The MMA thread (mk1)

[aerius]

Hardy will end up like Fitch and Alves most likely, top of a big pile of guys, but never able to beat GSP. That wrasslin' is just too damn good.

I'm not sure sure about that, his lack of wrestling & takedown defence means all the top guys (Fitch & Koscheck for example) will be able to tool him with ease. Until he can do that he'll be down a couple levels with Swick.

That said, at some point (probably when you're unquestionably down 3 rounds and one of those a 10-8 in a five rounder) you just need to put your head down and just fucking wade in throwing the craziest haymakers you can manage, because you're too gassed to win the fight in the long run and clearly your current gameplan ain't fucking working. Had Hardy just come out and gone Wandy on GSP then he might have had an incrementally better chance, as it was it seems he didn't even want to give himself that chance.

Which is hilarious after all the talk he did on UFC Primetime about how he's a fighter, he's not afraid of GSP and he's got 25 minutes to put fist to face. And what did he do? He wussed out worse than anyone else in the standup. All that talk of "nothing to lose" and this was all he managed to do? As much as he says he was ready and as much as the UFC and everyone else tried to hype it that way, he clearly wasn't. And it showed.

[weemadando]

My hope is that we see Hardy go off and learn how to sprawl from whoever taught Cro-Cop to do it. A loss like this is the kind of thing that can make or break a guy. Look at what the losses to Hughes did to GSP in his first title shot. And lets hope that the UFC, next time Hardy is on a title run match him with guys like Koscheck and Fitch who'll actually test his wrestling before he faces the guy with the best wrestling in MMA.

[Edward Yee]

GSP v Hardy - GSP comes in with a gameplan that everyone knows, but no one can stop. However, I have to wonder how many more times he can do this gameplan before he gets a chat with Dana about "fucking finish the fights", because even for a dominant performance, there was a lot of booing in the later rounds.

Well, there was his own negative view of his performance afterward, and there's video up of his post-match... asking backstage how he messed up the technique enough that Hardy didn't tap or snap. Failure to launch, but not for want of trying.

Shane Carwin might be a national champ but it was Div III or something. I guess we'll see whether Brock's self repair systems work correctly.

Division II; this was briefly a plot point in their verbal feuding. Here's a rundown of their stats.

Palhares has been suspended for 90 days for failing to release a submission. He can say all he wants, but he cranked the shit out of that knee even once the guy had tapped and the ref was in his face. Drwal will be lucky to be walking again in 90 days.

This gets more iffy... according to Bloody Elbow's resident Brazilian poster "orcus," Palhares was not apologetic with Rogan and it was actually Bustamante who put the apology in. Moreover, Palhares is apparently a repeat offender at this, though he used the "prevent feigned taps that the ref can't see" excuse... then outright accused past opponents of greasing. (For an amusing example of what Palhares meant, see Joe Warren vs. Bibiano Fernandes.)

Have a pic of him running for the cage jump even though the door is open.

One final note. Fuck stand ups. Fuck breaking up clinches. As Rogan puts it "If you can't get out of it yourself, then that's your problem".

How funny that you should say this... K-1 bans the Thai clinch

[weemadando]

GSP v Hardy - GSP comes in with a gameplan that everyone knows, but no one can stop. However, I have to wonder how many more times he can do this gameplan before he gets a chat with Dana about "fucking finish the fights", because even for a dominant performance, there was a lot of booing in the later rounds.

Well, there was his own negative view of his performance afterward, and there's video up of his post-match... asking backstage how he messed up the technique enough that Hardy didn't tap or snap. Failure to launch, but not for want of trying.

Every BJJ person I've conversed with has confirmed my suspicions that GSPs BJJ was [relatively of course] shit (I saw holes in it and I'm only a 1 striper). Dan Hardy escaping out the bottom from the back - that's bad. Terrible hip placement on the armbar meant that he didn't have leverage to really crank on that. The kimura was pretty good, but some guys better than I have pointed out that GSP was gunshy and didn't commit to it fully by rolling into the kimura to really crank it.

