Miss. Prom Canceled Rather Than Let Lesbian Student Attend

[Alyrium Denryle]

Well, considering the KKK hates them, that's a sign that they really, really have issues and need to learn how real Christians act.

In my experience, and through a decent knowledge of the march of history.... that is how christians tend to act though. Granted they go farther with it, but it is a rare thing to find christians who do not heap piles of scorn on those who's existence they find offensive (and in earlier days, would literally scorn them to death)

[Darth Wong]

Hey take a look at the Southboro Baptist Church, and tell me how in the hell are they Christian?

By "Christian", I presume you mean "good people". That is not actually what "Christian" means, and in fact, it's a form of bigotry to act as if being "Christian" makes you morally superior to others.

[SAMAS]

To be fair, Christians are supposed to make themselves into better people. Of course, like everything else in The Bible, it's one of those things people tend to take or ignore at their convenience, whether they admit to it or not.

[Darth Wong]

To be fair, Christians are supposed to make themselves into better people. Of course, like everything else in The Bible, it's one of those things people tend to take or ignore at their convenience, whether they admit to it or not.

Every ideology is supposed to make you a better person. I doubt that this person would look at a communist who misbehaves and say "That guy is not a real communist".

[Night_stalker]

Yeah, but my point is that they think oppressing gays is supported by the Bible, when Jesus spoke out against that sort of thing. Boy, it sure must be fun when they get sent to Hell, and ask why they've been forsaken, only to be told" You idiots, I NEVER condoned that sort of actions against gays. Enjoy Hell."

[Shroom Man 777]

But Jesus did condone that sort of action. He condoned all sorts of punishments. The only thing these true Christians are mistaken is that the punishment they inflict on the homosexuals is, by all means, not eternal. If they were true Christians then they would be punishing the homosexuals and other sinners eternally, just like what the Lord Jesus Christ says in the Good Book.

[Simon_Jester]

Every ideology is supposed to make you a better person. I doubt that this person would look at a communist who misbehaves and say "That guy is not a real communist".

He might not, but I would, if that misbehavior involved something like exploiting the poor. A communist who exploits the poor is a shitty communist; a Christian who harasses people for being or doing the 'wrong' things is a shitty Christian.

Both communism and Christianity suffer from the fact that parts of the ideology that tells you what to do go against human nature. It's human nature to secure advantages for yourself (which can lead powerful people to exploit the lower classes even in a communist state), and it's human nature to gang up on undesirable people and make their life hell out of spite (which has happened so many times inside and outside of Christianity that it needs no examples).

So if people follow their nature and lack the self-discipline and intellectual honesty to fight their nature when they know they ought to, they behave poorly. Because it is their nature to behave poorly. Which makes them shitty followers of any ideology that tells them to behave well, and which opens up a huge new level of hypocrisy when they behave poorly in ways that specifically contradict the key teachings of the ideology.

[SAMAS]

To be fair, Christians are supposed to make themselves into better people. Of course, like everything else in The Bible, it's one of those things people tend to take or ignore at their convenience, whether they admit to it or not.

Every ideology is supposed to make you a better person. I doubt that this person would look at a communist who misbehaves and say "That guy is not a real communist".

I've argued with many people who would. Though in my case, I was thinking more along the lines of "Bad" rather than the No True Scotsman bit.

[Samuel]

He might not, but I would, if that misbehavior involved something like exploiting the poor. A communist who exploits the poor is a shitty communist; a Christian who harasses people for being or doing the 'wrong' things is a shitty Christian.

The poor are simply too brainwashed to understand the situation in its historical contest. It is up to the revolutionary party to insure the goals of the proletariat are archieved even if they do not recognize them.

Yeah, you can exploit the poor and be a communist.

it's human nature to gang up on undesirable people and make their life hell out of spite (which has happened so many times inside and outside of Christianity that it needs no examples).

I'm sure "all sinners will suffer in eternal hellfire" doesn't contribute at all, even though it would mean that if you convince the undesirables to reform you are saving them from a fate worse than death.

Honestly, it means that the Christians who say "I will pray for you", while jerks, are more concerned about your welfare than the "agree to disagree".

Which makes them shitty followers of any ideology that tells them to behave well, and which opens up a huge new level of hypocrisy when they behave poorly in ways that specifically contradict the key teachings of the ideology.

This is why there needs to be a review process and expulsion for members who violate the rules.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Yeah, but my point is that they think oppressing gays is supported by the Bible, when Jesus spoke out against that sort of thing. Boy, it sure must be fun when they get sent to Hell, and ask why they've been forsaken, only to be told" You idiots, I NEVER condoned that sort of actions against gays. Enjoy Hell."

But it is... in multiple places (at least according to the christian texts). Leviticus wants the jews to stone us to death (and the christians reject the jewish commentary on the matter which makes that not strictly the case). Romans has god cursing people with "unnatural affections" as a punishment.

To say nothing of the fact that the smallest infraction in christianity is hell worthy and the only salvation is jesus... and in fact after one is saved one's actions do not matter.

