all the movies, just a few times , I have come to the conclusion that Padme isn't quite the defender of life that you and others think she is, but more just a defender of liberty. She doesn't really seem to have any qualms about life being taken, aside from the people of Naboo when she was Queen, and doesn't seem to really oppose the Army because she is worried about who they will kill, but more that it will give power to the wrong people. People who will subvert liberty with the Army. She seems to be much more of a big picture person and can let the 'little things' slide, which is all I can really come up with to as why she doesn't balk at Anakin's atrocities until he is all 'I will be Emperor! And you will be Queen!' (Obviously not an elected Queen. ), because it is only then, when she finally is all... 'What the F dude?! I don't even know you anymor-CHOKE'