Shane Carwin might be a national champ but it was Div III or something. I guess we'll see whether Brock's self repair systems work correctly.

Division II; this was briefly a plot point in their verbal feuding. Here's a rundown of their stats.

I'm guessing those are their football tryout stats? Because that broad jump is just insane. I'd be interested to see what he's like now compared to that.

One final note. Fuck stand ups. Fuck breaking up clinches. As Rogan puts it "If you can't get out of it yourself, then that's your problem".

How funny that you should say this... K-1 bans the Thai clinch

Again, having relayed this to people - the universal reaction is: "What the fuck?"

[Edward Yee]

Every BJJ person I've conversed with has confirmed my suspicions that GSPs BJJ was [relatively of course] shit (I saw holes in it and I'm only a 1 striper). Dan Hardy escaping out the bottom from the back - that's bad. Terrible hip placement on the armbar meant that he didn't have leverage to really crank on that. The kimura was pretty good, but some guys better than I have pointed out that GSP was gunshy and didn't commit to it fully by rolling into the kimura to really crank it.

Someone else noted that GSP committed two errors on the armbar he does for his latest Under Armour ad -- thumb wasn't up, legs weren't close. Sure it's a TV ad, but it's indicative of his actual BJJ skill... in contrast, the Whataburger dude in the brown shirt is apparently a Gracie Barra white belt who, like the Tapout guy, was drunk.

Again, having relayed this to people - the universal reaction is: "What the fuck?"

Same place where this guy is K-1 MAX Japan champ.

[aerius]

Every BJJ person I've conversed with has confirmed my suspicions that GSPs BJJ was [relatively of course] shit (I saw holes in it and I'm only a 1 striper). Dan Hardy escaping out the bottom from the back - that's bad. Terrible hip placement on the armbar meant that he didn't have leverage to really crank on that. The kimura was pretty good, but some guys better than I have pointed out that GSP was gunshy and didn't commit to it fully by rolling into the kimura to really crank it.

It is. His mount and back control is horrible, every fighter he's gotten those positions on recently has been able to reverse it or escape. As long as he stays in guard or side control his opponents are pretty much helpless and get beaten relentlessly, but whenever he goes for mount or back control they end up getting out more often than not. Fitch did it, Alves did it, and even Dan fucking Hardy managed it.

With the kimura, GSP's body was facing the wrong way to really finish it, he was already near the end of his range of motion and couldn't yank the arm any further without losing his balance or his grip. He needed to go more into the side control or knee on belly position so he'd have the leverage & range of motion needed to rip the arm right off.

[Edward Yee]

It is. His mount and back control is horrible, every fighter he's gotten those positions on recently has been able to reverse it or escape. As long as he stays in guard or side control his opponents are pretty much helpless and get beaten relentlessly, but whenever he goes for mount or back control they end up getting out more often than not. Fitch did it, Alves did it, and even Dan fucking Hardy managed it.

I'd think that this may hint at GSP managing to overtrain the wrestling... I've heard that some wrestlers tend to be more comfortable in the guard and side control positions, less so with mount or back control. Maybe he's come to pick up this "flaw" along with his awesome?

[weemadando]

The fact that Greg Jackson was yelling at GSP "don't pass the guard" says so much...

As for the kimura, he was in a good spot for it - ideally if he'd sat back a little further towards Hardy's head he could have gotten more leverage and still been fairly safe. But there was a lot he could have done there to really force the issue (my favourite is to dig an elbow under their ribs while "working" to pop the arm up and out, not to mention rolling into the kimura and switching to armbar from there if he didn't tap.

[Edward Yee]

The fact that Greg Jackson was yelling at GSP "don't pass the guard" says so much...

I blame Jackson's pattern of (thinking that he's seeing) guys from his camp/school getting overaggressive and paying for it in their 2009 fights; he cited one of Manny Gamburyan's fights, as well as Evans vs. Machida. He mentioned this in one of the interviews leading up to UFC 108.

EDIT: Turns out that the New Jersey board was aware of Palhares' history of holding submissions past the tap, hence the suspension.