[Pint0 Xtreme]

The Bible is chock-full of contradictions, which is expected from text from such primitive societies. As a result, you can justify all sorts of various belief systems regarding LGBT people as Christian-like. The gay-friendly Christians I've come across tend to point out Jesus' acts of kindness towards social outcasts. They try to emulate Jesus' characteristics rather than follow some nonsensical rigid guideline derived from ancient texts.

[The Yosemite Bear]

I once got into an internet discussion with members of the WBC about the "Ministers of Hate", Hell, and Them Vs. Hitler or Torquemada

[Pint0 Xtreme]

The one thing I do like about the WBC though is that they are candid about their thoughts, despite their lunacy. They don't hide their hatred behind some thinly veiled pretense of "protecting" something, like most anti-gay Christians do.

[Flagg]

Well, looks like the school pulled a fast one and was lying to the court and the media the entire time.

What Happened At Constance McMillan’s Prom

Here’s the news, from a source I view as extremely reliable. The prom the school district promised at the country club in Fulton was a ruse. Only seven kids, Constance, and her date showed, and at the same time, everyone else held a “real” prom at a secret location out in the county.

This is all after the school district had represented to Judge Davidson that Constance was invited to a parent-sponsored prom to be held at Tupelo Furniture Market. The school represented that Constance was invited in court filings, testimony, and representations by the school district and its lawyers. In reality, Constance had not been invited, but, based on the representations by the district and its counsel, Judge Davidson denied Constance’s request for a preliminary injunction that she could go to the prom.

The school reneged, or possibly didn’t ever intend to follow through on its representations to the court. The parents didn’t want Constance at the prom and didn’t want to be sued (as they told the Clarion Ledger), and so on Tuesday announced the cancellation of the prom.

But what they’d done was secretly relocated it.

Shortly thereafter, the school’s attorney announced (on Wednesday) that “the prom” was to be held at the Fulton Country Club on Friday. But yet only seven kids showed up.

Meanwhile, there’s a rumor that school officials were directly involved in setting up the “fake” prom.

I have several distinct reactions here. First, there’s a cowardice and dishonesty to this that I would hope even folks who don’t accept Constance McMillan’s right to be herself would find reprehensible. Second, at times it’s crossed my mind that there were some folks out there working in school systems who really loved the kind of petty crap that went on in high school and get far too much pleasure out of reliving it (this is not a comment on school professionals generally!). At second hand, I’m sensing that in the folks making the decisions for the school in Itawamba County. Third, at the back of my mind this whole time has been my experience of being a ninth grader when the Fifth Circuit decided they’d had it, and that it was time for complete (rather than token) integration of public education in Mississippi. One outcome was an immediate cancellation of school-sponsored proms, leading in turn to private proms that, in the white community, became sort of junior auxiliaries for the Ole Miss (or the like) greek system, with all the exclusion and related snottiness that could imply.

I do have this recall of Kent Moorhead (to his credit) as president of the student council a year ahead of me at Oxford High, making a large thing out of trying to bring back school sponsored buses to out-of-town football games (I think he won on that one) and school proms (he lost that one). I’d hope for some student leader to join Constance in telling the grownups how to behave, but I’m not holding my breath.

I wonder what, if any, legal repercussions there will be since the school obviously negotiated in bad faith with the court. Remember kids, it's OK to break one of the 10 commandments in order to keep disreputables out!

[Alyrium Denryle]

Well, looks like the school pulled a fast one and was lying to the court and the media the entire time.

What Happened At Constance McMillan’s Prom

Here’s the news, from a source I view as extremely reliable. The prom the school district promised at the country club in Fulton was a ruse. Only seven kids, Constance, and her date showed, and at the same time, everyone else held a “real” prom at a secret location out in the county.

This is all after the school district had represented to Judge Davidson that Constance was invited to a parent-sponsored prom to be held at Tupelo Furniture Market. The school represented that Constance was invited in court filings, testimony, and representations by the school district and its lawyers. In reality, Constance had not been invited, but, based on the representations by the district and its counsel, Judge Davidson denied Constance’s request for a preliminary injunction that she could go to the prom.

The school reneged, or possibly didn’t ever intend to follow through on its representations to the court. The parents didn’t want Constance at the prom and didn’t want to be sued (as they told the Clarion Ledger), and so on Tuesday announced the cancellation of the prom.

But what they’d done was secretly relocated it.

Shortly thereafter, the school’s attorney announced (on Wednesday) that “the prom” was to be held at the Fulton Country Club on Friday. But yet only seven kids showed up.

Meanwhile, there’s a rumor that school officials were directly involved in setting up the “fake” prom.

