SD+SB in Middle Earth

[Rob Wilson]

I'd rather have a GPMG than an LMG as this is a defence situation for the deployment of these weapons.

The MG-42 or MG-3 for that matter can be used in defensive positions on a tripod as medium MG well as light portable machine gun on a bipod.
But since the M-60 is based on it's receiver anyway....

Yeas, but the Tripod the FN MAG is simpler, plus the M-60 and FN MAG have the bonus that we have people trained in their use amongst us in numbers, how many are trained in the deployment and maintenance of the MG-42 or MG-3?

[Knife]

Cold Steel make some very nice equipment....thier cavalry sabres are especially nice.....the elven blades appear to combine some of the attributes of most use in a sword, they are light, sharp and seem to be durable....a light sharp sword would certainly make the job of training people to be effective with them a lot easier....

I'm just wondering how esy it's going to be to get hold of Elven blades, even with a secret or otherwise alliance with Rivendell. Cetainly I'd like to take the right weapons with us that we can just in case we can't get a hold of anything we'd like over there.

I would think that we would need to buy or trade for them anyway. We do have people that could start playing with making our own blades but it would be a project that would take a while to produce a sword that would be equal or better than the local ones.

[Cpt_Frank]

Yeas, but the Tripod the FN MAG is simpler, plus the M-60 and FN MAG have the bonus that we have people trained in their use amongst us in numbers, how many are trained in the deployment and maintenance of the MG-42 or MG-3?

Those who served in the Bundeswehr.
*looks around*
*silence*

well in 2 years I will be

[Rob Wilson]

Cold Steel make some very nice equipment....thier cavalry sabres are especially nice.....the elven blades appear to combine some of the attributes of most use in a sword, they are light, sharp and seem to be durable....a light sharp sword would certainly make the job of training people to be effective with them a lot easier....

I'm just wondering how esy it's going to be to get hold of Elven blades, even with a secret or otherwise alliance with Rivendell. Cetainly I'd like to take the right weapons with us that we can just in case we can't get a hold of anything we'd like over there.

I don't think we really should rely on blade weapons. It's fine for those people who want to be trained with them, but in melee situation where using swords would be feasible, you can just as well rely on a M-1911 hi cap.

Again, I'm talking about the scouts or other forces acting outside the base. Everyone else can have it as an optional thing to learn in thier spare time if they wish. It certainly doesn't hurt to have an "extra notch to your bow" so to speak.

[Cpt_Frank]

Again, I'm talking about the scouts or other forces acting outside the base. Everyone else can have it as an optional thing to learn in thier spare time if they wish. It certainly doesn't hurt to have an "extra notch to your bow" so to speak.

Well how big will this force be anyway?

[Rob Wilson]

Yeas, but the Tripod the FN MAG is simpler, plus the M-60 and FN MAG have the bonus that we have people trained in their use amongst us in numbers, how many are trained in the deployment and maintenance of the MG-42 or MG-3?

Those who served in the Bundeswehr.
*looks around*
*silence*

well in 2 years I will be

And we have to deal with those that are now.

Have fun in the Bundeswehr, the G3 is a nice rifle to fire, if heavy.

[Knife]

I'm just wondering how esy it's going to be to get hold of Elven blades, even with a secret or otherwise alliance with Rivendell. Cetainly I'd like to take the right weapons with us that we can just in case we can't get a hold of anything we'd like over there.

I don't think we really should rely on blade weapons. It's fine for those people who want to be trained with them, but in melee situation where using swords would be feasible, you can just as well rely on a M-1911 hi cap.

Again, I'm talking about the scouts or other forces acting outside the base. Everyone else can have it as an optional thing to learn in thier spare time if they wish. It certainly doesn't hurt to have an "extra notch to your bow" so to speak.

I don't know about this, scout in the field with only swords and equivilent weapons. I would think that the scouts would be the best amoungst us and the ability of a rifle should the shit hit the fan would give them the benifit of shock on the enemies part by having them drop like flies by the rifles. Granted, the scouts should not get in those situations but "no plan survives first contact" goes into effect.

At the least, the scouts should have atleast one rifle and pistols to use our tech advantage for them.

[Rob Wilson]

Again, I'm talking about the scouts or other forces acting outside the base. Everyone else can have it as an optional thing to learn in thier spare time if they wish. It certainly doesn't hurt to have an "extra notch to your bow" so to speak.