[The Spartan]

Heh... there's someone going into the ring on TUF right now who's from Stephenville (where I went to college) and his name is Cleburn, which is a misspelled version of a largish town near Stephenville. I find this hilarious for some reason.

Edit: Looks like he was eliminated though. His shoulder was injured while being thrown.

[aerius]

French dude was hilarous. "I am going to change what everyone think of fighters from France. I will prove that we are not soft"
Then he gets punched on the ground a few times and quits.

[The Spartan]

That was the biggest wimping out I can remember seeing in a MMA fight.

Granted, I'm not as into it as you guys, but still.

[Edward Yee]

WAR Big Country? Oh, and so much for Gomi as next in line after Edgar. :/

Also, Dana White (while still bashing EA) has officially recanted the threat to blackball any fights in EA Sports MMA... and War Machine got arrested for assault again, although he denies that it was his fault.

[weemadando]

That TUF premiere was great.

Kyle Noke having to be subtitled was great. And boy oh boy did he cut a dude. Wow.

That green hair guy vs emo guy (who calls himself the baddest man in Minnesota) was a showcase for Green Hair. Great boxing and wrestling, but on his back he was shocking. Give him a good BJJ coach and he's a real chance. And that was a great broken nose.

That hella Canadian dude will, like, go real far, eh?

And I think it's pretty clear who at least 2 of the "wild cards" are going to be...

[weemadando]

Also, that door not literally hitting Tito on the arse on his way out will remain one of the greatest disappointments of my life.

[Edward Yee]

Have some NINJA choke

[weemadando]

It's a modified guillotine. The rubber-guard setup is nice, but from what I can see, not essential. That said, I've always got a place in my heart for anyone who is willing to go out of their way to try out crazy and or new moves. Let's face, Brad Imes will forever hold a place in our hearts for having what I believe is still around 20% of the TOTAL gogoplata submissions (he has two, Aoki has two, Diaz has one, Sinosic has one)in MMA to his name.

[Edward Yee]

Audio or video at ~33:30, interview with Greg Jackson, touching on the GSP-Hardy fight.

[weemadando]

A note on the UFC event this weekend.

They're saying that there's a 30% chance of thunderstorms for the day of the event. Which could have two outcomes if it eventuates. 1) It's canned. 2) We get the most epic sight ever, of Anderson Silva fighting in a torrential downpour, being illuminated by flashes of lightning.

Also - WAR Noke. Through to the next round with a quick, simple and safe submission and no damage taken.

[aerius]

Let's just hope the fight is better than the last time when Silva fought a Brazilian grappler. On the other hand I hope it isn't, just because I want to see millions of keyboard warriors suffering a stroke and going spastic on various MMA forums.

[Koolaidkirby]

My prediction for Saturday's even is that all three main fights will be fairly one sided, both champions will retain their belts. (although I think BJ Penn has a slightly bigger chance of losing his)

[weemadando]

It's funny - Maia has a clearer path to a victory than Edgar, in that he can out-BJJ Silva in all likelihood. The problem is getting it to the ground. Edgar has no real advantage over BJ anywhere, but has a better over-all chance of turning on the upset.

Also, this:

[Edward Yee]

Let's just hope the fight is better than the last time when Silva fought a Brazilian grappler.

As long as Maia remembers why he had to go through all this to get a title shot (read: blame Leites), here's hoping.

As for Sonnen... both Maia and Anderson spoke English at the presser just fine.

They're saying that there's a 30% chance of thunderstorms for the day of the event. Which could have two outcomes if it eventuates. 1) It's canned. 2) We get the most epic sight ever, of Anderson Silva fighting in a torrential downpour, being illuminated by flashes of lightning.

Minus the Anderson Silva (and thus 90% of its awesome), seen that already.

[aerius]

If Sonnen's having trouble sleeping, he can ask for a rematch with Maia so he can get choked out again. Fuck does that douchebag ever run his mouth, he must be taking lessons from Tito Ortiz.

[weemadando]

Chael Sonnen is hilarious, for all the wrong reasons. I can't wait for him to join Matt Lindland in the insane lolbertarian fundamentalist political party for a house seat in Oregon.