I have several distinct reactions here. First, there’s a cowardice and dishonesty to this that I would hope even folks who don’t accept Constance McMillan’s right to be herself would find reprehensible. Second, at times it’s crossed my mind that there were some folks out there working in school systems who really loved the kind of petty crap that went on in high school and get far too much pleasure out of reliving it (this is not a comment on school professionals generally!). At second hand, I’m sensing that in the folks making the decisions for the school in Itawamba County. Third, at the back of my mind this whole time has been my experience of being a ninth grader when the Fifth Circuit decided they’d had it, and that it was time for complete (rather than token) integration of public education in Mississippi. One outcome was an immediate cancellation of school-sponsored proms, leading in turn to private proms that, in the white community, became sort of junior auxiliaries for the Ole Miss (or the like) greek system, with all the exclusion and related snottiness that could imply.

I do have this recall of Kent Moorhead (to his credit) as president of the student council a year ahead of me at Oxford High, making a large thing out of trying to bring back school sponsored buses to out-of-town football games (I think he won on that one) and school proms (he lost that one). I’d hope for some student leader to join Constance in telling the grownups how to behave, but I’m not holding my breath.

I wonder what, if any, legal repercussions there will be since the school obviously negotiated in bad faith with the court. Remember kids, it's OK to break one of the 10 commandments in order to keep disreputables out!

Perjury

[Alyeska]

Words fail me. I am interested to see how this goes down in the courts.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Well, the seven kids there were probably the only seven interesting kids in the school except for Constance and her girlfriend, so she probably had an awesome time, and I love the thought of the school district blowing twice as much money as it otherwise would have on setting up an entire secret prom and then renting a country club for nine people.

[Mystikal]

Well, considering the KKK hates them, that's a sign that they really, really have issues and need to learn how real Christians act.

Westboro is like what the Nazis were to conservative politicians in Germany.

It is plain hate speech to equate those guys to regular Christians. But then, this is SD.net. Should I even bother pointing this out? Oh and the KKK that hates the Westboro isn't even the nutless, pathetic shell, attempts at PCness version, its the real, hardcore, "We're the Ku Klux Klan, not the goddamn Boy Scouts. If you don't like what we preach, don't sign up" KKK-filth. Westboror has issues. And for your info, the town I grew up in is Albertville, Alabama. The band was in the Macy's Parade in either 08 or 09. One of the best in the country. We had gays and for the most part, while shit like calling someone a fag could earn a asskicking, if you were actually gay, most of my peers just went "Oh...saves an awkward moment or two" and went on with it. Minus a bit of horseplay that could be otherwise be conscrued as hitting on him. Then again, the only two guys in my graduation class or within two years of that straight up came out were already quite popular so...


PS: I saw this thread and thought I was having de ja vu from a thread I saw in SB then I saw my response. Has something like that happened to anybody else?

[Ritterin Sophia]

It is plain hate speech to equate those guys to regular Christians.

Given that their version of Christianity is probably one of the most honest ones, I think not. Their creed is indicative of hate condoned and supported by Christianity, no matter how much you want to deny that it does.

But then, this is SD.net.

And you're a retarded twat that thought it was only fair to give credence to the white pride jackasses.

Should I even bother pointing this out?

I know I don't need to, but I thought it would be fun to do so.

Oh and the KKK that hates the Westboro isn't even the nutless, pathetic shell, attempts at PCness version, its the real, hardcore, "We're the Ku Klux Klan, not the goddamn Boy Scouts. If you don't like what we preach, don't sign up" KKK-filth. Westboror has issues.

And? One group of radically conservative bigots hating another group is not some new thing. It doesn't make them 'not conservatives' and 'not Christian'.

And for your info, the town I grew up in is Albertville, Alabama. The band was in the Macy's Parade in either 08 or 09. One of the best in the country. We had gays and for the most part, while shit like calling someone a fag could earn a asskicking, if you were actually gay, most of my peers just went "Oh...saves an awkward moment or two" and went on with it. Minus a bit of horseplay that could be otherwise be conscrued as hitting on him. Then again, the only two guys in my graduation class or within two years of that straight up came out were already quite popular so...

You really don't understand how fucking little SDN puts stock in anecdotes.

[ShadowDragon8685]

Wow. That's pretty...

The word "assinine" barely begins to cover what that school district did.

"Criminal" sounds like a good start, and let's proceed from there to "subhuman".

Although the idea of them setting up two proms and paying for it does amuse me, it's still a fact that what they pulled was out and out fucking shitfaced dishonesty.

[Night_stalker]

The ACLU and the public are going to kill them, and I just know that school just lost all it's federal and state funding.

[Ace Pace]

The ACLU and the public are going to kill them, and I just know that school just lost all it's federal and state funding.

Have a source for that latter statement? Sounds like some rightious wishing rather than anything legal.

[CaptainChewbacca]

I'd bet a lot of funding for the secret prom was done by the wealthy-and-bigoted parents.

[lance]

I'd bet a lot of funding for the secret prom was done by the wealthy-and-bigoted parents.

If it was then the school is pretty much in the clear. "We had no clue about this event, it was a private party that had no affiliation with the school". There were several events like this in the last decade that were 'white only'

[Night_stalker]

The ACLU and the public are going to kill them, and I just know that school just lost all it's federal and state funding.

Have a source for that latter statement? Sounds like some rightious wishing rather than anything legal.

Nope, but I do know the public won't stand for this sort of thing.