Well how big will this force be anyway?

I'm thinking a basic unit of 4 with possible hub units of 24 to cover large area's. They would need to be locally recruited and trained. Myself, Knife and Coyote would be the provisional commanders operating under the auspices of Jegs2's Info dictates. Maximum force number of 48-56. Quality not quantity and they would have to be Gooood!

[Cpt_Frank]

Those who served in the Bundeswehr.
*looks around*
*silence*

well in 2 years I will be

And we have to deal with those that are now.

Have fun in the Bundeswehr, the G3 is a nice rifle to fire, if heavy. [/quote]

Unfortunately they're replacing it with the G-36, they use the G3 for training only. By the time I'm out of school it's possible they will all have been replaced
(and fuck the german weapons law! Converted to semi-auto they would make nice cheap rifles, but nooooo they will all be destroyed!!! )

[Rob Wilson]

Again, I'm talking about the scouts or other forces acting outside the base. Everyone else can have it as an optional thing to learn in thier spare time if they wish. It certainly doesn't hurt to have an "extra notch to your bow" so to speak.

Well how big will this force be anyway?

I'm thinking a basic unit of 4 with possible hub units of 24 to cover large area's. They would need to be locally recruited and trained. Myself, Knife and Coyote would be the provisional commanders operating under the auspices of Jegs2's Info dictates. Maximum force number of 48-56. Quality not quantity and they would have to be Gooood!

[Rob Wilson]

Again, I'm talking about the scouts or other forces acting outside the base. Everyone else can have it as an optional thing to learn in thier spare time if they wish. It certainly doesn't hurt to have an "extra notch to your bow" so to speak.

I don't know about this, scout in the field with only swords and equivilent weapons. I would think that the scouts would be the best amoungst us and the ability of a rifle should the shit hit the fan would give them the benifit of shock on the enemies part by having them drop like flies by the rifles. Granted, the scouts should not get in those situations but "no plan survives first contact" goes into effect.

At the least, the scouts should have atleast one rifle and pistols to use our tech advantage for them.

They will (I've already steatd they are th only ones that should have firearms outside the base), but when they are in towns and villages i don't think walking around with a weapon will be the greatest idea. PLus I don't want a massive proliferation of weapons everywhere. The Diplomacy Gaurds will have pistols, ut they are last instance of use only weapons.

Ok it's 17.30 over here that means every school kid and parent is logging onto the net so my connection will be for shit over th next hour. See everyone later.

[Typhonis 1]

hmmm for semi auto fire with decent range would a good old fashioned M1 Garand work?

[Knife]

hmmm for semi auto fire with decent range would a good old fashioned M1 Garand work?

Yes and no, if your going to have the M1 you might as well have the M14.

[SirNitram]

On the whole melee training issue, I actually think we should have some. This is going to sound insane, but I think we should try and make ourselves look like the Numenorians. Dress like the locals, act like the locals, and generally use our superior knowledge of materials science et cetera to enhance Helm's Deep, and generally acting like we're the original builders come back to do maintenence.

Maintaining the image that we are merely advanced locals will give us a bit more time. As far as I know, Sauron's Eye doesn't start looking around until the beginning of the journey, and Saruman's not gone evil on us just yet.. At least no overtly.

Finally, our first order of business after settling in is haul ass to Gondor and find Gandalf. The sooner he and others can be warned ahead of schedule, the better.

[Rob Wilson]

Finally, our first order of business after settling in is haul ass to Gondor and find Gandalf. The sooner he and others can be warned ahead of schedule, the better.

And what proof do we have? Also if we change that, then we no longer know what's going to happen and have thrown away a huge advantage. I'd approach Elrond who is more likely to see th need for less change and setting things on their correct course (plus it would help to explain why he allowed and set the membership of the Fellowship as it turned out to be.

[Knife]

I would imagine that helping Gondor and Rohan would be our best bet. The majority of Mordor's forces are focused on these territories and the more they have to commit, the more they don't have to harrass the ringbearer. Plus the combined armies of Rohan and Gondor could when released from defensive operations, make a push into Mordor and definatly take the heat off of Frodo.

[Rob Wilson]

hmmm for semi auto fire with decent range would a good old fashioned M1 Garand work?

