Proposal in California to increase tax on wine by $5

[Gil Hamilton]

My understanding was they simply couldn't enforce those laws in any meaningful way compared to the rate in which it happened, even during campaigns where they actually tried. There is too much interstate traffic and not enough Smokies on the road. Cynically, it seems to me that Harrisburg has put the State Troopers to a much more useful purpose of fleecing motorists for travelling 68 in a 65 zone.

[ShadowDragon8685]

Isn't regulating interstate commerce the sole jurisidction of the Federal government, in any event? Does a state even have the authority to do something like that?

[Knife]

I can't speak for PA, but the situation is very similar in Utah; however the alcohol content is lower as well in Utah. People from Salt Lake and the surrounding high population density area's will go up to Evingston Wyoming to buy high point (regular) beer especially if they're having a party and want a party ball. Though, with an Air Force Base here locally, a lot of people send their military friends up on base to get regular beer tax free as well. Anyway, people regularly drive the four to five hour round trip to get booze from Wyoming and the cops do know it happens and they do hang out around the boarder. Stores with booze are literally set up at the boarder so the cops don't really have to drive into Wyoming to watch Utahan's get booze, they can sit on the Utah side and watch. People still do it, though, since so many do it, the cops can't pull over everyone nor alot enough cops up there to catch em all.

[Ma Deuce]

You know, at a glimpse, it appears as though that's exactly what we've done here in Canada - no proper wine is cheaper than $12, and no, I don't consider coolers sold in pop bottles and marketed as "wine" to count.

Actually, there are more than a few wines (and no, I'm not talking about coolers) you can buy in Ontario for less than $8 per 750 ml bottle, and this is at the government-owned liquor stores that pride themselves on "social responsibility" pricing . Granted, many of these wines are from Ontario, (which get a de facto discount at the LCBO), or South America, which is generally cheaper anywhere: still, the bestselling wine in Ontario is Fuzion, an Argentinian red that goes for $7.45 a pop, so clearly wine that cheap sells in significant volume.

[Gil Hamilton]

I can't speak for PA, but the situation is very similar in Utah; however the alcohol content is lower as well in Utah. People from Salt Lake and the surrounding high population density area's will go up to Evingston Wyoming to buy high point (regular) beer especially if they're having a party and want a party ball. Though, with an Air Force Base here locally, a lot of people send their military friends up on base to get regular beer tax free as well. Anyway, people regularly drive the four to five hour round trip to get booze from Wyoming and the cops do know it happens and they do hang out around the boarder. Stores with booze are literally set up at the boarder so the cops don't really have to drive into Wyoming to watch Utahan's get booze, they can sit on the Utah side and watch. People still do it, though, since so many do it, the cops can't pull over everyone nor alot enough cops up there to catch em all.

Believe it or not, Utah is the only place with stricter liquor laws than PA, and that's only because the Church of Latter Day Saints runs your state. Though Utah has produced some cool stuff because of it, most notably the "Ex-Communicated Mormon Drinking Team".

[Knife]

I know. We also have some cool micro brews like Polygamy Porter.

[Gil Hamilton]

I know. We also have some cool micro brews like Polygamy Porter.

I saw that at a beer festival. "You can't have just one!"

[Flagg]

Isn't regulating interstate commerce the sole jurisidction of the Federal government, in any event? Does a state even have the authority to do something like that?

Yes. States can even outlaw alcohol if they so choose.

[TrailerParkJawa]

You can see the actual proposal for the initiative here on one of the gov't websites:

http://ag.ca.gov/cms_attachments/initia ... 0-0005.pdf

It's interesting to read, this isn't about raising income for California during hard times is a crusade by the proposition author's against alcohol. This doesn't stand a chance of passing, way too many people enjoy a glass of wine or beer with dinner to vote for such a huge increase in taxes.

[jcow79]

I can't speak for PA, but the situation is very similar in Utah; however the alcohol content is lower as well in Utah. People from Salt Lake and the surrounding high population density area's will go up to Evingston Wyoming to buy high point (regular) beer especially if they're having a party and want a party ball. Though, with an Air Force Base here locally, a lot of people send their military friends up on base to get regular beer tax free as well. Anyway, people regularly drive the four to five hour round trip to get booze from Wyoming and the cops do know it happens and they do hang out around the boarder. Stores with booze are literally set up at the boarder so the cops don't really have to drive into Wyoming to watch Utahan's get booze, they can sit on the Utah side and watch. People still do it, though, since so many do it, the cops can't pull over everyone nor alot enough cops up there to catch em all.

The Evanston trip is practically a rite of passage for young Utahans. I can attest to that. What's funny is right as you cross into Evanston the first things you see are the fireworks store, liquor store and porn shop(just up the road bit).

I really don't see this tax as a problem. Yeah, maybe as Bean suggested it shouldn't be so high but these products are the most deserving of this kind of tax. They are recession resilient, they cause a lot of problems that soak up tax dollars to begin with, and it’s not like some states don't already have really high taxes on them already. Utah has high taxes on liquor and people are still buying. Yeah you will get people travelling across the border to buy from neighboring states but that generates revenue as well. People are paying for gas and meals on these excursions. The fact is a lot of people will just pay the tax. I don't even see any point to increasing patrols at state borders looking for "smugglers" because the money spent on increased enforcement, seems to me, would kind of defeat the purpose of the tax.