Yes and no, if your going to have the M1 you might as well have the M14.

It really needs to be weapons the instructors are familiar with. I realise this rules out the LSR as I'm probably the only one to have fired it amongst the Training Team, how many (out of Knife, Coyote, Greg, EmperorMing, Perinquus) have fired the GALIL (I've fired one and stripped it) and how many have fired the M14?

[Sea Skimmer]

We don't want MG42's. They waste vast amounts of ammo, and burn though barrels too quickly.

[Cpt_Frank]

We don't want MG42's. They waste vast amounts of ammo, and burn though barrels too quickly.

Hey I want one

Ideally, barrels are changed after 150 rounds of constant firing, which means it can fire up to 300 rounds under combat conditions.
However since our supplies of ammo and spare parts are limited and not enough people are familiar with this gun, we shall leave it out.

[Ren]

Consider then the Lonely Mountian which has all the advantages of Weathertop ( well not the amusement factor ) and none of the drawbacks. Additionally if for some reason the dwarves and Dalemen will have nothing to do with us we can always generate money by plucking it off of Smauges 'diamond waistcoat'.

The Lonely Mountain is as bad as the Mouth of the Isen, it's 750 miles to the North of anywhere we might be called on to fight. In my First post, I said a hill with an Aquifer and place it Centrally, that means we are in Rohan somewhere, this gives us access to the trade routes, places us near Helms deep if needed, we can range to almost anywhere (the furthest we need to go is Lorien and it's closer to Rohan than the Lonely Mountain. We can get to both sides of the Misty Mountains without ever having to cross them and we have huge expanses around us for fields of fire.

Placing it centrally means that everyone's attention is focused squarely on you, the king of Rohan, Saruman, and maybe Sauron (checking up on Saruman) This can really screw us over espically if Sarumen (disguised of course) decided to us his voice to grill us for information, suddenely the situation just got a hundred times worse. Additionaly what about the natives why would they fight with us and what could we give them in trade for food and the like.

The defensive position of the Lonely Mountian is very good and if necissary we can retreat into the mountain itself which held up alot better than Helm's Deep did. Additionaly if we make allies there we get access a wealth of resources including manufacturing, food, trained armys, spy networks, ect.

The Lonely Mountain has no clear advantages, but plenty of disadvantages. The dwarves are isolationist as are the Dales men, the Elves of the Woods have even less to do with the Folkes of ME than the Dwarves do, so why would any of them give us the time of day let alone let us tell them how to use their forces.

You are forgeting the time period, this is set one year before the event's of the Fellowship of the Ring when the dwarves and the Dale's men were not so isolationist, in fact it was common to see dwarves carvans going through the Shire (or at least Bree) to get to their holdings on either side of the mountians. Biblo is preparing for his birthday party and has just placed a large order with the people of Dale and the Lonely Mountian for toys and do-dad's and such.
In a couple of months large (and probably well armed) caravans will start to deliver goods across the mountain for Bilbo's party this would be a perfect chance to get Frodo, the Ring, and the Gandalf far ahead of the books timetable.

The dwarves will give anyone the time of day, take the emmissary(s) of Mordor that got sent to them, the Dwarves eventually told him to fuck off, but they gave him a chance to speak. If someone you have is better at public relations then the the guy from Mordor then the dwarves may be willing to help, additionally several of the important dwarves such as Gloin are directly involved with Bilbo and the Shire and may help us convince the dwarves to aid us. If all else fails we can simply go to the Shire and speak with Gandalf. Once we convince him ( which should be easy ) he can help with the diplomatic relations angle.

[Cpt_Frank]

The defensive position of the Lonely Mountian is very good and if necissary we can retreat into the mountain itself which held up alot better than Helm's Deep did. Additionaly if we make allies there we get access a wealth of resources including manufacturing, food, trained armys, spy networks, ect. *snip*

We will be so far away from the important events that the only thing we could do is sending out small units of 50 people at most since that would quickly be slaughtered since the others needed to protect the base.
If we abandon our base then we've lost our biggest asset and then we're 350 people without safe harbour who will get their asses kicked quickly.
Placing it centrally won't be a big problem since
1. they would have to spot the base
2. if they chose to attack the base, they'd lose.

Helm's deep or weathertop are much much better locations.

[Ren]

The defensive position of the Lonely Mountian is very good and if necissary we can retreat into the mountain itself which held up alot better than Helm's Deep did. Additionaly if we make allies there we get access a wealth of resources including manufacturing, food, trained armys, spy networks, ect. *snip*

We will be so far away from the important events that the only thing we could do is sending out small units of 50 people at most since that would quickly be slaughtered since the others needed to protect the base.
If we abandon our base then we've lost our biggest asset and then we're 350 people without safe harbour who will get their asses kicked quickly.
Placing it centrally won't be a big problem since
1. they would have to spot the base
2. if they chose to attack the base, they'd lose.

Helm's deep or weathertop are much much better locations.

Why does being away from the center of attention limit the possible deployment of troops. In fact being at the Lonely Mountian gives us better deployment possiblities since we can hopefully supplement our forces with dwarves and men allowing us to keep more of our forces at the base or on other missions. You can't win this by stitting at the base daring others to attack it and the base is far from invincible, there are other ways to destroy it other than a direct assult, poisoning the food supplies for example.

Sarumen and Sauron have spies everywhere and Helm's Deep is occupied and must be trading with somewhere for weapons and food stores, word would probably get out rather quickly if we occupied Helm's Deep. Weathertop lacks certian advantages of the Lonely mountian like nearby allied armys and manufacturing centers.

[Cpt_Frank]

[quote="Ren]*snip*[/quote]

The lonely mountain is more than one thousand kilometers away from the action.
How fast do you think we would be able to cross this distance?
If we're able to march 12 hours a day at 5km/h with full equipment and armament, we'd make 60 km per day. That means we'd need 19 days until we arrive where we are needed, and that is not considering the difficult territory we'd have to cross and other nasty things we might encounter.
Additionally, the dwarfs seem to be pretty unreliable allies, who knows what they'd do with the things we have to leave such as the .50 MGs?
Helm's deep would be a nice position, and if they notice that we are there then what are they going to do. Poisoning the food supplies can be detected, and our heavy firepower will ensure that no force Sauron and co could muster at that point of the timeline would be a serious danger to us.

[Ren]

On the whole melee training issue, I actually think we should have some. This is going to sound insane, but I think we should try and make ourselves look like the Numenorians. Dress like the locals, act like the locals, and generally use our superior knowledge of materials science et cetera to enhance Helm's Deep, and generally acting like we're the original builders come back to do maintenence.

Maintaining the image that we are merely advanced locals will give us a bit more time. As far as I know, Sauron's Eye doesn't start looking around until the beginning of the journey, and Saruman's not gone evil on us just yet.. At least no overtly.

Finally, our first order of business after settling in is haul ass to Gondor and find Gandalf. The sooner he and others can be warned ahead of schedule, the better.

The locals probalby know all the other locals in the area so that won't work and you would need a really good story if you were going to pretend to be Numenorians since their island was sunk over 3000 years ago.

[Ren]

The lonely mountain is more than one thousand kilometers away from the action.
How fast do you think we would be able to cross this distance?
If we're able to march 12 hours a day at 5km/h with full equipment and armament, we'd make 60 km per day. That means we'd need 19 days until we arrive where we are needed, and that is not considering the difficult territory we'd have to cross and other nasty things we might encounter.
Additionally, the dwarfs seem to be pretty unreliable allies, who knows what they'd do with the things we have to leave such as the .50 MGs?
Helm's deep would be a nice position, and if they notice that we are there then what are they going to do. Poisoning the food supplies can be detected, and our heavy firepower will ensure that no force Sauron and co could muster at that point of the timeline would be a serious danger to us.

And how would you detect the poisoning of the food supplies, do you know anything about the poisons avalible to Sauron and Saruman? Saruman's voice alone could probably devistate us unless we keep ourselves shut up in the base and then we would lose. As for travel you forgot about the rivers that run down into the sea those would probably greatly aid travel and even if we managed only .5 km a day we would still arrive in the Gondor and Rohan with 14 years to spare. This is assuming extremly slow travel, things will go much faster 19 days assuming horses or river travel so we could probalby get there faster. Remember that Sauron had to split his forces to attack both the Lonely Mountian and Gondor simultanusly there is no reason to do this unless they were close enough to pose some threat to him.